Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline Goofy  
#1 Posted : 03 October 2010 13:10:15(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,957
Hello hello!

I have just found out,that both of Marklin and Trix new MS2 has exactly same software.
They works exactly same way of functions too!
The only difference between them are logotyp of names and colour.
I prefer green colour better than red! RollEyes
May i say even name Trix perhaps sounds good and better into my ears...???

BigGrin LOL
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline David Dewar  
#2 Posted : 03 October 2010 13:44:06(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,326
Location: Scotland
I prefer red and Marklin .... so there lol.

dave
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline Darren W  
#3 Posted : 03 October 2010 19:38:06(UTC)
Darren W

Canada   
Joined: 01/01/2007(UTC)
Posts: 643
Location: Alberta
Hi Goofy. Where did you find this information? I have heard it twice now as rumor and would like to see documentation to support it. It makes sense now that they are embracing DCC to save on production and support costs to make the units similar.

My question is if Marklin uses AC and Trix uses DC how does the controller know what to output? Is this a software option? Is there a different connection box?

Cheers...
Darren
Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 03 October 2010 20:29:50(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,245
Location: DE-NW
Darren W wrote:
My question is if Marklin uses AC and Trix uses DC how does the controller know what to output?

Märklin uses AC and Trix uses AC (digital is always AC, even "DC digital" is AC).
And it's not the controller that generates the digital signal. The connection box generates the digital signal for the track.

A user of Stummi's Forum reports that he uses a Trix MS2 while his son uses a M* MS2 - both with the same connection box.
So just buy the colour you like best.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline RayF  
#5 Posted : 03 October 2010 21:00:35(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,836
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
H0 wrote:
Darren W wrote:
My question is if Marklin uses AC and Trix uses DC how does the controller know what to output?

Märklin uses AC and Trix uses AC (digital is always AC, even "DC digital" is AC).
And it's not the controller that generates the digital signal. The connection box generates the digital signal for the track.

A user of Stummi's Forum reports that he uses a Trix MS2 while his son uses a M* MS2 - both with the same connection box.
So just buy the colour you like best.



There's a lot of misunderstanding concerning analogue and digital signals. Even your analysis above is not quite right, Tom.

Digital signals as used in all model railways are not AC. It is bipolar pulsed DC. It is a (roughly) 18-20V DC voltage which has modulated digital signals superimposed on it. This is roughly the same for both types of track standard, 2 rail or 3 rail. The only variation is the digital protocol (What the 1's and 0's represent).

AC is a current which varies (usually in a sine wave) between a positive and a negative limit, at a certain fixed frequency, 50 or 60 Hz depending on your country. The maximum difference between these two limits is called the peak to peak voltage. If you put a Volt meter across this you get a lower voltage indicated, which is known as the RMS voltage (Root Mean Square).

I'm not sure if your statement about the connection box generating the digital signal is true either. I think the controller generates the digital signal which is then injected in the correct format into the track current at the connection box. The controller generates the commands (brain) and the box provides the power (muscle).

Of course it's not as simple as I've described it and I'm sure I'll get someone shooting it all down! BigGrin
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline H0  
#6 Posted : 03 October 2010 21:41:33(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,245
Location: DE-NW
RayPayas wrote:
Digital signals as used in all model railways are not AC. It is bipolar pulsed DC.

I call it AC. It surely is a rectangular wave, not a sine wave.
The centre rail is either plus or minus versus the outer rail.
The pattern of the polarity changes transports the digital information (0 or 1).

For me it's AC because the direction of electric charge reverses direction. Feel free to call it bipolar pulsed DC.
With MM and mfx there is always current on the track, no interrupts.
This also applies to DCC without Railcom.

With MS2, the "brain" (as you call it) is in the connection box.
You can connect two MS2 to the box - and both are "slaves" of the "master" box.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline RayF  
#7 Posted : 03 October 2010 22:15:13(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,836
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
H0 wrote:
RayPayas wrote:
Digital signals as used in all model railways are not AC. It is bipolar pulsed DC.

I call it AC. It surely is a rectangular wave, not a sine wave.
The centre rail is either plus or minus versus the outer rail.
The pattern of the polarity changes transports the digital information (0 or 1).

For me it's AC because the direction of electric charge reverses direction. Feel free to call it bipolar pulsed DC.
With MM and mfx there is always current on the track, no interrupts.
This also applies to DCC without Railcom.

With MS2, the "brain" (as you call it) is in the connection box.
You can connect two MS2 to the box - and both are "slaves" of the "master" box.


The decisions are made in the controller. I would call that the brain. That's where you decide loco address, speed, direction, function, etc, and the information is encoded into a digital signal. The digital signal is passed to the connection box where it is modulated onto the track current. Granted there is a certain amount of intelligence in the box, which is responsible for sorting out the signals from the connected controllers and putting the signal into the right protocol for transmission to the track.

I will have to differ with you on the interpretation of a digital signal and AC. Bipolar means that the signal has a high and a low level. The zero level can be arbitrary. Many consider such a signal "a form of AC". I prefer not to use such descriptions as they create confusion. I think of it as a DC voltage which is dropped low in a pattern defined by the digital information. This is why you get light bulbs flickering in a digital layout. A pure AC layout will not cause visible flicker in light bulbs.

Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 03 October 2010 23:51:16(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,245
Location: DE-NW
RayPayas wrote:
The decisions are made in the controller. I would call that the brain. That's where you decide loco address, speed, direction, function, etc, and the information is encoded into a digital signal. The digital signal is passed to the connection box where it is modulated onto the track current. Granted there is a certain amount of intelligence in the box, which is responsible for sorting out the signals from the connected controllers and putting the signal into the right protocol for transmission to the track.

The Track Format Processor (GFP in German) is now in the track connection box. Both MS2s are connected via CAN bus.
Therefore I still think the "brain" is in the track box.

RayPayas wrote:
I think of it as a DC voltage which is dropped low in a pattern defined by the digital information.

The voltage is reversed, not dropped. There always is the full voltage on the track, but centre rail is either plus or minus. Therefore it's AC for me.
Some lamps flicker because they are connect between rail and minus. Lamp is on if there is plus on the outer rails and off if there is minus on the outer rail.
With the 60901 decoder lamps are between plus and minus and do not flicker because there always is the full power on the track.

See NMRA for detailed information.
Quote: "A: Technique For Encoding Bits
The NMRA baseline digital command control signal consists of a stream of transitions between two equal
voltage levels that have opposite polarity
."
http://www.nmra.org/stan...rds_rps/S-91-2004-07.pdf

MM uses a different encoding scheme, but also reverses polarity.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline RayF  
#9 Posted : 04 October 2010 00:10:46(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,836
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
H0 wrote:
RayPayas wrote:
The decisions are made in the controller. I would call that the brain. That's where you decide loco address, speed, direction, function, etc, and the information is encoded into a digital signal. The digital signal is passed to the connection box where it is modulated onto the track current. Granted there is a certain amount of intelligence in the box, which is responsible for sorting out the signals from the connected controllers and putting the signal into the right protocol for transmission to the track.

The Track Format Processor (GFP in German) is now in the track connection box. Both MS2s are connected via CAN bus.
Therefore I still think the "brain" is in the track box.

RayPayas wrote:
I think of it as a DC voltage which is dropped low in a pattern defined by the digital information.

The voltage is reversed, not dropped. There always is the full voltage on the track, but centre rail is either plus or minus. Therefore it's AC for me.
Some lamps flicker because they are connect between rail and minus. Lamp is on if there is plus on the outer rails and off if there is minus on the outer rail.
With the 60901 decoder lamps are between plus and minus and do not flicker because there always is the full power on the track.

See NMRA for detailed information.
Quote: "A: Technique For Encoding Bits
The NMRA baseline digital command control signal consists of a stream of transitions between two equal
voltage levels that have opposite polarity
."
http://www.nmra.org/stan...rds_rps/S-91-2004-07.pdf

MM uses a different encoding scheme, but also reverses polarity.


Tom, I've been an Electronics Engineer for 30 years. I know what I'm talking about. I know what a bipolar signal is, and it's just a convention. The real factors are a high signal level and a low signal level and the varying rates of the transitions which define the digital information. Whether it's +/- 12V or any other voltage is irrelevant. But you know what, I won't argue with you any more because you never accept any other opinion than your own.

If you place a bulb between the rail and the centre it will flicker, at least it does on my layout. It only does not flicker if it's connected between the rectified + and - "rails" on the decoder itself.

Our definition of a brain also varies. I will stick to mine, though I can see there is some justification for saying that there is a brain in the connection box. I still think most of the processing is done in the MS2, not in the box.

I'm fed up of this discussion now, so I'l let you have the last word, as usual.


Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by RayF
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#10 Posted : 04 October 2010 00:43:30(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,657
Location: New Zealand
RayPayas wrote:
Digital signals as used in all model railways are not AC. It is bipolar pulsed DC.



H0 wrote:
I call it AC. It surely is a rectangular wave, not a sine wave.



I think the correct, or most commonly used term is square wave. When you look at it on a scope you see a series of square shaped signals, the horizontal part of which is DC.

That's why in audio electronics, a clipped output signal from an amplifier is dangerous, because it approximates a square wave output, therefore DC is feed into the loudspeaker, and loudspeakers don't like DC.

Offline David Dewar  
#11 Posted : 04 October 2010 01:21:17(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,326
Location: Scotland
I know nothing about this but it is interesting to know why and how the lights flicker which I have found to be annoying when setting up lighting which I could connect to the track.
If Ray is an electrical engineer then I reckon he knows what he is talking about but I would consider the brain of a system is the controller.
Still think red is a better colour than green though.

dave
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline RayF  
#12 Posted : 04 October 2010 01:25:10(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,836
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
David Dewar wrote:
I know nothing about this but it is interesting to know why and how the lights flicker which I have found to be annoying when setting up lighting which I could connect to the track.
If Ray is an electrical engineer then I reckon he knows what he is talking about but I would consider the brain of a system is the controller.
Still think red is a better colour than green though.

dave


I prefer blue. Why didn't they stick with the old Marklin blue for controllers? BigGrin
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline H0  
#13 Posted : 04 October 2010 01:26:05(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,245
Location: DE-NW
RayPayas wrote:
But you know what, I won't argue with you any more because you never accept any other opinion than your own.

I heard the term "bipolar pulsed DC" for the first time today. I searched for it on Google and found no MRR related pages and no definition.
You say it's a convention - but a convention I don't know yet.
I'm used to call current with alternating polarity AC. You call it "bipolar pulsed DC". That's fine for me (as I said before), but it's a completely new term for me.

It seems we agree about the shape of the current on the track. You say high and low, I say +20 V and -20 V.

When I hear "high" and "low" I think of 20 V vs. 10 V or 20 V vs. 0 V. Therefore I pointed out that the polarity changes - which you knew already.

So we agree on the facts, we disagree on the preferred term.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Darren W  
#14 Posted : 04 October 2010 04:43:39(UTC)
Darren W

Canada   
Joined: 01/01/2007(UTC)
Posts: 643
Location: Alberta
I didn't know that Trix used AC voltage. I thought they were DC like my old Bachmann N-scale trains I used to have. Those trains used analog DC voltage to run the trains just as old Marklin uses analog AC voltage. When I think of 2-rail trains I think of DC voltage. I am not sure what track voltages are used for DCC so I guess I should look it up before I open my mouth and start a debate like this. I assumed they still used DC but superimposed a digital signal on it.

Does this mean that Marklin only makes 1 connection box for both Trix and Marklin?

If I buy a Trix starter set with MS2 am I going to get a Marklin labeled connector box inside?

I have not seen the part number for a Trix specific connector box.

Darren
Offline eduard71  
#15 Posted : 04 October 2010 05:34:15(UTC)
eduard71

Chile   
Joined: 27/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 293
Location: Santiago
Here is a copy of the last digital newsletter from Tom Catherall and talks about the two MS2. I have already ordered the Trix one because the Marklin one is not available at this moment.

Regards Eduardo

If someone likes a copy of this letter let me know an I will send to you the original pdf, so you can also see the illustrations.


NEWSLETTER
VOLUME 22 - NO. 5
September- October 2010
Dr. Tom Catherall, Editor
Working with the new Mobile Stations
Part 1
The following information applies to both the Märklin Mobile Station 60653 and the Trix Mobile
Station 66950. They both have similar software, only the hardware is different. I have both units and
when I call up the “Information” menu they both show SW 1.1, which means software version is 1.1.
They both show HW or hardware version to be 2.0, but the Trix has a green knob and the Trix name
on it while the Märklin unit has a red knob and the Märklin name on it.
START - When you plug the Mobile Station into a Track Connector Box or a Central Station you will
see the picture shown in Illustration 1. (There are two track Connection boxes, 60113 for HO/N and
60112 for 1 gauge with thicker wire and larger spade connectors, internally, they are both the same).
Illustration 1
Märklin Mobile Station Trix Mobile Station
#66950 #60653
2
On the screen you will see a name of a loco and a picture of the loco if one has been entered.
Below the picture are the direction arrows which are activated by pressing the red or green speed
knob. Functions for that loco are shown on the right and left margins and are activated by pressing
one of the eight buttons adjacent to the function icon. The loco's speed is determined by turning the
speed knob clockwise to increase speed and counter-clockwise to decrease speed. Emergency
stops are accomplished by pressing the STOP button. As speeds change they can be monitored by
watching a speed bar increase and decrease on the right side of the screen. If there is no loco
entered into the Mobile Station the screen will look like Illustration 2.
Entering a loco will be discussed later, but the first
thing you will want to do is to get the Mobile Station
speaking a familiar language.
CHANGE THE LANGUAGE - To do this,
press the “Shift” button and the button with
the turnout pictured on it at the same time as
shown in Illustration 3.
You should now see the graphic shown in Illustration
4 on the screen.
The second button on the right will move the scroll
bar up and pressing the third button will move it down.
Pressing the second button on the left will select the
menu option “Information” and pressing the third button
on the left will select the option “Language.” If you select
“Language” will will get the screen shown in Illustration
5.
Press the scroll bar buttons to move the screen up
and down. When you see a language you want press
the button to the left of that name.
If you press the button with the return arrow, as shown
in Illustration 6, you will go back a screen so you can
select “Information”
Press the button to the left of “Information” and you
will see the graphic on Illustration 7.
Illustration 2
Illustration 3
Illustration 4
Illustration 5
Scrolling through the information screen will give you various bits of information such as
software version, hardware version, the dates of the locomotive database among other things.
When I looked at the information when first plugged into the track connector box, the software
version was 1.1 and the LDB (loco database) was noted as v008 8/10 which was October of 2008. I
then plugged the Mobile Station into the Central Station with software version 1.3.0 and it updated
my Mobile Station so the software version was 1.2 and the Märklin loco database was updated to
v009 10/2 which is February 2010. This will occur whether you use the Trix or Märklin Mobile Station
because both need the loco database because they both can control Märklin Motorola, MFX and
DCC equipped locomotives. Other submenus available in the “Information” menu are shown in
Illustration 8.
The “Accessory Protocol” submenu will give you the screen shown in Illustration 9. This
screen lets you select which type of decoder is installed in each of your accessories.
The” Factory default Settings” submenu will give you the screen shown in Illustration 10.
Selecting “Yes” will return the Mobile Station to its original settings thus erasing all the loco's and
other settings you have entered.
ENTERING LOCOMOTIVES - Remember, avoid shorts by pressing the “stop” button when placing
loco's on the tracks.
You can control trains from a list of 10 locomotives, plus one on a locomotive card. If you are
connected to a Central Station you can also control locos from those listed on the Central Station.
Your mfx locos will enter themselves when placed on the track. If they fail to register, try placing them
alone on the track and also check to see if you already have a loco on the list with address “03”. If
you do, change that loco’s address.
3
Illustration 6 Illustration 7
Illustration 8 Illustration 9
Locos other than mfx need to be entered on the Mobile Station’s list. Look at Illustration 1 and
notice the icon of the loco and nine “+” signs at the bottom of the screen. If you had a full list of 10
loco's in the Mobile Station, you would see 10 loco icons across the bottom. The nine “+” signs are
empty loco spaces waiting for locos to be entered. Pressing the button with the loco on it at the lower
right will cycle the screen through those icons. If you rest on one with a loco and press the red speed
button, that loco would be chosen and placed on the screen ready to be controlled. If you rest on a
“+” sign and press the the “shift” and loco button at the same time you will be taken to the screen
shown in Illustration 11, ready to enter a new locomotive.
If you select “Find” the loco must be the only loco on the track and the Mobile Station will look
for it and enter it. If it cannot find it, you will see a message on the screen. You can try again,
reprogram the loco and try again, clean the tracks and try again, or enter it manually, or from the
database. When entering a loco manually, the station will ask for the type of decoder (MM2 or DCC)
and then proceed with that information. It will ask for an address in the range of that loco’s decoder,
an icon of the loco and a name.
4
Illustration 10
Illustration 11
Once the loco is on the list, you can select it by pressing the loco button on the lower right until
it appears on the screen, then press the red button. When the loco is selected on the screen it can be
edited with the pressing of the “shift” and loco button at the same time. This will give you the screen
in Illustration 12.
Changing the loco will take you through a series of
submenus such as “acceleration”, “deceleration”, changing the
loco’s name, the loco’s icon, functions and sound volume.
These screens can be seen in Illustrations 13 and 14.
Programming the locomotive will let you change the CVs, delete the loco, and write to the loco card
in the slot. These screens can be seen in Illustrations 15 and 16.
The other way to enter locos besides “Find”, mfx, and “Manual” is with the database. The loco
database is a list of hundreds of Märklin loco's in HO and 1 gauge formats in both digital and Delta.
When a loco is chosen off the list it comes with the loco’s item number (The number on the box and
in the catalog). When it is entered into the Mobile Station’s list it includes the name, picture and its
functions. These can be changed as previously discussed.
When the Mobile Station is connected to the Central Station the database is updated if a
newer one is available. Illustrations 17 and 18 show screens related to the database.
5
Illustration 12
Illustration 13
Illustration 14
Illustration 15 Illustration 16
When “From Database” is chosen in Illustration 17, you will get the screen shown in Illustration 18.
Notice the database items are reviewed with the scroll bar which is activated by the two buttons to
the right of the bar. One takes the list further up to lower item numbers and the other one takes the
list to higher item numbers. To select one of the items you would press the second or third button on
the left side of the Mobile Station. Do not turn the speed knob to scroll.
In Part 2 of this article in the next Newsletter, accessories (signals, turnouts, etc.) will be
discussed.
Looking for spare part numbers for Märklin items?
The following link takes you to the Märklin German web site service screens for finding part
numbers.
http://www.maerklin.de/d...e/suche/ersatzteile.html
The link below takes you to the Märklin Shop site where parts can be found. Only people in
the countries listed on the website can order them off this web page, however, North American
enthusiasts can order parts from their authorized dealer or from Walthers at www.walthers.com.
http://www.maerklinshop....?sid=925bda4d9dd41b03f09
4766803138f1f&cl=sparepartslists&gaugeid=2
Calibrating the Central Station Screen
Sometimes the calibration of the touch screen goes bad and what you touch with the finger or
stylus is not what you get. The “Setup” screen has a submenu “Calibrate” which will take you through
a series of crosshairs which you touch with the stylus or finger to align the touch screen with the
actual items shown on the screen.
Often when this happens you cannot touch the “CALIBRATE” submenu to activate it. In this
case you should connect a USB mouse to the USB port on the back and use the mouse arrow to
activate the “calibrate” submenu. If you don’t have a mouse arrow, there is an activation button in the
“View” submenu of the “Setup” screen. The “View” submenu can be seen in Illustration 19.
6
Illustration 17 Illustration 18
Mobile Station 1 versus Mobile Station 2
The old Mobile Station 60652 has an internal booster in each unit. The new Mobile Stations for
both Märklin 60653 and Trix 66950 are a pure control device that drives an external booster that can
be in the track connector box or the Central Station. This makes the new Mobile Station more
efficient and economical. When you had multiple units connected with the old Mobile Station, each
had its own booster which was redundant. The slave Stations had to bypass their boosters, but with
the new Station there is no slave and each Station is its own master and has its own list of locos.
Digital Hot Line
Help for your digital problems and questions is as convenient as a phone call or computer
connection. Remember, Tom Catherall operates a help line for all Digital Club members. For
assistance call:
(801) 489-8971 day time hot line
(801) 489-1087 FAX
e-mail = tom@marklin.com
7
FREE CD
Get a free CD with all the Digital Newsletters on it from the past 21 years in PDF format.
Simply sign up a friend as a member of The Digital Club for $12 domestic, $20 foreign and Canada
or $8.00 Email delivery for domestic or foreign. Then e-mail your name and postal address to Tom
Catherall at the email noted above and he will send you the FREE CD.
To sign up a new member, either do it on Märklin’s web page (WWW.marklin.com) or send
their name, address and check payable to Märklin, Inc. (or credit card number) to Michelle at:
Märklin, Inc./Digital Club
PO Box 510559
New Berlin WI 53151-0559m
Digital Newsletter Now Available via E-mail
The Digital Newsletter has subscribers throughout the U.S. and Canada, and more than
twenty-five countries around the globe. We have recently fielded some requests from subscribers
both near and far requesting we send their bi-monthly newsletter via e-mail rather than snail mail. We
are pleased to respond to this request by offering all of our members the option of receiving their
newsletter via e-mail. The new e-mail distribution service began with the May/June 2007 issue of the
newsletter. To sign up for the Digital Newsletter e-mail distribution service, please e-mail your name
and e-mail address to Michelle Gurski at Märklin, Inc. using this e-mail address: club@marklin.com.
Please type “Digital Newsletter” in the subject line of your e-mail.
For those members who do not utilize e-mail, please rest assured we will continue to mail you
a printed copy of the newsletter.
märklin
DIGITAL_____________
P.O. Box 510559
New Berlin, WI 53151-0559
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#16 Posted : 04 October 2010 06:47:48(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,657
Location: New Zealand
Darren W wrote:
If I buy a Trix starter set with MS2 am I going to get a Marklin labeled connector box inside?



Yes!


Taken from the Trix 2010 Autumn New Items - page 10


UserPostedImage

Edited by moderator 11 January 2011 10:51:45(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline RayF  
#17 Posted : 04 October 2010 11:41:34(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,836
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
So both MS2 have the complete loco databases for both Marklin and Trix?

I guess when you select a loco for control it sends commands to that loco in the approriate format (DCC, MM, etc)?
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline H0  
#18 Posted : 04 October 2010 13:30:53(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,245
Location: DE-NW
Darren W wrote:
I didn't know that Trix used AC voltage.

Analog Trix uses DC.
Digital Trix uses current with constant voltage but alternating polarity (with SX or Railcom there are short pauses in the current). Some chaps call this "AC", some call it "bipolar pulsed DC".

One thing's for sure: all the nice diode tricks that work with analog DC operation will not work on digital 2R.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline Darren W  
#19 Posted : 04 October 2010 20:51:34(UTC)
Darren W

Canada   
Joined: 01/01/2007(UTC)
Posts: 643
Location: Alberta
The pieces of the puzzle are coming together now. I found a DCC Wiki page that helped a bit as well.

RayPayas wrote:
So both MS2 have the complete loco databases for both Marklin and Trix?

I guess when you select a loco for control it sends commands to that loco in the approriate format (DCC, MM, etc)?


It would be great if someone could verify if this 100% correct. Then I guess it would come down to colour choice. Too bad Marklin didn't make them with interchangable faceplates and buttons. They could sell a variety of colours or even custom ones.BigGrin

Darren

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Darren W
Offline dntower85  
#20 Posted : 04 October 2010 21:24:41(UTC)
dntower85

United States   
Joined: 08/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,218
Location: Shady Shores, TX - USA
Darren W wrote:
The pieces of the puzzle are coming together now. I found a DCC Wiki page that helped a bit as well.

RayPayas wrote:
So both MS2 have the complete loco databases for both Marklin and Trix?

I guess when you select a loco for control it sends commands to that loco in the approriate format (DCC, MM, etc)?


It would be great if someone could verify if this 100% correct. Then I guess it would come down to colour choice. Too bad Marklin didn't make them with interchangable faceplates and buttons. They could sell a variety of colours or even custom ones.BigGrin

Darren



Not just a Color Choice but a logo choice as well. "silly rabbit, Trix are for kids" Laugh
DT
Now powered by ECoS II unit#2, RocRail
era - some time in the future when the space time continuum is disrupted and ICE 3 Trains run on the same rails as the Adler and BR18's.
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#21 Posted : 05 October 2010 00:49:09(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,657
Location: New Zealand
Darren W wrote:
The pieces of the puzzle are coming together now. I found a DCC Wiki page that helped a bit as well.

RayPayas wrote:
So both MS2 have the complete loco databases for both Marklin and Trix?

I guess when you select a loco for control it sends commands to that loco in the approriate format (DCC, MM, etc)?


It would be great if someone could verify if this 100% correct. Then I guess it would come down to colour choice. Too bad Marklin didn't make them with interchangable faceplates and buttons. They could sell a variety of colours or even custom ones.BigGrin

Darren



The Marklin MS2 does not appear to have any Trix items in its database.
Offline old toot  
#22 Posted : 05 October 2010 14:07:41(UTC)
old toot

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 498
Location: christchurch, canterbury
oh well
you are having fun if all else fails david you can pickup your phone
and ring your NZ dealer who is an electronics engineer if fact when we come
north for the wellington show why don't you Get Dion to do his introduction
to the world of digital along with peter which he has been doing at clubs and
shows for the last three years and they have been very well received
yes the marklin and trix are basically the same beast with one picks up three rail
and the other two rail
the locos go down the production the same except they get differant wheels and decoders
which are about to change as per the latest marklin magazine in fact we have two locos instock
one is the marklin version and the other the trix of the same austrian loco so basically
the buyer of a trix loco is getting a marklin loco adapted for two rail operation
So Marklin should back and promote a show with the AC/DC band with the trix marklin brands
displayed either side of their stage with the bands big LOCO prop in the middle so all us
metal heads would be happy on and off the railsBigGrin BigGrin BigGrin
regards
old shaky toot oh yes we got another 5.00 quake last night !! I had just got into the shower
and the whole shower box was rocking not a funny experience so thats the third biggest shake
were we pickit, packit and postit
Offline old toot  
#23 Posted : 05 October 2010 14:18:42(UTC)
old toot

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 498
Location: christchurch, canterbury
tonights 11.10 rocker special has just gone through
we just had another big aftershock Scared
were we pickit, packit and postit
Offline David Dewar  
#24 Posted : 05 October 2010 14:38:31(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,326
Location: Scotland
Good info Bryan. Hopefully you will get back to normal soon. Quakes have been going on for too long now.

dave (still think you should come over here)
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline Macfire  
#25 Posted : 05 October 2010 17:31:10(UTC)
Macfire


Joined: 04/11/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,652
Location: New Zealand
old toot wrote:
tonights 11.10 rocker special has just gone through
we just had another big aftershock Scared


Hang in there mate, at least you Cantabrians can handle it a lot better than others "up north" BigGrin
Lord Macca
New Zealand branch of Clan Donald.
Offline dntower85  
#26 Posted : 05 October 2010 18:37:48(UTC)
dntower85

United States   
Joined: 08/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,218
Location: Shady Shores, TX - USA
old toot wrote:
tonights 11.10 rocker special has just gone through
we just had another big aftershock Scared


11.10 richter scale? Cursing OhMyGod Sad

how is there any thing left of the town,
Or was that 11:10 pm??

DT
Now powered by ECoS II unit#2, RocRail
era - some time in the future when the space time continuum is disrupted and ICE 3 Trains run on the same rails as the Adler and BR18's.
Offline Macfire  
#27 Posted : 05 October 2010 18:58:41(UTC)
Macfire


Joined: 04/11/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,652
Location: New Zealand
23:10

Our notification from Geonet

Earthquake Report: 11:10 PM on 05/10/2010 4.2 30 km SE of Darfield

GEOLOGICAL & NUCLEAR SCIENCES
GeoNet Data Centre, Lower Hutt, New Zealand
http://www.geonet.org.nz

PRELIMINARY EARTHQUAKE INFORMATION


The following earthquake has been recorded by GNS:

Reference number: 3383183/G
Universal Time: 2010/10/05 10:10:55
Local time (NZDT): 11:10 PM on Tuesday 05 October 2010
Latitude, Longitude: 43.63S, 172.44E
NZ Map Grid (E, N): 2465000, 5731000
NZ Trans Merc (E, N): 1555000, 5170000
Location: 30 km south-east of Darfield
Focal depth: 12
Magnitude: 4.2

Web page: http://www.geonet.org.nz...ake/quakes/3383183g.html
Web service: http://www.geonet.org.nz/services/quake/3383183g

Widely felt in Canterbury.

Link to The Big One
Lord Macca
New Zealand branch of Clan Donald.
Offline Goofy  
#28 Posted : 05 October 2010 21:55:35(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,957
Back to topic...
With Trix MS2 you can also registration mfx locomotivs!
All this supporting by of connection box 60113.
Doesn´t matter of DCC or MM/mfx...!!!

I have an question...
Is it possible by controls turnouts with slow motor too or just only fast switchover motor...???
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline old toot  
#29 Posted : 05 October 2010 22:20:24(UTC)
old toot

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/07/2009(UTC)
Posts: 498
Location: christchurch, canterbury
well goofy
i suppose anything is possible but the slow change of the older points was something that often created problems
and the clear positive change of the digital system to me seems good and is a very quiet change just a simple click
and you know it has done it were as the older ones, you would hear it start but sometimes it only half changed which
made operating problems so for me the new digital change is a vast improvement, but the marklin motors could be exchanged
for a slow type if that is what you want if mounted under neath the bench but the digital system seems almost to have a small
capacitor building up a charge so when you ask it to change it discharges and bang its done which stops motors burning out
regards
old toot
were we pickit, packit and postit
Offline H0  
#30 Posted : 06 October 2010 01:27:50(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,245
Location: DE-NW
Goofy wrote:
Is it possible by controls turnouts with slow motor too or just only fast switchover motor...???

If they have a suitable decoder they can be controlled.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline H0  
#31 Posted : 10 October 2010 02:12:04(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,245
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Ray!
RayPayas wrote:
If you place a bulb between the rail and the centre it will flicker, at least it does on my layout. It only does not flicker if it's connected between the rectified + and - "rails" on the decoder itself.

I tried that today, using a Märklin 4411 freight car which has a light bulb connected between centre and outer rails, cover was removed.

Tried it on a track powered by CU 6021 (DIP switch 2 on, all others off): no flicker.
Tried it on a track powered by Intellibox: no flicker.
Tried it on a track powered by MS2 & connection box: no flicker.

The car was standing; light flickers when the car moves (contact problem).

LEDs would flicker, but light bulbs should not flicker.

The lamps in Märklin models with 6080 or 6090 decoder are flickering - but this is a different story.

I perceive a CRT monitor running at 75 Hz or less as flickering.
85 Hz or more is OK.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline H0  
#32 Posted : 10 October 2010 02:33:49(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,245
Location: DE-NW
Bigdaddynz wrote:
The Marklin MS2 does not appear to have any Trix items in its database.

The Trix MS2 has the same database as the Märklin MS2. I'm not sure if there are any Trix items in it, but I found all Märklin items I looked for.
My Trix MS2 shows the Märklin logo when it's powered up.

Database list is now sorted by string (like the reference in a Märklin catalogue), not by value (like Koll's catalogue).

The manual does not cover what it's like if you have 2 MS2s connected.
IMHO it's a pain in the bump.

With 2 MS2s connected, the right one is the master and the left one is the slave.
All mfx locos will register with the master, only the master can program locos.
No way to swap locos between controllers.

I connected one MS2, registered an mfx loco.
Then I connected the other MS2 and registered another mfx loco.
Both MS2s were now showing different locos - but obviously both locos had the same mfx address (assigned automatically by the "system").

So with 2 MS2s you can register 20 locos. But so far I found no way to bring mfx locos to the slave MS2.

I found a bug while changing the address of an DCC loco: MS2 programmed the new address correctly into the loco and showed the new address, but continued to use the old address.
I deleted the loco and created a new entry with the new address and now the loco worked.

After playing with it, I cannot say if the brain is in the grey box or in the MS2.
I wished there was a combined loco list in the grey box that allowed you to select either loco on either MS2.
But no, there are 10 "master locos" and 10 "slave locos" and you can control 1 "master locos" and 1 "slave locos" at the same time, but not 2 "master locos" or 2 "slave locos".
More locos than with two MS1s, but also new restrictions.

I primarily bought the MS2 to have a portable controller for club meetings.
I think it's good for that - better than MS1 because it has DCC and supports 255 MM addresses (at least I hope it does, haven't tried it yet).

I tried loco detection with a Roco loco: no loco found.
That stupid thing could try DCC first, but it doesn't.
But no, it tries all MM addresses and turns the lights on. The loco lights (light bulb) went on, but I presume power consumption was to low to be detected by the MS2.
Haven't tried loco detection with Märklin locos yet.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline jeehring  
#33 Posted : 10 October 2010 22:45:33(UTC)
jeehring


Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,786
Location: ,
Trix MS2 is also for all DCC layouts on which you can find several different brands ....I would be surprised to find any Trix data base into Trix MS2. It has less sense than for Marklin 3 rails. Excepted a pre-registered lok in a starter box...may be Unsure
Offline jeehring  
#34 Posted : 10 October 2010 22:54:30(UTC)
jeehring


Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,786
Location: ,
HO (TOM) is still thinking (and acting) like if the "brain" is into the grey box.... Wink
Offline H0  
#35 Posted : 10 October 2010 23:12:26(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,245
Location: DE-NW
jeehring wrote:
H0 (TOM) is still thinking (and acting) like if the "brain" is into the box.... Laugh

Hearsay from Stummi's Forum said the brain was in the box.
Hearsay from Stummi's Forum also said that Master and Slave no longer existed.

Now I wonder if there is any brain in the whole system coz when using two MS2s it appears like a brainless design.
There is neither Master nor Slave, there are two independent systems that do not communicate nor co-operate; one is CAN-bus Master and gets all mfx locos, the slave won't get any mfx locos (unless I missed something).

It's said that MS2 communicates via CAN bus with the grey bus which then generates the the track protocol and the track power.
Therefore the cable to the MS2 is thinner and more flexible (only 4 wires used).

A Trix database would make sense for all locos with pre-installed decoders and more than just plain vanilla functions (f0 and f4).
These cannot be too many.
Wouldn't be a big advantage, but would be an outstanding feature.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline jeehring  
#36 Posted : 11 October 2010 12:31:00(UTC)
jeehring


Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,786
Location: ,
H0 wrote:
jeehring wrote:
H0 (TOM) is still thinking (and acting) like if the "brain" is into the box.... Laugh

...(...)...Hearsay from Stummi's Forum also said that Master and Slave no longer existed.(...)...

.


Not only on Stummi.....have a look above, it is well specified in this thread....already.

Instead of trying to create conflicts between them ....just try to run trains, first...
Remember 6021 & control 80f...My questionning is about the behaviour of both 2 Marklin ms2 when 2 people are playing together,is it the same as with 6021+control 80f...( I suppose it must be similar...).
also ...any restriction when using both 1 Marklin ms2 connected to the box with Trix ms2....???(I don't think so but...may be I've missed something.)
Offline BenP  
#37 Posted : 13 November 2023 16:41:39(UTC)
BenP

United States   
Joined: 04/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 344
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
Informative (and entertaining) thread.
My question:
I want to digitalize my Z track with factory loc motors that only allow 10-12V 'dc' (v. 16-18V for HO). Can I use the MS2 (or other controller) with lower input voltage (transformer/switcher) to produce lower track voltage for Z?
Ben
Digital M (+ some K) track layout with mostly vintage rolling stock and accessories, and small Z scale layout.
https://youtube.com/play...0kgVYbh0CeDTF-bYXoD_2-V9
Offline JohnjeanB  
#38 Posted : 13 November 2023 17:49:09(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,052
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: BenP Go to Quoted Post

I want to digitalize my Z track with factory loc motors that only allow 10-12V 'dc' (v. 16-18V for HO). Can I use the MS2 (or other controller) with lower input voltage (transformer/switcher) to produce lower track voltage for Z?
Ben


Hi Ben
The Märklin / Trix solution consists in using an MS2 (Trix or Märklin, no matter), a reduced voltage power supply (15VDC instaed of 19VDC) Trix 66510 and a Märklin 60116
I can't find a similar solution for CS2 / CS3 (15 VDC output) for Minitrix
Cheers
Jean

Offline mbarreto  
#39 Posted : 13 November 2023 18:31:14(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,233
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post

I can't find a similar solution for CS2 / CS3 (15 VDC output) for Minitrix


The announced (I think not yet available) 60151 has a switch to select 19V or 22V, so as it doesn't have 15V it was not designed to address the Minitrix needs...
The existing 60041 has a switch to select 15V or 19V, so if 15V is selected it addresses better the Minitrix needs (as much as I understadn).




Edit: Corrected voltages and usage of the 60151. Added 60041 information.

Edited by user 23 November 2023 12:19:28(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Best regards,
Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.


Offline BenP  
#40 Posted : 13 November 2023 18:41:03(UTC)
BenP

United States   
Joined: 04/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 344
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: BenP Go to Quoted Post

I want to digitalize my Z track with factory loc motors that only allow 10-12V 'dc' (v. 16-18V for HO). Can I use the MS2 (or other controller) with lower input voltage (transformer/switcher) to produce lower track voltage for Z?
Ben


Hi Ben
The Märklin / Trix solution consists in using an MS2 (Trix or Märklin, no matter), a reduced voltage power supply (15VDC instaed of 19VDC) Trix 66510 and a Märklin 60116
I can't find a similar solution for CS2 / CS3 (15 VDC output) for Minitrix
Cheers
Jean



I read about a digital signal controller between CS3/IB's 18V out and track in that maintains digital instructions while reducing to 12v. I have not seen much about its use and do not know a US supplier:
https://amw.huebsch.at/produkte/dsr.htm

(Further complicating matters, I also learned that Velmo no longer ships decoders to US after new regulations and shipment losses)

Ben
Digital M (+ some K) track layout with mostly vintage rolling stock and accessories, and small Z scale layout.
https://youtube.com/play...0kgVYbh0CeDTF-bYXoD_2-V9
Offline mbarreto  
#41 Posted : 23 November 2023 12:21:05(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,233

I edited my post (#39) in this thread.

Best regards,
Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.


Offline BenP  
#42 Posted : 30 November 2023 01:13:49(UTC)
BenP

United States   
Joined: 04/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 344
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: BenP Go to Quoted Post

I want to digitalize my Z track with factory loc motors that only allow 10-12V 'dc' (v. 16-18V for HO). Can I use the MS2 (or other controller) with lower input voltage (transformer/switcher) to produce lower track voltage for Z?
Ben


Hi Ben
The Märklin / Trix solution consists in using an MS2 (Trix or Märklin, no matter), a reduced voltage power supply (15VDC instaed of 19VDC) Trix 66510 and a Märklin 60116
I can't find a similar solution for CS2 / CS3 (15 VDC output) for Minitrix
Cheers
Jean



I bought an MS2 (w 18V/2A power) for experimenting before ordering loc decoders from Germany (using some Dutch mail connection). Z engines max at 10V, so 12V/2A power supply seems optimal (given some power loss). Why do you suggest 15V power supply? Is this the minimum to get MS2 to operate? Or is this just a matter of Marklin plug?
Salut, Ben
Digital M (+ some K) track layout with mostly vintage rolling stock and accessories, and small Z scale layout.
https://youtube.com/play...0kgVYbh0CeDTF-bYXoD_2-V9
Offline JohnjeanB  
#43 Posted : 30 November 2023 10:43:57(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,052
Location: Paris, France
Hi Ben
Minirix is suggesting to use lower voltages for their small motors. This goes for digital too.
Neither Märklin nor Trix are involved in Z digital but their motors require even smaller voltage (10 VDC) so with an MS2, I suppose you need to plug a 12 VDC power supply onto the 60116 track box. I say I suppose because it is not within the specified voltages and because - as you write - Z motors require reduced voltages.
Cheers
Jean
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline blid  
#44 Posted : 30 November 2023 12:35:25(UTC)
blid

Sweden   
Joined: 02/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 228
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
For Z I use a DSR, Digital Spannungs Regler, by Arnold's Modell WEB. It reduce the track output from my EcoS to what I chose (11 V).
OneGauge Marklin and MTH, ESU ECoS 2.1 on LGB tracks. MTH 3-rail 0-gauge, DCS on GarGraves tracks. Z: Rokuhan tracks, analog or DCC+TC Gold.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by blid
H0BenP
Users browsing this topic
OceanSpiders 2.0
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2024, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 1.440 seconds.