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Offline BrandonVA  
#1 Posted : 09 December 2011 22:18:57(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
Hello everyone. I've been browsing the forum for a while, great stuff from everyone. I've been collecting Marklin since I first got it for Christmas in the 80s. I've been unpacking stuff which has been stored for a while as I am setting up a new layout.

I have a 7051 crane that was purchased probably in 1989 or so. It has been in storage for about 10 years or so, I just got it back out. When I wired it all up, the motors are having trouble. The magnet works, but when I try and turn it left/right or wind the string up/down, it makes a dull buzzing noise. Almost as if the motor is stuck. I have lubricated it, but not sure where to go next? Maye replace the brushes?

Thanks in advance!
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by BrandonVA
Offline Webmaster  
#2 Posted : 09 December 2011 22:30:02(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
Had the same problem with my old 7051... All "glued" together....

Disassembled the motors (standard M 3-pole SFCM motors) and cleaned the innards of the motor housing(s),reassembled and put a drop of oil where needed.
Especially the motor axle ends that are fitted to the bottom frame structure of the crane seem to be prone to jamming if not oiled...
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Webmaster
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#3 Posted : 10 December 2011 07:09:14(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,665
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: Webmaster Go to Quoted Post
Especially the motor axle ends that are fitted to the bottom frame structure of the crane seem to be prone to jamming if not oiled...



The axle shaft that goes up to the crane cab gearbox is actually a 2 piece item - there is a smaller shaft inside the larger outer shaft, and both of them need to turn freely. If the inner shaft has seized, you will need to take the shaft out of the crane and soak it in a bath of WD40 or CRC or suchlike to try and free it up.

Make sure that the other gearpoints have a drop of oil on them and can turn freely. Also, fit new brushes to the motors, as these may wear or seize, thus preventing the motors from turning.
Offline jvuye  
#4 Posted : 15 December 2011 07:33:03(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Webmaster Go to Quoted Post
Especially the motor axle ends that are fitted to the bottom frame structure of the crane seem to be prone to jamming if not oiled...



The axle shaft that goes up to the crane cab gearbox is actually a 2 piece item - there is a smaller shaft inside the larger outer shaft, and both of them need to turn freely. If the inner shaft has seized, you will need to take the shaft out of the crane and soak it in a bath of WD40 or CRC or suchlike to try and free it up.

Make sure that the other gearpoints have a drop of oil on them and can turn freely. Also, fit new brushes to the motors, as these may wear or seize, thus preventing the motors from turning.


Looks like the way to go!
Just a little additional suggestion, before taking it apart: try a little drop of lighter fluid (be careful, that stuff catches fire easily! Wink ) in each bearing (where you'd put oil normally...) and wait for a couple of minutes.
If it unfreezes the mechanism, just add a little fresh oil and you'll be done!
It has saved me many disassemblies! (the trick works for locos also!)
Good luck, keep us informed!
Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline BrandonVA  
#5 Posted : 06 January 2012 21:42:57(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
I'm sorry not responding more quickly. I have the 7051 apart. The problem was, as suggested, that the screw shafts coming off the motors were seized into the green cast base of the crane. I actually had to let the oil sit a couple of days to get them free (oiling from the other oiling point). I am running it on a test transformer, and one motor is working great in both directions. The other motor works in one direction, but in the opposite directly, the light in the transformer dims and there hum, like a ground fault. I have a M* engine repair manual from the 80s and will see if I can figure it out based on this, but if anyone has suggestions I also appreciate. I don't see any obvious damage to the solder connections, although when removing the cover of the motor to get the drive shaft/copper coils out the whole thing seems very delicate. Any thoughts?

I will also try to come back tonight and post a couple of pictures of the point where the seize was to hopefully help in the future.

Thanks again!
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#6 Posted : 06 January 2012 21:47:55(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,665
Location: New Zealand
Well done! You might want to check and replace the brushes in each of the motors - 2 per motor. If a brush sticks, it could cause the motor to seize.
Offline GSRR  
#7 Posted : 06 January 2012 22:01:22(UTC)
GSRR

United States   
Joined: 01/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,339
Location: USA
In case you don't have the parts list. Does it appear that any of the shafts or gears are out of true or rounded?
File Attachment(s):
7051_explo.pdf (416kb) downloaded 128 time(s).
ETE UserPostedImage ECoS iTrain TouchCab C-Gleis German Era Id & IIIb USA Era IIIb SBB Era III SJ Era IV GC Era V
Offline rjftrains  
#8 Posted : 07 January 2012 05:14:15(UTC)
rjftrains


Joined: 14/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 58
Location: Katonah, NY
If you're having problem with one of the motors operating in one direction, chances are that you may have a bad armature. These armatures are similar to those used in locomotives, but they have a much longer shaft. I may have one in stock and, if not, can order one for you easily enough. The part number is 405530. I have a database that includes approximately 30 different parts for this crane (if anyone is interested). I'm not sure if they are all still available, but the armature certainly is.
Robert Frowenfeld
RJFtrains@aol.com
www.RJFtrains.com
914-232-5546
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Offline BrandonVA  
#9 Posted : 07 January 2012 05:33:37(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
Here are the images of where the shaft was seized. I wanted to share for anyone else having a problem. You can see the hole on green base where the drive shaft (attached to the armature) would go in has a white crust around it, probably dried up lube from years ago. It of course is now clean and moving freely.

Marklin 7051 base
Marklin 7051 Armeture/Shaft

Regarding the reversing, I will have to look into it. I actually just got one on Ebay last week as I suspected I may have damaged one of the armatures trying to get it un-seized. I will try and swap the armature from the 100% working motor to the motor that moves only in one direction to see if that helps. I also am running it as a test with the gearing removed, so there is nothing to cause any resistance against the motor. I'll report back once I get a chance to do this test.

The parts list is great! Thanks!
BrandonVA attached the following image(s):
IMG_0869.jpg
IMG_0868.jpg
Offline BrandonVA  
#10 Posted : 11 January 2012 15:31:58(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
Update on the final solution:

Motor #1 was turning in both directions well. Motor #2 would only turn in one direction, causing the transformer to shutdown in ground fault trying to move in the other direction. It turns out that when I mounted the motor cover back on to motor #2, I slightly pinched one of the wires coming out of the bundle which goes to the controller. This was one of the wires that controlled one direction for motor #2 (grey wire on my model). The pinch removed a bit of the insulation and was causing it to ground out on the motor ground when activated. Some very careful work with a small piece of electrical tape, and everything works perfectly now. Not a very smooth move on my part.

Thanks everyone for helping me get her running again. My son will be thrilled to play with it tonight (he's been asking about it every time he saw it on my work bench in pieces).
Offline GSRR  
#11 Posted : 11 January 2012 19:00:30(UTC)
GSRR

United States   
Joined: 01/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,339
Location: USA
Thanks for the update. Nice to see that you have it working now.



r/Thomas


ETE UserPostedImage ECoS iTrain TouchCab C-Gleis German Era Id & IIIb USA Era IIIb SBB Era III SJ Era IV GC Era V
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