I know this topic has been discussed many times before, but let me ask a few questions.

I have a rather large floor double track layout with most of it covering a 9'x14' area in my family room but also includes a 9'x11' loop thru my dining room (yes, I live alone, so there is no FD to put a stop to my fun ... LOL!!). I have built some structures (the Bonn Station for one) and I working on taking sections of the layout and mounting them to wood modules that will still sit on the floor. The reason for this is to give some good foundation for the station and all of the lighting that goes with it. It will also give me the opportunity to pick up sections for cleaning or temporarily removing parts of the layout when company comes over, if necessary.

I do have four block per loop (total of 8) and a large station area that is setup for two trains to alternate out each track out of the station (4 track station). But I have toyed with adding brake control to at least the station area and maybe the blocks. I want to basically make the modules myself since the commercial products seem expensive considering the circuit inside. So my questions are:

1) I have seen the circuits listed here on the forum and on the web, but I keep hearing to make sure they work with mfx. But i do not see any reference made to whether these circuit diagrams work with mfx or not. Since the majority of my locs are mfx can someone give me a link to a circuit that does work with mfx?? Or at least tell me what needs to be done to the existing circuits so they do work with mfx??

2) This question concerns the length of the braking area. If I understand correctly, the braking delay thru the CS2 is adjusted for each loc to insure it stops before the "stop" section. How long of braking section does everybody use??

3) And if one of the trains has a slider at both ends (i.e. TGV, Thayls, etc) if I understand correctly, the braking area has to be long enough to hold the entire train before braking starts. OMG!! A full length TGV and Thayls will be 8' long and then a section to actually slow down will require one very long station area!!! Is this correct??

Any help on this would be appreciated. I am in the planning stages and getting the parts together to do this project.

Thanks!!

Robert

Thanks for the reply John ...

While waiting to see how others respond, I may try and send an email in the morning to Dr Tom Catherall asking about Marklin's Brake Module and mfx as well as trains like the TGV and Thalys and how they work (or don't work) with brake modules.

For now, I'll have one of my favorite cocktails and a shot of tequila and then head to bed ... ;0)

Robert

I use the "relay approach" whih I find superior, see

https://www.marklin-user...gital/breakmoduleLW.html

I run a mix of Motorla, DCC and mfx-decoders, but the mfx are run on Motorola signal. Pure DC signals via relays work perfectly, very smooth braking without jerks.

Double sliders are normally not connected; the front in travel direction is the only active. However, if train is stopped with a passive slider, waggons slider or what ever on bad places, it may cause problems with most other brake circuits, perhaps all.

Viessmann nowadays have some ready made equipment that works fine along the relay approach, but it's very cheap and easy to build yourself.

/Lars

True.

But the relay principle has no problems with pushing trains. But the slow down rate should be set in the decoder, and in most cases the distance to stop is highly dependent of the initial speed. ESU have some decoder that make harder braking when high speed I think, but have not good experience.

Again, old good Uhlenbrock have some clever, but expensive ideas. With Lissy, an IR diode in each loco sending ID information, and a receiver at break positions, the receiver acts as supervisor. If it is programmed to stop, it sends stop commands digitally, without using computer. IMHO, the best thing with Lissy is that it works together with the operator, cooperation. The operator is not passive, but gets essential support.

Naturally, you may have two receivers; one for slowing down to a preset speed, the other to get a controlled stop distance. Again - the ideas are good, but too expensive for most hobbyists.

BTW, I have been looking at the Bogobit site a little more. They make a number of versions of a brake module. Their "Classic" which they say works with mfx includes a current limiting circuit that eliminates the need for a transition track section. They sell them as a completed board, as a kit, and just the PCB. They also claim to give you a schematic when buying one. Unfortunately they don't sell to the States only to the European Community. Sounds interesting ...

Robert

Hi Jørgen,

Do you know if the braking, feedback and track occupancy modules would work on Z gauge stuff? Obviously there isn't a centre rail so I assume I'd have to use isolated sections of the main rails.

Thank you,

Pete

I agree John. As I stated I am going to put some of my floor layout on wood modules that will still sit on the floor and would like to add some of this functionality. This seems to be a good time to try it since I can hide most of the wires under the modules. Kind of use it for a test bed for whenever I try and make a normal permanent layout. Right now the floor layout is much larger than I could do with a permanent layout. With some modifications that I have made to the station area, it should be able to hold full length TGV and Thalys trains. The downside to the floor layout is that I am limited to a single level. Maybe when I start the work I will start a post on the building of my floor modules.

Robert

Well,

the DC signal actually comes from Lenz, who designed the original Märklin digital system. And to a degree it's contained into the DCC spec as well.

In DC world the polarity of the rails decide the direction of travel; if two different locos travel on the same track, they alwas go the same direction. The DCC spec says, that if a DCC decoder under (digital) way detects a switch to analog DC, with the direction that would cause it go on, it just continues. However, if the direction should be reversed, it does *NOT* do that, but stops. It seems to be up to the manufacturer to decide if the stop should be sudden, or smoth (as we want it). European manufacturers like Lenz and ESU have a tendency to make the brake smoth.

But in DCC also have designed broadcast signals. You can buy a brake signal generator, or a booster with that functionality, that just transmits signals "any locos in this line, please stop". Of course this may cause transition problems when going from one section to another; a switching principle like the one I prefer also for 3R is preferred here also.

There also exist "smarter"="cheaper" ways from different manufactures. I don't remember if it was Trix, or Lenz or something, that allowed for a single diode coupling, requesting again that the decoder detects the kind of signal correctly.

So, IMHO it's not enough to say you run 2R och even Märklin Z; it all comes to what decoders are used.

/Lars