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Cars of other makes on Märklin track - Exchanging wheelsets
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Offline Elukka  
#1 Posted : 17 April 2011 03:56:24(UTC)
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Elukka


Joined: 28/01/2011(UTC)
Posts: 124
Location: Finland
I recently picked up a cheap Hobby series Piko tanker to see how it would run on my layout. As the wheel flanges are built a tad differently to Märklin cars, they bump around a bit and occasionally derail on switches. Some long Roco coaches I have (Anyone want to buy a couple slightly older Roco TEE/Intercity coaches, incidentally? :P) consistently jump off the rails on some sections of my track.

I don't wish to limit myself to Märklin's offerings, so the obvious answer is to change the wheelsets. I borrowed the wheelsets of a Märklin stake wagon and they fit the Piko tanker perfectly.
So my question is, how do I figure out which type of wheelset a particular car has and where would I buy a more Märklin-compatible substitute as a spare part?

By the way, that tanker is fairly nice. NEM pockets and close coupler mechanisms in a 15 euro hobby wagon!

Edit: Duh. Yeah, I forgot to mention which track. I'm using C-track.
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Offline mike c  
#2 Posted : 17 April 2011 04:35:45(UTC)
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mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,898
Location: Montreal, QC
Elukka,

you did not specify which kind of Maerklin track you were using. If you are using classic M Track, you may have some issues with rolling stock made by other companies. If you are using K- or C- Track, you should have far fewer problems. Roco makes AC wheelsets for it's rolling stock, which should enable your Roco coaches to operate on M Track without problems. The key to determining which wheelsets are appropriate is determining the corresponding axle type and wheel diameter for each axle. Most modern coaches and cars have standardized axles. Earlier ones had different shaped ends depending on the design of the bogies and how the axles were set in the bogie frame. The standard diameter today is probably 11mm, but some coaches and cars may be 9mm or smaller (ie Roco EWII SBB, Rola cars, etc). In most cases, the instructions for each car/coach will list the replacement part number and the catalogues usually mention the wheel size and replacement part numbers too.

The other thing to keep in mind when using other companies' rolling stock is that lighter weight rolling stock that is positioned in front of heavier material may be more likely to tip due to force exerted on it from the rest of the train. It is always better to place lighter weight coaches or cars at the rear of the train.

Regards,

Mike C
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Offline H0  
#3 Posted : 17 April 2011 08:30:04(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Elukka,

Roco offers AC wheelsets for freight cars and coaches. The leaflets in the boxes should indicate the spare part numbers you need.
I'm not sure about Piko, but I think they also offer AC wheelsets.

Some dealers replace wheelsets free of charge (when you specify that with your order) or include additional AC wheelsets for a small fee.

I use R1 only in some sidings. I normally don't have problems with DC wheelsets on the R2+ areas of my layout (all C track).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#4 Posted : 17 April 2011 08:59:44(UTC)
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kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,669
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi Elukka,

Please check the axle lengths.

Most European stock that I have comes with axles of either 24mm or 25mm across the tips of the pin-points.
You will need a vernier caliper or micrometer to measure this.
The length will effect how well they run in the axle boxes. If they are too long, they will be tight.
Fleischmann make both lengths in AC version.
Frankly they are the best for converting non-Marklin stock.
I use C track.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline Brakepad  
#5 Posted : 19 April 2011 10:11:13(UTC)
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Brakepad

France, Metropolitan   
Joined: 25/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 633
Location: Montlouis sur Loire, France
Hi,

Usually, adjusting distance between wheel inner faces will be OK and 2-rail cars will not derail in 3-rail layouts. The difference should be just 0,2 to 0,3 mm, as inner distance between wheels is 14,3 mm in 2-rail world and just 14 mm in Märklin world. Adjusting this will solve the issue and you won't need to change wheelsets.
check out http://maerklin-back-on-track.blogspot.com if you like to see how old Märklin locos are brought back into life! (in spanish by the moment)
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Offline RayF  
#6 Posted : 19 April 2011 10:39:35(UTC)
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RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,839
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: Elukka Go to Quoted Post
I recently picked up a cheap Hobby series Piko tanker to see how it would run on my layout. As the wheel flanges are built a tad differently to Märklin cars, they bump around a bit and occasionally derail on switches. Some long Roco coaches I have (Anyone want to buy a couple slightly older Roco TEE/Intercity coaches, incidentally? :P) consistently jump off the rails on some sections of my track.

I don't wish to limit myself to Märklin's offerings, so the obvious answer is to change the wheelsets. I borrowed the wheelsets of a Märklin stake wagon and they fit the Piko tanker perfectly.
So my question is, how do I figure out which type of wheelset a particular car has and where would I buy a more Märklin-compatible substitute as a spare part?

By the way, that tanker is fairly nice. NEM pockets and close coupler mechanisms in a 15 euro hobby wagon!

Edit: Duh. Yeah, I forgot to mention which track. I'm using C-track.


The Piko website usually gives you an idea of which wheelsets to get for running on AC layouts. In this example below you have to order part number 56060 for a set of two replacement wheelsets.

http://www.piko.de/produ...;child_id=0&id=57731
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Tex  
#7 Posted : 23 April 2011 22:02:36(UTC)
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Tex

United States   
Joined: 30/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 276
Location: Houston, Texas
I recently purchased four Brawa DB " Reco " passenger cars that look great. I requested AC wheelsets but the coaches came without them. I had some derailments when I tested them on my M track layout. Have set them aside until the Brawa 2181 AC wheel sets arrive and it could take a long time. I'm told that the wheelset exchange is no problem in Germany, however, ordering from a dealer in the USA is a different matter

Tex
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Offline kbvrod  
#8 Posted : 23 April 2011 22:29:58(UTC)
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kbvrod

United States   
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,597
Location: Beverly, MA
Hi all,
As our estimable Dr Eisenbahn would point out,it is the gauge of the wheels that causes the derailments.And it is slight.
I have been replacing wheelsets and allGlare need different wheels,....*sigh*

Dr Dirt
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Offline ruhaake  
#9 Posted : 28 May 2011 22:08:30(UTC)
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ruhaake


Joined: 09/04/2010(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: Norway
Hello.

My experience with running non Märklin rolling stock on my C-track layout is that it is not a wheelproblem usually.
Instead of replace the wheels take a look at the couplings. On shorter items the Märklin closecouplerheads are fine. When you try it on long vehicles it may not work so good.
Then you should try to put on the Roco 40395 Universal coupler. Those works perfect for me on stuff that tends to not stay on the tracks.ThumpUp
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#10 Posted : 29 May 2011 04:01:21(UTC)
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kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,669
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: kbvrod Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,
As our estimable Dr Eisenbahn would point out,it is the gauge of the wheels that causes the derailments.And it is slight.
I have been replacing wheelsets and allGlare need different wheels,....*sigh*

Dr Dirt


Yes, true, replacement of wheel sets can be problematic, but I have consistent success by following a few procedures, which are listed in a separate topic.

You might be interested in reading this:
https://www.marklin-users.net/forum/yaf_postst19092_HO-wheel-measurements-tables.aspx


regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline jvuye  
#11 Posted : 29 May 2011 07:37:27(UTC)
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jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: Brakepad Go to Quoted Post
Hi,

Usually, adjusting distance between wheel inner faces will be OK and 2-rail cars will not derail in 3-rail layouts. The difference should be just 0,2 to 0,3 mm, as inner distance between wheels is 14,3 mm in 2-rail world and just 14 mm in Märklin world. Adjusting this will solve the issue and you won't need to change wheelsets.


Yes , this is the answer IMHO.
Simple and inexpensive
The exact "trouble free" measurements are 13.8mm for the Märklin World, 14.3 mm for the 2-rail world.
The perfect measuring tool (71604) is found here:

http://81.169.175.242/fo...cd834ecae4aa92ce910d2146

Techniques to adjust spacing may differ from one manufacturer to the other.
Simple: ROCO : just push them together with the above tool as a gauge inserted between the wheels' flanges.
Complicated : older Rivarossi three piece axles, where one needs to shorten one of the sleeves, then readjust spacing to specifiction.

But so far , 99.9% success rate as long as you don't have NMRA low profile flanges

If you have questions on specific brands/designs make a picture and ask!

If you cars still have derailment problems after adjusting wheels' spacing, check for interfering couplers, bending KKK mechanisms or bogeys' Wink interference!
Good luck
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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