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Offline Piggy  
#1 Posted : 13 June 2011 01:00:47(UTC)
Piggy

Australia   
Joined: 08/05/2009(UTC)
Posts: 590
Location: Sydney
Hi All,

I decided to mount an ESU function decoder into my 43832 "Silberling" cab control car, as well as interior light in all three cars in the consist. First I just wanted to control the interior light in the consist, however suddenly the idea of controlling the head/tail light and separate controls for the interior light in each of the 3 cars became a small project. This is the functions I got now:

F2: Headlight/taillight on/off
F3: Interior light in cab control car on/off
F4: Interior light in 1/2 class car on/off
F5: Interior light in 2 class car on/off

I this current simple version the function decoder controls 3 relays. The first relay switches the power for the head/tail light PCB in the cab control car, the switching between head and tail light is still controlled mechanically without any changes made.
Interior light in the cab control car is driven directly from the function decoder.
The trick was get two function outputs through the normal one pole current conducting coupler, without adding separate decoders in each car. Two relays controls the power to the conductive coupler, one relay with a diode provides the positive half of the from power provided by the slider, and another relay the negative half. The cars controlled this way are then fitted series diodes an capacitors to avoid flickering. This direction of diode selects the channel.

Piggy attached the following image(s):
DSCN3465.jpg
Regards
Kenneth
CS1 update - K & C tracks - German Era 3B & 4, with some Swiss and Austrian visitors. - My Layout
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Piggy
Offline kimballthurlow  
#2 Posted : 13 June 2011 04:15:05(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,764
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi Kenneth,

Congratulations, nice job.

I have recently completed a driving trailer for my steam hauled local passenger train (so it is what we call a push-pull set), and I wish to install the front lights on the trailer.
I would use 12v mini bulbs from a centre pick-up.

So would this type of function decoder do the job of switching the lights on and off?

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline Piggy  
#3 Posted : 13 June 2011 15:20:39(UTC)
Piggy

Australia   
Joined: 08/05/2009(UTC)
Posts: 590
Location: Sydney
Hi Kimball,

The function decoder I used is ESU's 52620 function decoder, it has 6 outputs, each 250mA, total 500mA max. It runs both Märklin-Motorola and DCC protocols. The price here is around €20 incl. GST. Basically it is a Lokpilot without the motor controller part, so it's cheaper and a bit smaller.
Regards
Kenneth
CS1 update - K & C tracks - German Era 3B & 4, with some Swiss and Austrian visitors. - My Layout
Offline river6109  
#4 Posted : 13 June 2011 17:23:25(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,875
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Kenneth,
I'm trying to do the same as you are but I haven't been able yo find a solution.
Any chance of getting a close up how you connected the diodes to the relays.
My idea was getting the switching action from the light function and than couple, e.g. Aux 1 also to the relay switching it over as the light function switches over.


Another way of connecting your function decoder is to have the light function coupled to the same light function as your loco decoder and use the other functions for extra tasks as you've done.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Piggy  
#5 Posted : 13 June 2011 17:46:46(UTC)
Piggy

Australia   
Joined: 08/05/2009(UTC)
Posts: 590
Location: Sydney
Hi John,

Here is the schematic, I'm considering making solid state version bases on the same idea.
Piggy attached the following image(s):
Function_sch.GIF
Regards
Kenneth
CS1 update - K & C tracks - German Era 3B & 4, with some Swiss and Austrian visitors. - My Layout
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Piggy
Offline anthpao  
#6 Posted : 13 June 2011 19:28:48(UTC)
anthpao

Greece   
Joined: 20/01/2010(UTC)
Posts: 125
Location: Thessaloniki, Greece
There is much easier way to do this, without those relays.
You take the Lokpilot fx decoder and you connect the pickup shoe and the wheels to the red and black wire of the decoder. So the decoder has power.
Now you connect the white wire aand the blue one to the white bulb or LED (you need a 1kOhm resistor for LEDs), you connect the yellow wire and the blue one (the blue is the common +) to the red bulb or LED.
You connect the green and the blue to the interior lights if you have.
Now the only thing you have got to do is to program the decoder.
Use the same address as the Lokomotive that is used with these wagons.
Reassign the function keys so that you don't have a conflict with the locomotive's functions (use for example F10 to F15)
And finaly change the Front/rear lights to light when the train travels in the opposite direction.
Offline Piggy  
#7 Posted : 13 June 2011 21:19:32(UTC)
Piggy

Australia   
Joined: 08/05/2009(UTC)
Posts: 590
Location: Sydney
Hi Anthpao,

Thanks for your comments. I fully understand what you are saying, however my goal was to achieve two independent function outputs over a single pole conducting coupler. If you have a look at the schematic in post #5, you see the power to conductive coupler (J3) is controlled by two relays (K1 & K2) and two diodes. This way makes it possible to control whether provide the positive and/or negative part of the AC cycle is powering the consist via the coupler. The two cars connected to the cab control car are then “programmed” by placing a diode in series the LED bars, the direction of diode then controls the “channel”, positive or negative. Each car has it’s own ground spring, these cars would also work in any other consist with power provided from the pickup shoe, thus being compatible with the standard Märklin use of conductive couplers. I add a capacitor in each car to avoid flicker, since each car is only gets power from half a cycle.

I fully agree with you and John, regarding the programming – re-assigning the function, and changing the address to same as loco normally used in the consist. However I kept the mechanical switch in front truck for changing between head and tail –light, since I felt it’s doing the job well, and keeping it this way makes it more independent of loco used.
Regards
Kenneth
CS1 update - K & C tracks - German Era 3B & 4, with some Swiss and Austrian visitors. - My Layout
Offline river6109  
#8 Posted : 14 June 2011 03:08:48(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,875
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: Piggy Go to Quoted Post
Hi John,

Here is the schematic, I'm considering making solid state version bases on the same idea.


This is great, thanks a million.

What are you saying, when changing the loco or cab carriage you also have the independent light function and you are using an independent function decoder number.


John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline kimballthurlow  
#9 Posted : 14 June 2011 10:57:33(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,764
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: anthpao Go to Quoted Post

...Now the only thing you have got to do is to program the decoder.
Use the same address as the Lokomotive that is used with these wagons.
....


This is what I would like to do, except that I will use the trailer car with at least 3 different engines.

So I guess I program this decoder on a programming track, allocate an address, and choose on/off funtions for F whatever. Is that correct?

I am ignorant of these electronics, because all my decoders usually come installed by a factory in Goppingen, Germany.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline pa-pauls  
#10 Posted : 14 June 2011 15:06:55(UTC)
pa-pauls


Joined: 08/06/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,843
Location: Norway
Nice job Kenneth ThumpUp
Pål Paulsen
Märklin Spur 1 Digital, epoche 3
Offline Piggy  
#11 Posted : 14 June 2011 17:42:38(UTC)
Piggy

Australia   
Joined: 08/05/2009(UTC)
Posts: 590
Location: Sydney
Thanks Pål,

I just want to add a couple more details about some of parts I used, many times train projects.

Relays very small: Tyco Electronics, TSC-112L3H000, RS components #493 6745, UK price £1.81 ex. VAT
http://uk.rs-online.com/...=4936745&x=0&y=0

LED interior light from www.hufing-tronic.de warm white 230mm LED PCB with 7 LEDs and adjustable with trim pot, I bought them for for around €5 on Ebay.de , that is 25% of Märklins price, but there no plast bracket or double adhesive included. By they lots LEDs models.
Regards
Kenneth
CS1 update - K & C tracks - German Era 3B & 4, with some Swiss and Austrian visitors. - My Layout
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