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Offline mike c  
#1 Posted : 25 December 2010 01:34:55(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,899
Location: Montreal, QC
The SBB EC 90 Coaches are available in both 1:87 (Roco) exact scale and 1:100 (Maerklin). The coaches come as 1st Class (Apm), 1st Class Panorama (Apm Panorama) and 2nd Class (Bpm). Here is a list of the models available:

Maerklin (1:100)
4365 Apm Panorama
4367 Set (Apm, Apm Panorama (2), WRm (Mitropa) and Bpm (2))
4368 Apm
4369 Bpm
43670 Set (Apm, Apm Panorama, WRm (Elvetino) and Bpm (3)) (EC Riviera dei Fiori)

Roco (1:87)
44768 Apm Panorama (with Preiser Figures)
44769 Apm Panorama
44770 Bpm (various models 44770.1/etc with different coach numbers)
44771 Apm (various models 44771.1/etc with different coach numbers)

Other suitable coaches:
Liliput 388614 EWIII (ex-Swiss Express) Restaurant (WRm) coach used on trains to Germany until 2005
Roco 44669 Am Eurofima coach in Eurocity livery. Used on various routes alongside the EC 90 coaches, including the EC Iris, EC Bavaria (Zurich-Munich) and other consists. The same model exists in 1:100 from Roco under the number 44356 and from Maerklin with the number 4266.

These new coaches have formed the backbone of the SBB Eurocity Fleet since their introduction in 1993. They have also seen use in Intercity and Interregional trains within Switzerland. I thought that I would take this opportunity to present a few prototypical consist recreations that can easily be reproduced for any layout:

EC Rembrandt (Chur-Zurich-Basel-Amsterdam)
Re 4/4II - Apm - Apm Pano - Apm - WRmz (DB) - Bpm - Bpm - Bpm - Bm235 (DB)

The SBB leased DB class WRmz 132 diners for this train and for the EC Berner Oberland, running from Interlaken to Amsterdam via Basel and Cologne. The train composition was very similar, but without the DB Kurswagen at the end.

EC Ratia (Chur-Zurich-Basel-Hamburg)
Re 4/4II - Apm - Apm - WRm - Bpm - Bpm - Bpm
For this train and the EC Matterhorn (Brig-Basel-Wiesbaden), the SBB used EWIV or EWIII Restaurant coaches that could be used on the Swiss and German train networks. The SBB WRm could not be used on Belgian, Dutch or French systems.

EC Iris (Chur-Zurich-Basel- Bruxelles)
Re 460 - Apm - Apm - Bpm - Bpm - Bpm - Bpm
This train was not always equipped with a restaurant coach in Switzerland. For the section Basel-Luxembourg-Bruxelles, a SNCB restaurant coach was added at Basel.

EC Riviera dei Fiori (1:87) (Basel-Chiasso-Milano-Nice Ville)
Re 460 or Re 6/6* - Apm - Apm Pano - WR(FS)** - Bpm - Bpm - Bpm

* Re 6/6 were commonly used for this and other EC trains on the Gotthard until around 2000-2001 when the Re 6/6 were assigned to the new Cargo division.
** For this consist, I used 1:87 coaches, including Roco 45628 FS Restaurant Coach. This train ran daily for many years. For 1:100, use the Maerklin Set 43670, which reproduces this consist, except that the restaurant coach is a SBB WRm, which was used on this train around 2004-2005.

EC Transalpin (Basel-Zurich-Arlberg-Vienna)
Re 4/4II - Apm - Apm Pano - WRm - Bmz*** - Bmz - Bmz - Bpm

*** This consist mixed SBB EC coaches with modern Eurofima successor coaches of the OBB and was one of the better known routes before being replaced by the new Railjet consist a few weeks ago.

Interregio (eg Chur-St. Gallen or Locarno-Luzern)
Re 4/4II - Apm - Apm - Bpm - Bpm - Bpm - UIC Bm - EWIV B

Such consists can be found in domestic Interregio trains. Normally, these trains contain several EC 90 coaches, some frequently still painted in the Cisalpino colours and a few already repainted in the new SBB livery (white with black stripe). The same goes for the EWIV IC coaches, which can appear in the original IC livery or the new ICN colours.

For the trains running from Interlaken or Brig, it would also be possible to pull these coaches with a BLS Re 465, Ae 4/4 or Re 4/4 for the run on the BLS network (Interlaken or Brig to or from Bern)
For those modelling these consists outside of Switzerland, here are a list of some of the appropriate loks that could be found pulling these trains.

DB: 101, 120, 103
OBB: 1016, 1116, 1216, 1044
FS: E444, E444R, E656
SNCF: SNCF TEE Lok (BB 15000?) (Basel-Luxembourg)
SNCB: Various Classes (Luxembourg to Bruxelles)

An overall view of consists using these and other SBB coaches (and other trains running in Switzerland) can be found at http://www.reisezuege.ch/reisezuege/index.php

I hope that this info is of use and helps you build a prototypical consist for your layout.
Have a merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

Regards

Mike C

Edited by user 25 December 2010 17:48:45(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#2 Posted : 25 December 2010 02:20:25(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,865
Location: CA, USA
Mike,

This is really interesting, and really helps me! I have the 4367 and 43670 sets, but didn't know what other types of prototypical consists were out there.

Now a question; are the 4366- Bpm grey door- play into this? (or other trains)

Thanks and have a great xmas!
SBB Era 2-5
Offline mmervine  
#3 Posted : 25 December 2010 02:42:36(UTC)
mmervine

United States   
Joined: 30/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,884
Location: Keene, NH
John-did you mean 4266?
Märklin C-track, Marklin Digital & ECoS, multi-era French & Swiss
http://www.ete-ene.org/m...mervines-layout-gallery/
Offline AJ  
#4 Posted : 25 December 2010 03:02:50(UTC)
AJ


Joined: 26/06/2010(UTC)
Posts: 138
Location: Singapore
Mike... very helpful. Thank you. I am expanding my 43670 to be a longer but correct consist and trying to find the missing cars.

Alok
Offline mike c  
#5 Posted : 25 December 2010 04:19:46(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,899
Location: Montreal, QC
5HorizonsRR wrote:
Mike,

This is really interesting, and really helps me! I have the 4367 and 43670 sets, but didn't know what other types of prototypical consists were out there.

Now a question; are the 4366- Bpm grey door- play into this? (or other trains)

Thanks and have a great xmas!


Hi John,

(and happy Xmas). The 4366 was a Bpm (Bpm 79) that was painted as a test in two different liveries. One side was a modified version of the already in use EWIV Intercity livery. The other side was a gray and black livery that eventually was adopted for the RABe EC conversion of the RAe TEE trainsets and the SRm coaches used for the Wilhelm Tell Express on the Gotthard. This colour scheme was eventually adopted as the standard for the new Eurocity coaches, which we are discussing in this thread.

Another model of the same Bpm coach, this time in it's official livery for domestic service, matching the EWIV Intercity coaches, was released as model 42163.

The actual coach differs from the model, which was in essence a DB Apmz (4224) repainted in SBB colours. Maerklin has also adapted existing models to recreate the Bpmz of the OBB and the BH of the FS among others.

I have seen photos of the so-called Chamaeleon (Chameleon) coach on the Zurich-Munich route and on the Loetschberg route. The photos had the coach in a consist with SBB coaches in the Orange Eurofima livery. I do not know if this coach remained in the experimental livery long enough to actually run alongside the new coaches in the EC livery.

Regards

Mike C
Offline mike c  
#6 Posted : 25 December 2010 04:26:10(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,899
Location: Montreal, QC
mmervine wrote:
John-did you mean 4266?


Mike,

the 4266 was a Eurofima Am (A9 VSE/Avmz) in the new SBB EC colours. The problem with that model is that the black band along the bottom of the shell is not correct. The coach has black SBB CFF FFS markings, which may have existed on one coach, but the main series had white inscriptions. The Maerklin model has one additional flaw. The inscriptions on the skirting (the frame of the coach) are for a SNCF coach and not for one of the SBB.

The Eurofima Am were used with the new EC90 coaches on routes where they determined that a compartment coach was in demand. All of the new coaches were open seating concept. The Eurofima coaches also proved to be popular on the Zurich-Munich route and other international routes with diesel loks as the roof mounted ventilators on the new EC coaches had a problem with pulling the diesel exhaust into the coach, where the Eurofima Am did not due to it's side mounted air intake. The SBB decided that the first coach behind the lok should be one of the Eurofima coaches, which prolonged their use by the SBB.

I understand that the fleet of Eurofima coaches has been sold to the DB, which will likely refit them and use them alongside the similar Avmz already in use in that country.

Regards

Mike C
Offline mike c  
#7 Posted : 25 December 2010 04:35:08(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,899
Location: Montreal, QC
AJ wrote:
Mike... very helpful. Thank you. I am expanding my 43670 to be a longer but correct consist and trying to find the missing cars.

Alok


If you want to expand your 43670, here are a couple of suggestions that you can consider:

If you are modelling SBB, you can add a few Swiss coaches to the train, as they would normally attach a coach or two for the run from Basel to Chiasso. These coaches could be EWIV (42166 or 42162), Bpm (42163) or even a 4066, which would be prototypical, as the EWII were shorter than the Eurocity coaches. A 24cm EWII next to a 26cm EC coach looks prototypical.

The "Riviera dei Fiori" also occasionally contained FS coaches. You could therefore take coaches from the 41893, 41895 or 41896 Sets as add-ons. I like the idea of the 41896 as this gives you a baggage coach and a 2nd Class Eurofima in XMPR colours. It also occurred from time to time that the "Riviera dei Fiori" would include a SBB or FS coach in the Cisalpino livery, so you could use the Apm from the 26544 Cisalpino Set or the 41897 Bmz coach.

If you are running the train with a FS Lok, you will probably want to have more FS coaches.

An alternative if you can find it would be the Roco 44356, which is Roco's 1:100 model of the Eurofima Am of the SBB. The Roco model, as opposed to the Maerklin one (4266) had the correct white inscriptions and the correct livery. It would probably look very nice next to the EC coaches.

The final decision is up to you.

Regards

Mike C
Offline AJ  
#8 Posted : 25 December 2010 10:29:56(UTC)
AJ


Joined: 26/06/2010(UTC)
Posts: 138
Location: Singapore
Mike, thank you once again Smile . The final decision I guess would also be a function of which ones of the cars below I can find on ebay or with the dealers. I run the consist with an SBB lok (red Re460). A baggage car would indeed be nice. Let me look up things on ebay.

Alok
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#9 Posted : 25 December 2010 11:41:56(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,665
Location: New Zealand
Thanks Mike, interesting read.
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