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Offline Breitenfurt  
#1 Posted : 23 June 2010 00:12:54(UTC)
Breitenfurt


Joined: 01/01/2008(UTC)
Posts: 874
Location: Scotland
Here in Scotland we have 37 level crossings with full barriers, 32 with partial barriers and 23 open, or unmanned, crossings. Many of the latter are located in the Highlands (where I live). As far as I know, all crossings on public highways do have lights and audible warnings when a train is approaching (within about 20 seconds) but in spite of this there have been several accidents in the last year where the inevitable car-meets-train confrontation has ended up with mangled vehicles and, in some cases, deaths. Stands to reason really. 150 tonnes vs 1 tonne; who wins? Most of the drivers concerned wouldn't think twice about running a red traffic light so why to they run the lights on crossings? This evening, on Reporting Scotland, several instances of VERY close encounters between vehicles and trains were shown - it made us cringe. Sadly, I have not been able to find a link to the video footage but there is a webpage with a news item and this includes an excerpt from a recent radio broadcast. You can see it here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/...and_islands/10365997.stm

As the subject line asks, "Is this a peculiarly British problem or is it worldwide - level crossings?"

All the best,
Chris.
Offline dntower85  
#2 Posted : 23 June 2010 00:27:25(UTC)
dntower85

United States   
Joined: 08/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,218
Location: Shady Shores, TX - USA
Nope we have stupid people here in the states that will try to beet the train across or even go around barriers because they just don't want to wait.
I see people every day stop on track that are near intersections with a traffic light. Even though there are large signs saying "Do Not Stop on Tracks"
DT
Now powered by ECoS II unit#2, RocRail
era - some time in the future when the space time continuum is disrupted and ICE 3 Trains run on the same rails as the Adler and BR18's.
Offline kimballthurlow  
#3 Posted : 23 June 2010 02:23:01(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,765
Location: Brisbane, Australia
There have been many deaths in Aaustralia.
In fact a lorry driver was convicted of manslaughter in 2009, when the train he hit killed 9 persons.
That crossing was protected by flashing lights.
It is sad reality.
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#4 Posted : 23 June 2010 03:41:59(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,778
Location: New Zealand
I think it is a worldwide problem. A friend told me this morning that a car which was hit by a train at a level crossing has been placed in the foyer of Wellington Railway Station as a reminder of what can happen at crossings.
Offline kimballthurlow  
#5 Posted : 23 June 2010 04:05:55(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,765
Location: Brisbane, Australia
One method that might reduce the incidence, is to put audible and visual warnings in all vehicle navigation devices, sat navs etc, for the road users.
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline muzza  
#6 Posted : 23 June 2010 05:52:15(UTC)
muzza

Australia   
Joined: 13/05/2010(UTC)
Posts: 122
kimballthurlow wrote:
One method that might reduce the incidence, is to put audible and visual warnings in all vehicle navigation devices, sat navs etc, for the road users.


I agree but when you consider how serious the consequences of an accident are and how easy it is for the driver who realises the consequences to look and drive safely I think we cannot save some people from themselves. As previous posts have indicated we can put up all the appropriate warnings but some drivers just ignore them. I fear such a notification would just be another warning ignored.

regards

Murray
Offline river6109  
#7 Posted : 23 June 2010 09:20:10(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,878
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
It is every driver attitude towards traffic, regardless, trains, trucks, pedestrians, traffic lights, pedestrian crossings, schoolzones restriction etc. etc.

What gets me, you travel along a road (80km/h) and you are approaching red trafficlights.
The car behind you travelles at 100km/h and inidcates to you, move over.
I think, where is he or she going with red traffic lights.
It is'nt about speed, it is, I own this road and therefore I can drive with no regulations and can choose the speed I feel is right for me.

The other reason is: it's all about "ME".
I can do what ever I feel like doing, it usually works fine while you sit at home and get supported by your family, than you buy a high powered car with a good stereo radio so you can blast the music(?) to its highest value.

Fatique: you drive along a nice countryroad, no one around, nice suroundings, lovely scenery, the only noise: the engine and the radio or cd and if you are within reach of a mobile phone receiving tower, a conversation on the phone isn't out of question, your attention is now directed at the next party and you loose the will to drive, your driving behaviour is becoming erratic, your car is'nt travelling in a straight line anymore.

Statistics alos show, some fatal accidents occur near your home, you relax, you're thoughts are already at home, getting on with your train layout, how you're going to fix the tracks onto your board and you've got a visual picture in front of you, of your new loco or carriage.
Your attention to concentration, visual observation and being aware you're driving a car is out the window.

I'm in a hurry: How many times have I travelled in my car and being overtaken by another car being in a hurry and by doing this going well over the speed limit.
Who sits at the next traffic lights, yes its the same car, the next traffic lights, the same car, in one instance I've travelled over 20km/h and the car did'nt get any further.

The type of car you drive:
Why is it, people with luxury cars always have to be faster than you ?
Is it, because they can afford speeding fines.

Than there are Sunday drivers, which can cause accidents, slow drivers who don't know were they are going,
and of course drivers, who have the ability to do multi functions while driving, smoking, talking on the phone and re-constructing their face all at the same time.

There are also exceptional circumstances, e.g. stealing a car, driving without a licence, driving not having a licence, driving under the influence of drugs, driving at an age of, by standing up in the car, starting at 10.

The problem with public transport is, the industrial revolution never looks back what it was like before, without a car and we've never been able to meet the demand to get from point A to point B, because we are all in a hurry, for what ?
I'm going down the shop quick, I'll take the kids to school, I'll take the car for a service but you have to come along with your car, so I can drive myself back home.
I'm going to work, go shopping, go for a holiday, need to get out of the house.

I realize, having all these fatal car accidents shown on TV, does'nt make the slightest difference.
Young people don't watch the news and if they would, it never happens to me.

John





https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline sjlauritsen  
#8 Posted : 23 June 2010 10:49:35(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
river6109 wrote:
I'm in a hurry: How many times have I travelled in my car and being overtaken by another car being in a hurry and by doing this going well over the speed limit.
Who sits at the next traffic lights, yes its the same car, the next traffic lights, the same car, in one instance I've travelled over 20km/h and the car did'nt get any further.


I just love when this happens and it do happen a lot. :-) Some people does not seem to get, that speeding will not win you more than a couple of minutes at max. I once measured how long time it took to drive from one town to another on a Danish motorway. With 130 km/h it took about 12 minutes, with only a 100 km/h it took about 15 minutes. Yup, that's 3 minutes longer! Who can't live with that? I can, because it actually saved me a lot of fuel. :-)
Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
Offline xxup  
#9 Posted : 23 June 2010 11:23:18(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,603
Location: Australia
kimballthurlow wrote:
One method that might reduce the incidence, is to put audible and visual warnings in all vehicle navigation devices, sat navs etc, for the road users.


And a device to send 10,000 volts to the driver's testicles when the approach is not slow enough... Scared
Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
Offline river6109  
#10 Posted : 23 June 2010 13:02:26(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,878
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
xxup wrote:
kimballthurlow wrote:
One method that might reduce the incidence, is to put audible and visual warnings in all vehicle navigation devices, sat navs etc, for the road users.


And a device to send 10,000 volts to the driver's testicles when the approach is not slow enough... Scared


I've been told, there seems to be a lot of work involved to fit testicles to a womans body BigGrin.
On the other hand we had scenarios when captured people did'nt reveal their screts quick enough, one solution was, to hurry up the process, by attaching electrical wires to his testicles, rush through a high voltahge charge, so the person in question, can re-arrange his brains memory a bit quicker.
It works for some but not for other authorities.ThumbDown ThumpUp

Road Transport Authority:

Mrs Speed,

We are asking you, to present yourself to our inspection unit in the next week or so, we would like to fit some testicles to your body, so you can help us to reduce the national respond time.

Talking about 10.000 volts.
Yesterday a 19 year old driver escaped from death when speed was the fatal attraction.
His car, (a Honda) [(Advertising slogan: have to have a Honda)] hit a kerb, got airborne, crashed through a fence, flipped and landed upside down
in an electrical substation.
While flying through the air, the car tripped a circuit breaker and landed within a 66,000 volt zone, lucky for the driver, this section had been isolated by the circuit breaker.

I can assure you he would'nt had any testicles left.

Here is the official report:

A teenage motorist flipped his Honda sedan 30 metres into Western Power's Willagee substation overnight, sparking an emergency recovery operation.Insp. Trevor Davis said the 19-year-old driver escaped the crash with minor facial injuries.

The cause of the crash was unclear but Insp. Davis said it appeared the local man was speeding down Garling Street about 7.30pm when he hit a kerb at the corner of Bowen Street and became airborne.

The car crashed through a fence before landing upside down on a bank of high voltage capacitors.

A Western Power worker said the man was lucky not to have been killed by wires carrying 66,000 volts.

He said the impact of the car hitting the substation tripped out power to the affected section and saved the man's life.

This morning Insp. Mal Anderson said fuel was leaking from the vehicle and police and fire fighters were forced to wait for Western Power to make the area safe before they approached the scene.

Insp. Anderson said when officers finally got access to the car the driver was not inside.

Police are questioning the driver after he went to Fremantle Hospital with head injuries. Alcohol was not believed to have been a factor.


John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline husson73  
#11 Posted : 23 June 2010 14:33:28(UTC)
husson73


Joined: 20/05/2010(UTC)
Posts: 105
Location: Paris - France
worldwide trouble, there are always stupids who cross the level crossing after the red lights are on!!!!!!
they decided in France to fit fix cameras on some levels crossing to catch some idiotsAngry
3 rails HO OO O I, DC and AC, analogic and digital.
Offline Macfire  
#12 Posted : 23 June 2010 14:56:44(UTC)
Macfire


Joined: 04/11/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,652
Location: New Zealand
Another option is to bring back the old fashioned steam-engine cow catchers.
Fling the offending vehicle off to one side and carry on with the journey........
Lord Macca
New Zealand branch of Clan Donald.
Offline David Dewar  
#13 Posted : 24 June 2010 01:02:49(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,464
Location: Scotland
I blame Australian Audi drivers. If we all drove a Volvo (all Volvo drivers are top class and very safe drivers) thne everything would be OK.

Dave
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline ozzman  
#14 Posted : 24 June 2010 02:04:48(UTC)
ozzman

Australia   
Joined: 23/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,828
Location: Sydney, Australia
Macfire wrote:
Another option is to bring back the old fashioned steam-engine cow catchers.
Fling the offending vehicle off to one side and carry on with the journey........


An excellent suggestion! 100% endorsed! ThumpUp Why should the actions of one drongo hold up a whole train load of people?
Gary
Z Scale
"Never let the prototype get in the way of a good layout"
Offline ozzman  
#15 Posted : 24 June 2010 02:06:23(UTC)
ozzman

Australia   
Joined: 23/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,828
Location: Sydney, Australia
David Dewar wrote:
I blame Australian Audi drivers. If we all drove a Volvo (all Volvo drivers are top class and very safe drivers) thne everything would be OK.

Dave


Hello Mr Flash Dave. Are Australian Kia drivers OK? Unsure
Gary
Z Scale
"Never let the prototype get in the way of a good layout"
Offline muzza  
#16 Posted : 24 June 2010 02:38:51(UTC)
muzza

Australia   
Joined: 13/05/2010(UTC)
Posts: 122
xxup wrote:
kimballthurlow wrote:
One method that might reduce the incidence, is to put audible and visual warnings in all vehicle navigation devices, sat navs etc, for the road users.


And a device to send 10,000 volts to the driver's testicles when the approach is not slow enough... Scared


Now that would work (at least on me)but remember not all bad drivers are men so you may need a variation on a theme...Flapper
Offline kariosls37  
#17 Posted : 24 June 2010 03:35:27(UTC)
kariosls37

New Zealand   
Joined: 02/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,067
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Quote:
Macfire wrote:
Quote:
Another option is to bring back the old fashioned steam-engine cow catchers.
Fling the offending vehicle off to one side and carry on with the journey........


An excellent suggestion! 100% endorsed! Why should the actions of one drongo hold up a whole train load of people?


Umm, NZ never ditched the cowcatcher. I think we just need to ditch the health&safety paperwork.

Or re-introduce steam enginesThumpUp ThumpUp
Offline David Dewar  
#18 Posted : 24 June 2010 14:38:25(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,464
Location: Scotland
ozzman wrote:
David Dewar wrote:
I blame Australian Audi drivers. If we all drove a Volvo (all Volvo drivers are top class and very safe drivers) then everything would be OK.

Dave


Hello Mr Flash Dave. Are Australian Kia drivers OK? Unsure



Oz Kia drivers are indeed fine and are top class behind the wheel. I understand they also have a 7 year warranty which indicates their superiority over their Audi countertparts.

Flash
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline dntower85  
#19 Posted : 24 June 2010 19:20:48(UTC)
dntower85

United States   
Joined: 08/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,218
Location: Shady Shores, TX - USA
husson73 wrote:
worldwide trouble, there are always stupids who cross the level crossing after the red lights are on!!!!!!
they decided in France to fit fix cameras on some levels crossing to catch some idiotsAngry



At least they have news footage when there is a crash.



Another problem I see is when the signals are in disrepair and turn on when a train is not present, this rarely happens on main lines but some times on branch lines. Bad drives then seem to think that if the signal is on and they don't see a train, then the signal must be broke.

In the last few years or so the main lines have replace the signal boxes with new ones and added new bright white lights shining down the track so the engineer can see that the signal is in proper working order from a distance. Must give some peace of mind to the engineer to know when the train reaches the crossing the signal is working.

Then you have the really stupid people that think the train should stop from them.

DT
Now powered by ECoS II unit#2, RocRail
era - some time in the future when the space time continuum is disrupted and ICE 3 Trains run on the same rails as the Adler and BR18's.
Offline Loadmaster  
#20 Posted : 25 June 2010 01:57:22(UTC)
Loadmaster

United States   
Joined: 03/02/2010(UTC)
Posts: 898
Location: So Cal
In addition to the "ME" syndrone, there is lack of paying attention to ones surroundings. Los Angeles and Southern California are a car culture. The highway department has crossing gates on major highways, but people just drive around them and into the path of the train. Now, they are installing gates on all four quadrants at the crossings.
What is also interesting to watch are motorists on city streets where streetcars/trams operate and they just make left turns into the front or even the side of the vehicle. The media normally says that people are just not accustom to street cars and this is true in Phoenix, Arizona where they started a new system after 50 years without streetcars. They had several accidents the first week and even after 6 months, people just don't pay attention to their surroundings.
How many times have you seen drivers on their cell phones or texting ?????

Just my 2¢.

Robert

Edited by user 26 June 2010 07:16:21(UTC)  | Reason: grammar

HOac and Z scale running SBB/BLS Era IV-V
Offline Zora la rousse  
#21 Posted : 26 June 2010 00:05:07(UTC)
Zora la rousse


Joined: 02/10/2005(UTC)
Posts: 856
Location: ,
Pity, it is not much better in The Netherlands. If a railway must be updated, ProRail always tries to remove the railway crossings and replace them by bridges.
And please note that we have in The Netherlands much noisier bells, and more flashing lights, based on American practice.
You are never too late to become a Märklin fan.
Offline Goofy  
#22 Posted : 26 June 2010 12:25:06(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,290
Zora la rousse wrote:
Pity, it is not much better in The Netherlands. If a railway must be updated, ProRail always tries to remove the railway crossings and replace them by bridges.
And please note that we have in The Netherlands much noisier bells, and more flashing lights, based on American practice.


And yet...people are ignoring against warning!!!
It´s only smart people who stops in good time before railroad crossing!
While stupid people are fooling against byself!!!

BigGrin
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Fredrik  
#23 Posted : 27 June 2010 13:37:05(UTC)
Fredrik

Sweden   
Joined: 13/07/2004(UTC)
Posts: 642
Hi,

this is definitely a world-wide problem...! Being a 1:1 scale locomotive-engineer I occasionally encounter these #¤%¤&%!
but what's actually worse, are those people crossing the tracks (mostly in station areas) who think they 'see' everthing (including a closing train).

I wish Sweden had the british (happen to be in the UK right now) penalty for this - and someone who where authorized to claim it!

People simply doesn't have respect for the dangers, they actually believe a train can stop in front of them - well we can't! Therefore accidents happen - like the one in Spain just a few days ago...

Fredrik.
*ECoS 2 + ECoSDetector + SwitchPilot + ECoSTerminal; *Z21 + Loconet + Digikeijs + MGP; **CS3+ + CdB (** coming soon...)
WWW: MJ-fjärren
Offline Hemmerich  
#24 Posted : 29 June 2010 17:05:18(UTC)
Hemmerich


Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,734
Location: ,
-

Edited by user 20 November 2010 01:32:06(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Answ  
#25 Posted : 29 June 2010 17:45:02(UTC)
Answ


Joined: 16/06/2010(UTC)
Posts: 215
Location: WI, US
Same here in the U. S. One commuter line I used in Chicago used to have level crossings at a certain stretch, but apparently there were so many accidents, they lowered about 1 mile of the track into the ground and built bridges over it. Level crossings exist in the U. S. by the thousands. - no signs, signs, exempt signs, road signs, "Do Not Stop on Track" signs, "Stop Here (arrow pointing in front of the track) on Red)" signs, and lights, bells, train horns, everything, and accidents still happen. :P
- Anatole
Offline Breitenfurt  
#26 Posted : 04 July 2010 18:34:33(UTC)
Breitenfurt


Joined: 01/01/2008(UTC)
Posts: 874
Location: Scotland
Hi Guys.

I haven't been to this forum (or any others) for a while, relying on email reply notices to keep in touch, so was amazed to see how many messages there were here.

Most crossings in the Highlands are in remote areas where few trains run (less than 10 per day) so, in a way, I can understand that people, esp. tourists, could be taken by surprise on arriving at one, however well signposted. However, there are three crossings in Dingwall, at least one of which is on a road where there are several traffic lights as well. It got so bad that now the trains sound their horns and reduce speed to about 10mph (16km/h). Other crossings are so bad that the police have put up cameras which are triggered when a vehicle crosses the line while the lights are flashing, etc. They have also introduced a mobile camera. They showed a few of the videos on TV a while back. I was amazed at what people will do! Now there is a call to put in barriers at ALL level crossings but, at £1M (USD1.5M, EUR1.2M) a go, it would cost too much and the four north and west lines would probably just get closed.

Now I must go to "Forum Problems" to report the failure of the "Watch this topic" option.

All the best, and drive carefully,
Chris.
Offline atilla  
#27 Posted : 02 August 2010 14:58:58(UTC)
atilla


Joined: 13/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 381
Location: Richmond, Virginia
http://hamptonroads.com/...train-collision?cid=ltst

Happens all over. Although, it seems this crossing didn't have signs. This is really surprising to me as Amtrak isn't exactly ambling along. An older lady would be particularly vulnerable as one of the the problems with getting older is that your peripheral vision begins to decline.
Offline Macfire  
#28 Posted : 02 August 2010 17:50:37(UTC)
Macfire


Joined: 04/11/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,652
Location: New Zealand
Seems like nothing changes - only the date:

UserPostedImage

1946: Long Island Rail Road’s Safety reminder – Stop Look Listen at grade crossings
Lord Macca
New Zealand branch of Clan Donald.
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