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Offline Oscar  
#1 Posted : 30 December 2010 21:02:11(UTC)
Oscar


Joined: 25/11/2003(UTC)
Posts: 783
Location: ,
Example 1.
Some weeks ago I bought the 37580 Gläserne Zug. The manual indicates that the worm wheel needs to be oiled, not greased. That's a first. Makes me wonder in what way this particular worm wheel differs from others, I mean, all other worm wheels of all recent models that I have seen require grease (the familiar Trix tube). Grease makes more sense in a worm wheel than oil. I think the manual is wrong.

Example 2.
This week I bought the 37211 V140 001. It's manual says that the model has a worm wheel that needs to be greased. But there's not a worm wheel to be found in this model. The DCM motor is driving the axles through a set of gears, the good old way. The drawing of the interior of the loco is completely wrong.

I hope that these are mere incidents and not typical, but it is curious that I buy 2 new models in 4 weeks time, and one manual raises severe doubts and the other one is simply wrong.
Offline RayF  
#2 Posted : 30 December 2010 21:19:41(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,705
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
I've found the quality of the manuals variable. Some of my most recent models actually have very good manuals, with everthing spelt out as it should be with spare part numbers quoted where relevant, and even including the exploded diagram and list of parts in the back.

On the other hand some others are very rudimentary with only general insructions, and generic diagrams which often don't match the loco.

I wonder who writes these? Is there a seperate department at Marklin responsible for this, or is it sub-contracted out?
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline petestra  
#3 Posted : 30 December 2010 21:54:00(UTC)
petestra

United States   
Joined: 27/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 5,689
Location: Leesburg,VA.USA
Hi, I would definately contact Maerklin by email and ask to be sure. They have always answered me back quickly. I have written to them in German as well as english.
Cheers,PeterSmile
Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 30 December 2010 21:58:14(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,795
Location: DE-NW
Oscar,

your examples could be "copy'n'paste" errors. I have some old M* locos were they recommended oiling the wormdrive. I think I saw the Trix grease for the first time in the second generation of the BR 185 manuals.
That's your chance to test the response time of the Märklin support.

As I wrote in another thread: the Trix version of the V 140 has a motor with a bell-shaped armature. Obviously they copied an image from the Trix manual that makes no sense in the Märklin manual because the Märklin version has a DCM.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline H0  
#5 Posted : 30 December 2010 22:08:11(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,795
Location: DE-NW
In old manuals they wrote:
"Under no circumstances should transformers
rated for an input of 220 volts be connected
to the American 110 volt household current
system."
Obviously the translator didn't understand the German text ...

In new manuals this makes more sense:
"Use only transformers rated for your local household
power.
Do not under any circumstances use transformers rated
for 220 volts or 110 volts."

And in very new manuals they write:
"The operating instructions and the packaging are a component
part of the product and must therefore be kept as
well as transferred along with the product to others."
I'm waiting for the uproar of those who dispose the packaging.

Some manuals incorrectly state: "Addresses that can be set: 01 – 80"
In some new manuals it's: "Addresses that can be set:
1-80 (Control Unit 6021/Mobile Station 60651/652)
1-255 (Central Station 60212/213/214/Mobile Station 60653)"
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Webmaster  
#6 Posted : 30 December 2010 22:24:35(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,017
H0 wrote:
"Do not under any circumstances use transformers rated
for 220 volts or 110 volts."


Just wonderful...LOL LOL LOL
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 30 December 2010 22:46:40(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 13,795
Location: DE-NW
Webmaster wrote:
H0 wrote:
"Do not under any circumstances use transformers rated
for 220 volts or 110 volts."


Just wonderful...LOL LOL LOL

That line is not funny (with 230 V in Europe and 120 V in the USA this is their way of saying "do not use blue transformers anymore").
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline atilla  
#8 Posted : 30 December 2010 23:31:00(UTC)
atilla


Joined: 13/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 381
Location: Richmond, Virginia
I think that Marklin does not put a lot of effort into their manuals. This results in spotty performance. My favorite was a graphic showing a flat bladed screwdriver in the general vicinity of an engine and text that tabs should be carefully pried in order to remove the body. Of course there was no indication of where those tabs were and that there was also a screw. Marklin manuals are like the "Pirate Code" in the Disney movies, "More of a guide line". I'd say that the quality of Marklin documentation explains quite a bit of the activity in this Forum.
Offline DaleSchultz  
#9 Posted : 30 December 2010 23:45:36(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,453
On the other hand the graphical instructions that came with the 2205 K-track is a stunning piece of work. It is clear, and works in all languages. The one I have on my wall was printed in November 1996.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline TimR  
#10 Posted : 31 December 2010 00:19:16(UTC)
TimR

Indonesia   
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,752
Location: Jakarta
atilla wrote:
I'd say that the quality of Marklin documentation explains quite a bit of the activity in this Forum.


Let's just say that there are lots of "undocumented features" that is best served by this wonderful forum.

I think it goes without saying that this forum goes a long way to help contribute to Marklin ownership satisfaction, and that Marklin had a lot to thank for that.

Now collecting C-Sine models.
Offline sudibarba  
#11 Posted : 31 December 2010 02:33:15(UTC)
sudibarba

United States   
Joined: 28/07/2006(UTC)
Posts: 873
Location: Augusta, GA USA
I have always been amazed at how little info is in the the books considering many of the loks cost $400 to $600.
A $25 electronic item often has a large booklet.
A little more about the history of the item would be welcome.

Eric
Offline DaleSchultz  
#12 Posted : 31 December 2010 03:14:23(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,453
producing documentation is very expensive, and producing translations makes those expenses explode. I am sure that is why most loco booklets are generic with just the cover different. Some of the special models such as the Beautiful Lady came with an nice booklet, but that was really before the internet age had really taken root like we know it today. Now you can get detailed and color images, videos etc. of any loco you want, with just a few clicks, I would rather not have them spend money resetting that information and having it translated. Also items that cost $25 may be produced in the tens of thousands and need a booklet full of warnings to wear safety glasses and three pairs of underpants so the legal aspects and economics are not the same.
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline RayF  
#13 Posted : 31 December 2010 11:13:00(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,705
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Actually, I find that most modern electronic products have very bad instruction manuals, and usually refer you to a website or an enclosed CD ROM for more information, which often turns out to be just as bad.

My kids, and I believe most of the present generation, don't actually look at instruction manuals. They seem to know instinctively how to work everything!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline Goofy  
#14 Posted : 31 December 2010 14:44:37(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,324
Webmaster wrote:
H0 wrote:
"Do not under any circumstances use transformers rated
for 220 volts or 110 volts."


Just wonderful...LOL LOL LOL


Nuts!!!
That´s just what i have to write...
Nuts!!!

LOL
Offline Oscar  
#15 Posted : 31 December 2010 17:21:16(UTC)
Oscar


Joined: 25/11/2003(UTC)
Posts: 783
Location: ,
DaleSchultz wrote:
Now you can get detailed and color images, videos etc. of any loco you want, with just a few clicks, I would rather not have them spend money resetting that information and having it translated.

I agree with that. However, the manual that Märklin puts in the box with the loco has to be free of errors. And sometimes it just isn't.
Offline David Dewar  
#16 Posted : 31 December 2010 18:31:59(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,964
Location: Scotland
It costs nothing to get the spelling and grammar checked before printing. From what I have seen of the booklets that come with the locos I could run them off on my computer for a few pence each. Just looks like copy paper done in black & white.
The Instructions with the CS2 which can cost about the same as some of the locos has a well produced colour booklet but the content is pretty basic. Brawa is not much better but does have useful part numbers(even for coaches) and any Roco I have would have been better if written by somebody who speaks reasonable English.
My Canon camera comes with an excellent and well written book and cost little more than a loco.

Ray. I agree that the kids today seem to be able to work anything straight from the box.

I think a better booklet would give the buyer the feeling of value. My 37977 came in a nice wooden box and very well packed but with the usual booklet which looks cheap compared to the loco etc.

dave
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline atilla  
#17 Posted : 01 January 2011 20:55:36(UTC)
atilla


Joined: 13/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 381
Location: Richmond, Virginia
I used to design and develop commercial software that shipped world wide. I can attest to the fact that getting things spell checked and verified for accuracy is not easy. But, when you are selling to people who can change a percentage of the company's bottom line, there is a lot of corporate will to get the job done. Usually, those folk demand some evidence that you are making improvements and that you are making progress. If one of your executives has to go on bended knee to a "customer/decision maker", they like to have evidence that they have 1) heard the complaint, 2) take it seriously, and 3) are working to improve things.

I wonder if Marklin measures itself on its documentation and regularly reviews the effectiveness of their efforts? I wonder if we could help? Suppose we decided to review every manual with every locomotive in 2011 for 4 simple criteria: Spelling, grammar, and accuracy, and usefulness? I wonder if Marklin would find that useful and helpful?
Offline David Dewar  
#18 Posted : 02 January 2011 00:44:12(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 6,964
Location: Scotland
Being cheaply prints booklets they just need to print the first one and ask somebody who has a good knowledge of English to read it to ensure it is correct. Then print the rest. This would also require to be done for other countries as well and that I expect is where the problem lies. A decent spell check would not allow some of the stuff I read from Roco. If I pay £400 for a loco a booklet made from cheap copy paper does not inspire the customer regarding quality of the product.

dave
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline Drongo  
#19 Posted : 02 January 2011 11:38:40(UTC)
Drongo

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,057
Location: Sydney, NSW
It's not just Marklin with useless manuals.

I bought a new Lokprogrammer and printed out the manual from the CD - luckily my new printer has duplex capability. This manual was a useful as tits on a bull. I then went online to ESU and discovered that a new manual has been written and this so far seems to be a lot better.

As for writing instruction manuals and talking about costs, etc. - I believe that the instructions is a crucial part of the product and a manufacturer that doesn't spend time and effort in this department is really doing an injustice to their product.
Take it easy . . . . or any other way you can get it !!!!
Website - www.simplesite.com/gregstrain
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