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Offline Kaspar  
#1 Posted : 27 April 2011 16:02:19(UTC)
Kaspar


Joined: 09/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 28
Location: norway
Hi,
I've got a Mobile Station 1 and wondering how to hook up properly. I would like to continue using my turnouts analog. The user manual for MS indicates that a second transformer is needed- from the diagram this appears to be a seperate circuit alltogether, so can I use my old blue analog transformer to run the turnouts?

Kind of worried to hook things wrong, the manual actually uses bomb icons to indicate bad setups Scared

cheers
Kaspar
Offline dntower85  
#2 Posted : 27 April 2011 17:03:40(UTC)
dntower85

United States   
Joined: 08/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,218
Location: Shady Shores, TX - USA
Yes you can use your blue transformer to operate your turnouts, just be sure the circuits stay separated.

All yellow wires from turn out motors connect to the yellow output of the blue transformer then connect the blue wires to the switch button boxes, and the brown wire from the transform to the side of the switch box. They should be on there own circuit now unless

To be safe leave the MS1 and the MS transformer unplugged from the track and test the switches, If you want to be very safe use a multimeter and make sure you have no voltage to the track outer and center rails when switching the turnouts. As long as there is no voltage from loose wires or miss wired turn out motors then your ok.

I'm guessing that you have plastic c-track
Note: if you have metal M-track or K-track with lanterns on the turnouts, the light on the lantern ground is wired back to the track and would create a half circuit form the blue transformer to the MS1 and could damage it.
DT
Now powered by ECoS II unit#2, RocRail
era - some time in the future when the space time continuum is disrupted and ICE 3 Trains run on the same rails as the Adler and BR18's.
Offline hemau  
#3 Posted : 27 April 2011 18:56:12(UTC)
hemau


Joined: 09/01/2007(UTC)
Posts: 589
Location: The Netherlands
In my experience it's no problem to have a common ground (brown) for MS1/CS1 and another (blue or grey) trafo powering the turnouts, including light of it. As long as you ALWAYS have a separate dedicated power source to your MS1/CS1 and you have NO CONTACT FROM THE OTHER TRAFO with the center studs.
This goes for C, M and K track.
Regards, Henk
C and M track; CS1R and 2 MS
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by hemau
Offline kbvrod  
#4 Posted : 27 April 2011 19:34:17(UTC)
kbvrod

United States   
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,597
Location: Beverly, MA
Hi all,
It is part of the beauty of digital.

Dr D
Offline Joseph Meiring  
#5 Posted : 27 April 2011 20:21:40(UTC)
Joseph Meiring

South Africa   
Joined: 27/12/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,157
Location: Western Cape Cape Town
Hi Darrin, Henk, Dr. D.....please help!!
I have a starter set (29539) with MS2, and 36VA transformer, with 2 feeder wires connected to the C track. The set has 2 turnouts with mechs and decoders already installed.
I also bought 2 "C to M" track pieces, to join up with my existing M track layout - with about 18 turnouts+lanterns, and 9 uncoupler tracks, using the 6647 grey trafo, and 7072 control boxes.
I want to have 1 digital layout, with a mix of C and M track, for a while anyway......
Am I right in assuming I must first disconnect all the the existing feeder track wires (red) from trafo 6647, but I can keep the brown wires connected?
And the yellow wires stay in the 6647 trafo?
What worries me is that I will now have 2 transformers connected to my digital layout...Is this "allowed"??
I haven't connected anything yet......I will rather wait for some "sure" answers!
Joe
Offline kbvrod  
#6 Posted : 27 April 2011 20:43:00(UTC)
kbvrod

United States   
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,597
Location: Beverly, MA
Hi Joe,all,

>I have a starter set (29539) with MS2, and 36VA transformer, with 2 feeder wires connected to the C track. The set has 2 turnouts with mechs and decoders already installed.<
OK,....


>I also bought 2 "C to M" track pieces, to join up with my existing M track layout - with about 18 turnouts+lanterns, and 9 uncoupler tracks, using the 6647 grey trafo, and 7072 control boxes.<
What does the 6647 do?Feed the tracks and turnouts/uncouplers/lanterns?


>I want to have 1 digital layout, with a mix of C and M track, for a while anyway......
Am I right in assuming I must first disconnect all the the existing feeder track wires (red) from trafo 6647, but I can keep the brown wires connected?<
If that is what is feeding the tracks,yes.Common ground is what makes 3-rail layouts easier for wiring.


>And the yellow wires stay in the 6647 trafo?<
What are they wired for or to?I would use this(for now) to power your turnouts/uncouplers/lanterns.

>What worries me is that I will now have 2 transformers connected to my digital layout...Is this "allowed"??<
Yes and no,you need to power the MS2 and the tracks,depending on the power draw(#loks,etc.)you may need to get a booster and a separate transfo for the rest of your layout.

Dr D

Offline David Dewar  
#7 Posted : 27 April 2011 21:20:40(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,341
Location: Scotland
Joe. Go easy here. Do not attach two transformers to your layout. Some where in the booklet that came with your starter set it says that experimenting is expensive. Why not just keep the M track completely separate from the C track digital section and when you are ready get more C track with digital turnouts which I believe is where you want to end up.
Joining everything together can be done but only if you know exactly what you are doing otherwise keep your two sections apart.

dave
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 27 April 2011 21:33:50(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,265
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Joe Meiring Go to Quoted Post
What worries me is that I will now have 2 transformers connected to my digital layout...Is this "allowed"??

This is "allowed". And more than just "allowed": it's the only easy way to operate analogue M track turnouts when driving with a Mobile Station.

Common ground is fine, but keep external power away from the centre rail.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline hemau  
#9 Posted : 27 April 2011 21:56:24(UTC)
hemau


Joined: 09/01/2007(UTC)
Posts: 589
Location: The Netherlands
Joe, no worries. I am operating M and C track and digital and old/fashion electromagnetic switch controlling for years with 2 transformers (a switching PS 90W from ESU for the CS1R and a 6647 for some k83 controlboxes).

As long as you keep power to centre studs and to switches separate and you use a single separate transformer or power supply for your MS there are no problems.

Connect your analog steered switches with a connecting box to the yellow output of the 6647, connect the brown to the ground (rail) of the track and to the controlbox for the switches. Blue wires from switches go to controlbox ofcourse.

Alternative is to control all switches with some k83´s. You can power them separate via the 6647 if you wish.
EDIT with a MS1 you can´t operate a k83. Sorry.
Regards, Henk
C and M track; CS1R and 2 MS
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by hemau
Offline dntower85  
#10 Posted : 27 April 2011 21:59:05(UTC)
dntower85

United States   
Joined: 08/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,218
Location: Shady Shores, TX - USA
Originally Posted by: Joe Meiring Go to Quoted Post
Hi Darrin, Henk, Dr. D.....please help!!
I have a starter set (29539) with MS2, and 36VA transformer, with 2 feeder wires connected to the C track. The set has 2 turnouts with mechs and decoders already installed.
I also bought 2 "C to M" track pieces, to join up with my existing M track layout - with about 18 turnouts+lanterns, and 9 uncoupler tracks, using the 6647 grey trafo, and 7072 control boxes.
I want to have 1 digital layout, with a mix of C and M track, for a while anyway......
Am I right in assuming I must first disconnect all the the existing feeder track wires (red) from trafo 6647, but I can keep the brown wires connected?
And the yellow wires stay in the 6647 trafo?
What worries me is that I will now have 2 transformers connected to my digital layout...Is this "allowed"??
I haven't connected anything yet......I will rather wait for some "sure" answers!
Joe


http://medienpdb.maerkli...inweis_fremdspannung.pdf
To me I would be safe and not have any connection between that accessories and the track.
DT
Now powered by ECoS II unit#2, RocRail
era - some time in the future when the space time continuum is disrupted and ICE 3 Trains run on the same rails as the Adler and BR18's.
Offline Johnvr  
#11 Posted : 27 April 2011 22:03:21(UTC)
Johnvr

South Africa   
Joined: 03/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,269
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Joe, when can I come and see your new kit ?

Regards,BigGrin
John
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Offline Kaspar  
#12 Posted : 27 April 2011 22:04:02(UTC)
Kaspar


Joined: 09/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 28
Location: norway
Ok, thanks for all the comments. There seems to be some divergent opinions though... To clarify my question , I have an all-metal M layout. If I understand correctly the issue is to keep the centre rail away from the "blue trafo" power. However doesn't one run the risk of a short when ex a train derails in a turnout, bumping into the light fixture? Would such a short kill my MS?

If I were to pursue a completely separated circuit would removing the lightbulbs in my turnouts do the job?

Kaspar
Offline hemau  
#13 Posted : 27 April 2011 22:09:16(UTC)
hemau


Joined: 09/01/2007(UTC)
Posts: 589
Location: The Netherlands
Originally Posted by: Kaspar Go to Quoted Post
Ok, thanks for all the comments. There seems to be some divergent opinions though... To clarify my question , I have an all-metal M layout. If I understand correctly the issue is to keep the centre rail away from the "blue trafo" power. However doesn't one run the risk of a short when ex a train derails in a turnout, bumping into the light fixture? Would such a short kill my MS?

If I were to pursue a completely separated circuit would removing the lightbulbs in my turnouts do the job?

Kaspar

That would be a great accident, and how would the slider keep contact with the centre studs and get at the same time in touch with the power of the lantern. I don´t see that happen (less likely than a failure in a nuclear power plant IMHO).
C and M track; CS1R and 2 MS
Offline hemau  
#14 Posted : 27 April 2011 22:14:31(UTC)
hemau


Joined: 09/01/2007(UTC)
Posts: 589
Location: The Netherlands
Originally Posted by: dntower85 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Joe Meiring Go to Quoted Post
Hi Darrin, Henk, Dr. D.....please help!!
I have a starter set (29539) with MS2, and 36VA transformer, with 2 feeder wires connected to the C track. The set has 2 turnouts with mechs and decoders already installed.
I also bought 2 "C to M" track pieces, to join up with my existing M track layout - with about 18 turnouts+lanterns, and 9 uncoupler tracks, using the 6647 grey trafo, and 7072 control boxes.
I want to have 1 digital layout, with a mix of C and M track, for a while anyway......
Am I right in assuming I must first disconnect all the the existing feeder track wires (red) from trafo 6647, but I can keep the brown wires connected?
And the yellow wires stay in the 6647 trafo?
What worries me is that I will now have 2 transformers connected to my digital layout...Is this "allowed"??
I haven't connected anything yet......I will rather wait for some "sure" answers!
Joe


http://medienpdb.maerkli...inweis_fremdspannung.pdf
To me I would be safe and not have any connection between that accessories and the track.

This advice is not to have 2 or more controllers at the same time connected to the tracks. That was always a to be avoided situation also in the analog times to prevent volts transforming down and up again or have differnt phases conflicting, and it is fatal to digital equipment. But that is not what is discussed here, this is about steering of separate electromagnetic equipment.
Regards, Henk.
C and M track; CS1R and 2 MS
Offline Webmaster  
#15 Posted : 27 April 2011 22:15:15(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,161
The lantern housing is connected to the common ground, it's the yellow connection that is dangerous...

The integrated C-track decoders are connected to the MS1 (red-brown) track current, while old M solenoids are to be connected to yellow-brown via the 7072 switch button box.
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Webmaster
Offline kbvrod  
#16 Posted : 27 April 2011 22:19:59(UTC)
kbvrod

United States   
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,597
Location: Beverly, MA
hi Kaspar,all,

>Ok, thanks for all the comments. There seems to be some divergent opinions though... To clarify my question , I have an all-metal M layout. If I understand correctly the issue is to keep the centre rail away from the "blue trafo" power. However doesn't one run the risk of a short when ex a train derails in a turnout, bumping into the light fixture? Would such a short kill my MS?

If I were to pursue a completely separated circuit would removing the lightbulbs in my turnouts do the job?<

Separate ALL lights to it's own transformer(s).Turnouts,signals, whatever.An old 280 will do.

Dr D
Offline H0  
#17 Posted : 27 April 2011 23:08:11(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,265
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: dntower85 Go to Quoted Post
http://medienpdb.maerklin.de/systems/hinweis_fremdspannung.pdf
To me I would be safe and not have any connection between that accessories and the track.


Always do it like the M* instructions tell you.
Here are the instructions for the Railroad Grade Crossing 74920:
Code:
http://medienpdb.maerklin.de/product_files/1/pdf/74920_betrieb.pdf

(copy URL into the address field)

See page 13 for the line-up with MS and second transformer (common ground at the outer rails).

The Caution leaflet only tells to keep external power away from the centre rail. It does not tell you not to use accessories.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline flappydaffy  
#18 Posted : 29 May 2011 01:22:14(UTC)
flappydaffy


Joined: 29/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5
Location: Belgium
Hi all,

I currently have a M-track railway and bought a Mobile Station 2. I tried to connect the turnout to a second transfo (the old one) to use them with 7272 switchboxes. The turnouts work just fine, the trains run, but the lights in the turnouts don't light... Does anyone know why and how to correct this??

thanks guys
Julian
Offline H0  
#19 Posted : 29 May 2011 07:43:07(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,265
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: flappydaffy Go to Quoted Post
Does anyone know why and how to correct this?

Electric current requires a closed circuit to flow.

Did you connect the brown wire of the accessories transformer (the "old one") to the track?
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline flappydaffy  
#20 Posted : 29 May 2011 09:55:12(UTC)
flappydaffy


Joined: 29/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5
Location: Belgium
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi!
Originally Posted by: flappydaffy Go to Quoted Post
Does anyone know why and how to correct this?

Electric current requires a closed circuit to flow.

Did you connect the brown wire of the accessories transformer (the "old one") to the track?


hi Tom

Thanks for the idea. I didn't, the wiring sheme I was shown at my hobby shop didn't showed that connection so I just assumed it would be bad for the transformer... Won't this interfere with the current sent to the track by the new one? Should I use 2 feeding rails or kan I use just one?

cheers
julian
Offline H0  
#21 Posted : 29 May 2011 20:28:15(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,265
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: flappydaffy Go to Quoted Post
Won't this interfere with the current sent to the track by the new one?

No problem. But don't make any connection between the "old one" and the centre rail.
See the 74920 manual (link posted above). Different solenoids, but same problem.

Originally Posted by: flappydaffy Go to Quoted Post
Should I use 2 feeding rails or kan I use just one?

Theoretically this doesn't make a difference. When the layout grows you'll need more than 1 feeder track anyway.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline flappydaffy  
#22 Posted : 29 May 2011 23:50:51(UTC)
flappydaffy


Joined: 29/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5
Location: Belgium
thanks TOM

it works great :)

cheers
julian
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