It was suggested by Mike C in another topic that I start a new thread to discuss this issue, as it does not just relate to the 26557 TEE Bavaria Set. See previous discussion:-

marklin-users.net forum » Reviews » Loco Reviews » Märklin 26557 Re 4/4 I & 3 coaches, trainset "TEE Bavaria"

Last week I was about to buy the above mentioned set, but I was concerned about the quality of the motor and electronics now being fitted by Marklin in place of the previous Softdrive Sinus installation. ** To be correct, none of the second series RE 4/4 I have had Softdrive Sinus in the first place, but the 'downgrading' is happening across the Marklin range....

2010 Models no longer with Softdrive Sinus
37010 Class 110 Epoch V Red
37044 Re 4/4 I Epoch IV Green **
37403 Class 140 Epoch V Red
39904 Class 294 Epoch VI Red
26557 TEE Bavaria Set **
29500 DB Mega Starter Set where the E50 appears to have also been downgraded from Softdrive Sinus to the new 'mystery motor'

I first became aware of the potential problem when I read a review of the 37010 in the November edition of the UK magazine Continental Modeller. Photos of the internals show a much simplified circuit board with no ICs at all.
Others have commented that the motor in the 37044 behaves like the 36XXX series TRAXX Hobby locos. A photo on the Stummi forum looks worryingly like it is the same motor. The motor in the 36XXX Hobby Locos looks like a Scalextric motor to those of us in the UK.

I briefly had a Trix 21337 Karlsruher Commuter Trian pack from 2009, and examining the motor and electronics in that, found they differed only slightly from the Marklin 26410, there were certainly no running quality issues. But, a year later things appear to have changed again. Couple this with the fact that the new in-house MFX Decoders need to have a 330 uF Capacitor installed to ensure smooth running and I am a worried man!

I love Marklin and just cannot understand how a company can spend years perfecting the Softdrive Sinus system to then appartently bin it in order to reduce costs and bring the Marklin and Trix product lines more in line. If this is the future path and the new motor is indeed cheap disposable rubbish, then I think 2010 may well be a line in the sand for me. I will continue to collect Marklin, but I will be looking for Softdrive Sinus, C Sinus and, of course, DCM.

Finally, a plea, can we try and keep this thread to a technical discussion, accept each others views, and try and share as much information and photographs as possible.

I am still open minded enough to be persuaded that it will be alright and it is worth buying a 26557 TEE Bavaria Set, but for around Euro 360 it is going to take a lot to convince me.

Regards
Ashley

It's swings and roundabouts, isn't it?

The cheaper motors are maintenance free, and if they do need replacing, only cost a few euros. Whether the standard of performance is severely degraded is difficult to quantify. Some of my cheap hobby models run more smoothly and quietly than most of my DCM locos.

I too lament the loss of the SDS motor, but it's possible that they have become an evolutionary dead end. we'll have to wait and see.

IMHO SDS (or more commonly brushless motors) are the way for the future. It is the electronics manufacturers (decoder makers) that are lagging behind. I think that if a company brings out a decoder with a native SDS interface, instead of the extra SDS driver PCB required now, it is going to be economical to produce SDS locos.

So SDS will either never go away completely, or come back in the future. Whether the motors will still be called SDS, that is something else.

Bert

Found it.....




I didn't try to disassemble anything, but if people want a closer look at the motor, I can try to see if I can carefully move the circuit boards.

Edited by moderator 11 January 2011 10:41:36(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

If they get rid of DCM motors I'll be happy. I like the new brushless motors like most other manufacturers use. They are quiet and compact so you still have a steam drivers cab.

Hello Ashley,

this was discussed already long time ago, when this change took place.

The first signals arrived during the insolvency and the announcement of the Insider modell 2010. Already this model has no SDS inside.

The explantion is very simple. Despite of they have spent a lot of money in the development of the SDS, for a company in insolvency it does not make sense to run 2 different motor tecnologies in parallel (Märklin/Trix). This is a luxus that Märklin could not effort anymore.

So Pluta decided to do rationalisation by taking one motorisation for both companies. And since the SDS showed some weaknesses when running in analogic modus (a lot of Trix customers still run analog), the logical consequence was to switch on the "Glockenanker" motor for all locomotives. This gives synergies in development and sourcing of the components and helps to save a lot of money.

So now, when Märklin is running out of stock step by step on the SDS, the locos will switch to Glockenanker motors.

I'm not happy about the decision, because the SDS was really a good motor and completely silent.

I buyed the Trix E50 and E41 and converted them to Märklin system. At slow speed the Maxxon motors are really noisy and disturbing, despite of the running characteristic are good.

But I can understand the decision of Märklin. I prefer have Glockenanker and Märklin coming out from insolvency than having SDS and Märklin going bankrupt.

rgds

Stephan

So they prefer to sacrify Marklin to Trix....3 rails system to 2 rails system ?
Thanks to 2 rails system !
Thanks to Trix !!

What you mean by "Glokenanker" motors ?
Those crappy Mabushi motors we find on every cheap model of any brand ?....or similar ?
....untill now it doesn't seem to be those former Trix Bell shaped motors ( those one also are disappearing)

However I agree with you : according to some engineers specialized into small power-systems, the range of Maxxon motors we find sometimes on models is far to be so good...I already have mentionned what he says : "...Maxxon only have a good communication & advertising department....." Which was an allusion to their famous advertising campaign " Maxxon motors were on the moon"( because they had special partnership with the NASA ...don't expect that it is the same R&D department )

Anyway : because it shows an effort at least from the manufacturer, I still prefer a labellized " Coreless Maxxon motor" than any "Mabushi & Co" motor...."Coreless" shows at least a special technology.....despite that we may be wondering if it has some sense to couple a "coreless rotor" with a flywheel.. ..( Inertia and digital control are not always good friends...specially some kinds of "parasitic inertia"...depending also of what kind of motion you need...but that's another subject....) ....

In reply to Stephan,

Yes I know this subject has been discussed before, but I and others have reason to believe that things are changing yet again. It appears that Glockenanker (Bell-Shaped Armature) motors are not being used in these new ex-SDS models. We know very little about what is being fitted. Are they 5 Pole? I think so based on the symbols in the Marklin sales literature. Are they skew-wound like Roco motors? I have no idea as they seem to be sealed unlabelled units.

Others talk of cheap disposable motors being easy to replace, but are they really? To get to the motor on my 37309 I have had to fully disassemble the model removing every single screw. Once you have done this, how easy is it going to be to source the motors as a spare? If, as we suspect, Marklin are fitting a number of different can motors, how easy are these going to be to find after c.500 hours of runing time?

For some reason the E50 in the Mega Startset has a higher priced motor than that in the 37044 and 26557. Often thse motors do not show in stock on the Marklin database. In respnse to Henrik, I don't think you are saving lots of Euros by Marklin not fitting SDS, because the price of the locos and sets is the same as for the SDS ones.

I purchased the Hobby Series 26544 Cisalpino Set with the Traxx Loco and 3 Coaches for Euro 159, the 26557 Bavaria Set is around Euro 200 more than this for what may well be the same motor. Accepting that the Re 4/4 I is a more detailed loco, but where did the rest of the Euro 200 extra go?? This is the point I am trying to make.

I am glad Marklin was saved from bankruptcy of course, but if necessary I would rather pay more for the most addvanced electronics and motors. I would be quite happy to pay another Euro 50 for the 26557 if it meant SDS.

Regards
Ashley

For digital control & smooth operation the ideal motor is : no commutator, no flywheel,..And signal should be a sinusoidal signal (instead of square signal), ....

We have a very good relationship with the Maxxon Technical Rep heare in Australia (He is a memeber of the Forum) and has tried to source compatable Maxxon motors for us. AS the Maxxon Motors that Maerklin use are "Specials". eg Built to Maerklin Sprecifications, not Maxxon Specs. SO if you do not like the maxxon motors in M Locos blame Maerklin.
The part number on the motor is a M number not Maxxon
Nev