Hello hello!

I have just found out,that both of Marklin and Trix new MS2 has exactly same software.
They works exactly same way of functions too!
The only difference between them are logotyp of names and colour.
I prefer green colour better than red!
May i say even name Trix perhaps sounds good and better into my ears...???

Hi Goofy. Where did you find this information? I have heard it twice now as rumor and would like to see documentation to support it. It makes sense now that they are embracing DCC to save on production and support costs to make the units similar.

My question is if Marklin uses AC and Trix uses DC how does the controller know what to output? Is this a software option? Is there a different connection box?

Cheers...
Darren

There's a lot of misunderstanding concerning analogue and digital signals. Even your analysis above is not quite right, Tom.

Digital signals as used in all model railways are not AC. It is bipolar pulsed DC. It is a (roughly) 18-20V DC voltage which has modulated digital signals superimposed on it. This is roughly the same for both types of track standard, 2 rail or 3 rail. The only variation is the digital protocol (What the 1's and 0's represent).

AC is a current which varies (usually in a sine wave) between a positive and a negative limit, at a certain fixed frequency, 50 or 60 Hz depending on your country. The maximum difference between these two limits is called the peak to peak voltage. If you put a Volt meter across this you get a lower voltage indicated, which is known as the RMS voltage (Root Mean Square).

I'm not sure if your statement about the connection box generating the digital signal is true either. I think the controller generates the digital signal which is then injected in the correct format into the track current at the connection box. The controller generates the commands (brain) and the box provides the power (muscle).

Of course it's not as simple as I've described it and I'm sure I'll get someone shooting it all down!

The decisions are made in the controller. I would call that the brain. That's where you decide loco address, speed, direction, function, etc, and the information is encoded into a digital signal. The digital signal is passed to the connection box where it is modulated onto the track current. Granted there is a certain amount of intelligence in the box, which is responsible for sorting out the signals from the connected controllers and putting the signal into the right protocol for transmission to the track.

I will have to differ with you on the interpretation of a digital signal and AC. Bipolar means that the signal has a high and a low level. The zero level can be arbitrary. Many consider such a signal "a form of AC". I prefer not to use such descriptions as they create confusion. I think of it as a DC voltage which is dropped low in a pattern defined by the digital information. This is why you get light bulbs flickering in a digital layout. A pure AC layout will not cause visible flicker in light bulbs.

Tom, I've been an Electronics Engineer for 30 years. I know what I'm talking about. I know what a bipolar signal is, and it's just a convention. The real factors are a high signal level and a low signal level and the varying rates of the transitions which define the digital information. Whether it's +/- 12V or any other voltage is irrelevant. But you know what, I won't argue with you any more because you never accept any other opinion than your own.

If you place a bulb between the rail and the centre it will flicker, at least it does on my layout. It only does not flicker if it's connected between the rectified + and - "rails" on the decoder itself.

Our definition of a brain also varies. I will stick to mine, though I can see there is some justification for saying that there is a brain in the connection box. I still think most of the processing is done in the MS2, not in the box.

I'm fed up of this discussion now, so I'l let you have the last word, as usual.

I know nothing about this but it is interesting to know why and how the lights flicker which I have found to be annoying when setting up lighting which I could connect to the track.
If Ray is an electrical engineer then I reckon he knows what he is talking about but I would consider the brain of a system is the controller.
Still think red is a better colour than green though.

dave

I heard the term "bipolar pulsed DC" for the first time today. I searched for it on Google and found no MRR related pages and no definition.
You say it's a convention - but a convention I don't know yet.
I'm used to call current with alternating polarity AC. You call it "bipolar pulsed DC". That's fine for me (as I said before), but it's a completely new term for me.

It seems we agree about the shape of the current on the track. You say high and low, I say +20 V and -20 V.

When I hear "high" and "low" I think of 20 V vs. 10 V or 20 V vs. 0 V. Therefore I pointed out that the polarity changes - which you knew already.

So we agree on the facts, we disagree on the preferred term.

Here is a copy of the last digital newsletter from Tom Catherall and talks about the two MS2. I have already ordered the Trix one because the Marklin one is not available at this moment.

Regards Eduardo

If someone likes a copy of this letter let me know an I will send to you the original pdf, so you can also see the illustrations.


NEWSLETTER
VOLUME 22 - NO. 5
September- October 2010
Dr. Tom Catherall, Editor
Working with the new Mobile Stations
Part 1
The following information applies to both the Märklin Mobile Station 60653 and the Trix Mobile
Station 66950. They both have similar software, only the hardware is different. I have both units and
when I call up the “Information” menu they both show SW 1.1, which means software version is 1.1.
They both show HW or hardware version to be 2.0, but the Trix has a green knob and the Trix name
on it while the Märklin unit has a red knob and the Märklin name on it.
START - When you plug the Mobile Station into a Track Connector Box or a Central Station you will
see the picture shown in Illustration 1. (There are two track Connection boxes, 60113 for HO/N and
60112 for 1 gauge with thicker wire and larger spade connectors, internally, they are both the same).
Illustration 1
Märklin Mobile Station Trix Mobile Station
#66950 #60653
2
On the screen you will see a name of a loco and a picture of the loco if one has been entered.
Below the picture are the direction arrows which are activated by pressing the red or green speed
knob. Functions for that loco are shown on the right and left margins and are activated by pressing
one of the eight buttons adjacent to the function icon. The loco's speed is determined by turning the
speed knob clockwise to increase speed and counter-clockwise to decrease speed. Emergency
stops are accomplished by pressing the STOP button. As speeds change they can be monitored by
watching a speed bar increase and decrease on the right side of the screen. If there is no loco
entered into the Mobile Station the screen will look like Illustration 2.
Entering a loco will be discussed later, but the first
thing you will want to do is to get the Mobile Station
speaking a familiar language.
CHANGE THE LANGUAGE - To do this,
press the “Shift” button and the button with
the turnout pictured on it at the same time as
shown in Illustration 3.
You should now see the graphic shown in Illustration
4 on the screen.
The second button on the right will move the scroll
bar up and pressing the third button will move it down.
Pressing the second button on the left will select the
menu option “Information” and pressing the third button
on the left will select the option “Language.” If you select
“Language” will will get the screen shown in Illustration
5.
Press the scroll bar buttons to move the screen up
and down. When you see a language you want press
the button to the left of that name.
If you press the button with the return arrow, as shown
in Illustration 6, you will go back a screen so you can
select “Information”
Press the button to the left of “Information” and you
will see the graphic on Illustration 7.
Illustration 2
Illustration 3
Illustration 4
Illustration 5
Scrolling through the information screen will give you various bits of information such as
software version, hardware version, the dates of the locomotive database among other things.
When I looked at the information when first plugged into the track connector box, the software
version was 1.1 and the LDB (loco database) was noted as v008 8/10 which was October of 2008. I
then plugged the Mobile Station into the Central Station with software version 1.3.0 and it updated
my Mobile Station so the software version was 1.2 and the Märklin loco database was updated to
v009 10/2 which is February 2010. This will occur whether you use the Trix or Märklin Mobile Station
because both need the loco database because they both can control Märklin Motorola, MFX and
DCC equipped locomotives. Other submenus available in the “Information” menu are shown in
Illustration 8.
The “Accessory Protocol” submenu will give you the screen shown in Illustration 9. This
screen lets you select which type of decoder is installed in each of your accessories.
The” Factory default Settings” submenu will give you the screen shown in Illustration 10.
Selecting “Yes” will return the Mobile Station to its original settings thus erasing all the loco's and
other settings you have entered.
ENTERING LOCOMOTIVES - Remember, avoid shorts by pressing the “stop” button when placing
loco's on the tracks.
You can control trains from a list of 10 locomotives, plus one on a locomotive card. If you are
connected to a Central Station you can also control locos from those listed on the Central Station.
Your mfx locos will enter themselves when placed on the track. If they fail to register, try placing them
alone on the track and also check to see if you already have a loco on the list with address “03”. If
you do, change that loco’s address.
3
Illustration 6 Illustration 7
Illustration 8 Illustration 9
Locos other than mfx need to be entered on the Mobile Station’s list. Look at Illustration 1 and
notice the icon of the loco and nine “+” signs at the bottom of the screen. If you had a full list of 10
loco's in the Mobile Station, you would see 10 loco icons across the bottom. The nine “+” signs are
empty loco spaces waiting for locos to be entered. Pressing the button with the loco on it at the lower
right will cycle the screen through those icons. If you rest on one with a loco and press the red speed
button, that loco would be chosen and placed on the screen ready to be controlled. If you rest on a
“+” sign and press the the “shift” and loco button at the same time you will be taken to the screen
shown in Illustration 11, ready to enter a new locomotive.
If you select “Find” the loco must be the only loco on the track and the Mobile Station will look
for it and enter it. If it cannot find it, you will see a message on the screen. You can try again,
reprogram the loco and try again, clean the tracks and try again, or enter it manually, or from the
database. When entering a loco manually, the station will ask for the type of decoder (MM2 or DCC)
and then proceed with that information. It will ask for an address in the range of that loco’s decoder,
an icon of the loco and a name.
4
Illustration 10
Illustration 11
Once the loco is on the list, you can select it by pressing the loco button on the lower right until
it appears on the screen, then press the red button. When the loco is selected on the screen it can be
edited with the pressing of the “shift” and loco button at the same time. This will give you the screen
in Illustration 12.
Changing the loco will take you through a series of
submenus such as “acceleration”, “deceleration”, changing the
loco’s name, the loco’s icon, functions and sound volume.
These screens can be seen in Illustrations 13 and 14.
Programming the locomotive will let you change the CVs, delete the loco, and write to the loco card
in the slot. These screens can be seen in Illustrations 15 and 16.
The other way to enter locos besides “Find”, mfx, and “Manual” is with the database. The loco
database is a list of hundreds of Märklin loco's in HO and 1 gauge formats in both digital and Delta.
When a loco is chosen off the list it comes with the loco’s item number (The number on the box and
in the catalog). When it is entered into the Mobile Station’s list it includes the name, picture and its
functions. These can be changed as previously discussed.
When the Mobile Station is connected to the Central Station the database is updated if a
newer one is available. Illustrations 17 and 18 show screens related to the database.
5
Illustration 12
Illustration 13
Illustration 14
Illustration 15 Illustration 16
When “From Database” is chosen in Illustration 17, you will get the screen shown in Illustration 18.
Notice the database items are reviewed with the scroll bar which is activated by the two buttons to
the right of the bar. One takes the list further up to lower item numbers and the other one takes the
list to higher item numbers. To select one of the items you would press the second or third button on
the left side of the Mobile Station. Do not turn the speed knob to scroll.
In Part 2 of this article in the next Newsletter, accessories (signals, turnouts, etc.) will be
discussed.
Looking for spare part numbers for Märklin items?
The following link takes you to the Märklin German web site service screens for finding part
numbers.
http://www.maerklin.de/d...e/suche/ersatzteile.html
The link below takes you to the Märklin Shop site where parts can be found. Only people in
the countries listed on the website can order them off this web page, however, North American
enthusiasts can order parts from their authorized dealer or from Walthers at www.walthers.com.
http://www.maerklinshop....?sid=925bda4d9dd41b03f09
4766803138f1f&cl=sparepartslists&gaugeid=2
Calibrating the Central Station Screen
Sometimes the calibration of the touch screen goes bad and what you touch with the finger or
stylus is not what you get. The “Setup” screen has a submenu “Calibrate” which will take you through
a series of crosshairs which you touch with the stylus or finger to align the touch screen with the
actual items shown on the screen.
Often when this happens you cannot touch the “CALIBRATE” submenu to activate it. In this
case you should connect a USB mouse to the USB port on the back and use the mouse arrow to
activate the “calibrate” submenu. If you don’t have a mouse arrow, there is an activation button in the
“View” submenu of the “Setup” screen. The “View” submenu can be seen in Illustration 19.
6
Illustration 17 Illustration 18
Mobile Station 1 versus Mobile Station 2
The old Mobile Station 60652 has an internal booster in each unit. The new Mobile Stations for
both Märklin 60653 and Trix 66950 are a pure control device that drives an external booster that can
be in the track connector box or the Central Station. This makes the new Mobile Station more
efficient and economical. When you had multiple units connected with the old Mobile Station, each
had its own booster which was redundant. The slave Stations had to bypass their boosters, but with
the new Station there is no slave and each Station is its own master and has its own list of locos.
Digital Hot Line
Help for your digital problems and questions is as convenient as a phone call or computer
connection. Remember, Tom Catherall operates a help line for all Digital Club members. For
assistance call:
(801) 489-8971 day time hot line
(801) 489-1087 FAX
e-mail = tom@marklin.com
7
FREE CD
Get a free CD with all the Digital Newsletters on it from the past 21 years in PDF format.
Simply sign up a friend as a member of The Digital Club for $12 domestic, $20 foreign and Canada
or $8.00 Email delivery for domestic or foreign. Then e-mail your name and postal address to Tom
Catherall at the email noted above and he will send you the FREE CD.
To sign up a new member, either do it on Märklin’s web page (WWW.marklin.com) or send
their name, address and check payable to Märklin, Inc. (or credit card number) to Michelle at:
Märklin, Inc./Digital Club
PO Box 510559
New Berlin WI 53151-0559m
Digital Newsletter Now Available via E-mail
The Digital Newsletter has subscribers throughout the U.S. and Canada, and more than
twenty-five countries around the globe. We have recently fielded some requests from subscribers
both near and far requesting we send their bi-monthly newsletter via e-mail rather than snail mail. We
are pleased to respond to this request by offering all of our members the option of receiving their
newsletter via e-mail. The new e-mail distribution service began with the May/June 2007 issue of the
newsletter. To sign up for the Digital Newsletter e-mail distribution service, please e-mail your name
and e-mail address to Michelle Gurski at Märklin, Inc. using this e-mail address: club@marklin.com.
Please type “Digital Newsletter” in the subject line of your e-mail.
For those members who do not utilize e-mail, please rest assured we will continue to mail you
a printed copy of the newsletter.
märklin
DIGITAL_____________
P.O. Box 510559
New Berlin, WI 53151-0559

So both MS2 have the complete loco databases for both Marklin and Trix?

I guess when you select a loco for control it sends commands to that loco in the approriate format (DCC, MM, etc)?

The pieces of the puzzle are coming together now. I found a DCC Wiki page that helped a bit as well.



It would be great if someone could verify if this 100% correct. Then I guess it would come down to colour choice. Too bad Marklin didn't make them with interchangable faceplates and buttons. They could sell a variety of colours or even custom ones.

Darren

The Marklin MS2 does not appear to have any Trix items in its database.

tonights 11.10 rocker special has just gone through
we just had another big aftershock

Hang in there mate, at least you Cantabrians can handle it a lot better than others "up north"

23:10

Our notification from Geonet

Earthquake Report: 11:10 PM on 05/10/2010 4.2 30 km SE of Darfield

GEOLOGICAL & NUCLEAR SCIENCES
GeoNet Data Centre, Lower Hutt, New Zealand
http://www.geonet.org.nz

PRELIMINARY EARTHQUAKE INFORMATION


The following earthquake has been recorded by GNS:

Reference number: 3383183/G
Universal Time: 2010/10/05 10:10:55
Local time (NZDT): 11:10 PM on Tuesday 05 October 2010
Latitude, Longitude: 43.63S, 172.44E
NZ Map Grid (E, N): 2465000, 5731000
NZ Trans Merc (E, N): 1555000, 5170000
Location: 30 km south-east of Darfield
Focal depth: 12
Magnitude: 4.2

Web page: http://www.geonet.org.nz...ake/quakes/3383183g.html
Web service: http://www.geonet.org.nz/services/quake/3383183g

Widely felt in Canterbury.

Link to The Big One

well goofy
i suppose anything is possible but the slow change of the older points was something that often created problems
and the clear positive change of the digital system to me seems good and is a very quiet change just a simple click
and you know it has done it were as the older ones, you would hear it start but sometimes it only half changed which
made operating problems so for me the new digital change is a vast improvement, but the marklin motors could be exchanged
for a slow type if that is what you want if mounted under neath the bench but the digital system seems almost to have a small
capacitor building up a charge so when you ask it to change it discharges and bang its done which stops motors burning out
regards
old toot

Hi, Ray!

I tried that today, using a Märklin 4411 freight car which has a light bulb connected between centre and outer rails, cover was removed.

Tried it on a track powered by CU 6021 (DIP switch 2 on, all others off): no flicker.
Tried it on a track powered by Intellibox: no flicker.
Tried it on a track powered by MS2 & connection box: no flicker.

The car was standing; light flickers when the car moves (contact problem).

LEDs would flicker, but light bulbs should not flicker.

The lamps in Märklin models with 6080 or 6090 decoder are flickering - but this is a different story.

I perceive a CRT monitor running at 75 Hz or less as flickering.
85 Hz or more is OK.

Trix MS2 is also for all DCC layouts on which you can find several different brands ....I would be surprised to find any Trix data base into Trix MS2. It has less sense than for Marklin 3 rails. Excepted a pre-registered lok in a starter box...may be

Hearsay from Stummi's Forum said the brain was in the box.
Hearsay from Stummi's Forum also said that Master and Slave no longer existed.

Now I wonder if there is any brain in the whole system coz when using two MS2s it appears like a brainless design.
There is neither Master nor Slave, there are two independent systems that do not communicate nor co-operate; one is CAN-bus Master and gets all mfx locos, the slave won't get any mfx locos (unless I missed something).

It's said that MS2 communicates via CAN bus with the grey bus which then generates the the track protocol and the track power.
Therefore the cable to the MS2 is thinner and more flexible (only 4 wires used).

A Trix database would make sense for all locos with pre-installed decoders and more than just plain vanilla functions (f0 and f4).
These cannot be too many.
Wouldn't be a big advantage, but would be an outstanding feature.

Informative (and entertaining) thread.
My question:
I want to digitalize my Z track with factory loc motors that only allow 10-12V 'dc' (v. 16-18V for HO). Can I use the MS2 (or other controller) with lower input voltage (transformer/switcher) to produce lower track voltage for Z?
Ben

The announced (I think not yet available) 60151 has a switch to select 19V or 22V, so as it doesn't have 15V it was not designed to address the Minitrix needs...
The existing 60041 has a switch to select 15V or 19V, so if 15V is selected it addresses better the Minitrix needs (as much as I understadn).




Edit: Corrected voltages and usage of the 60151. Added 60041 information.

Edited by user 23 November 2023 12:19:28(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I edited my post (#39) in this thread.

Hi Ben
Minirix is suggesting to use lower voltages for their small motors. This goes for digital too.
Neither Märklin nor Trix are involved in Z digital but their motors require even smaller voltage (10 VDC) so with an MS2, I suppose you need to plug a 12 VDC power supply onto the 60116 track box. I say I suppose because it is not within the specified voltages and because - as you write - Z motors require reduced voltages.
Cheers
Jean