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Offline Oscar  
#1 Posted : 17 January 2010 20:36:31(UTC)
Oscar


Joined: 25/11/2003(UTC)
Posts: 783
Location: ,
I was in the shop the other day and there was this Roco TEE diesel train at 50% off, based on an original that ran between Italy and the Côte d'Azur in France (one of Europe's most scenic routes). The model was yelling "Buy me, I'm yours!" and after making sure that it would actually work work with a Mobile Station and Märklin's C-rail R1 and R2 curves, I took my first Roco home. I'm a sucker for typical '50s design and this train is archetypical of that style, that's why I fell for it.

First impressions? Mixed bag, to be honest.

The Märklin quality experience begins with the boxes, which are both sturdy and stylish. The Roco box, however, is a flimsy affair that leaves me cold. The next shock comes when I actually remove the train from the box: it's so light, so plastic-y, so fragile! What a difference from Märklin's heavy metal approach! Then I had to connect the two carriages to each other. That took me a long time. The connection felt so flimsy that I had to take great care not to damage anything. After some sweating and swearing, I finally got the two carriages hooked up. How I'm ever going to separate them again is a mystery - the coupling system seems to be a 1-way street. If the train ever needs to be put back in its box, then I'm in trouble.

Then, the first driving experience, which lasted until the first curve. Then, immediately, it derailed. The coupling between the two carriages was not fully swinging free. Took me another 15 minutes to fix that, after which the train drove quite nicely. It's quiet and smooth and it goes through any series of curves and turn-outs without problems. The decoder works fine and can be programmed easily with the Mobile Station. Watch out with tunnels!! The bogies are pretty far back and that big nose swings waaayyyyy out of the track. The carriages are very long, too: the train as a whole is appr. 65 centimeters in length so each carriage exceeds 30 centimeters, so any object put too close to a R1, R2 or even R3 curve or a turnout means serious trouble!!

I was a bit disappointed that there is no interior lighting, given that its full retail price is just over 300 euros (but, as said, I bought it for half that).

Upon close inspection, there turned out to be gaps between the various body parts and the buffers are at an angle, both of which can be seen in this photo:

UserPostedImage

Though easily fixed, stuff like that adds to the lo-fi feeling (though a 300 euro model should never feel lo-fi).

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

Last but not least, I tried to open up the motor car to take care of lubrication. This effort made two things abundantly clear: (a) the manual completely sucks and is useless, (b) God bless Märklin for their use of metal and simple things like screws (what a concept, screws!). So far, I have not been able to open up the model - I need to make a couple of shims from matches and then try again.

Conclusion? A well-driving and nice looking model. Worth what I paid for it, but not a penny more, due to its plastic-y vibe and all around sense of limited durability. Having said that, from a distance its total 1950's vibe is great, and that's what I bought it for.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Oscar
Offline al_pignolo  
#2 Posted : 17 January 2010 22:44:18(UTC)
al_pignolo


Joined: 30/09/2005(UTC)
Posts: 904
Location: bologna, BO
Hi Oscar. I have this train too and it is one of my favourite models, even if it is not Marklin (you can see it looking at my avatar RollEyes ). I have many Roco AC, and I like them, there is something better and something worse than Marklin. I agree with you about the difficulties on opening them, this is something they should change.
But the plastic is not always worse than metal: more details, no zinkpest (!), usually cheaper.
And the running of all my Rocos is not worse than marklin: smooth and powerful!

Pietro
Offline Frostie  
#3 Posted : 17 January 2010 23:53:09(UTC)
Frostie

United States   
Joined: 08/08/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,614
Location: Birmingham,Alabama
Nice Pictures, but it just has that plastically look. I appreciate your truthful comments
Train Collection Insured by "Croc's" with "Big Boys" as Backup"
CS/MS Digital Era 1/2
Apple Man iPhone / Macbook Pro / iPad - the end of the windows PC occurred on April 4, 2010.
Love those Era 1 Tank Locomotives - the more the merrier.

Offline TimR  
#4 Posted : 17 January 2010 23:55:46(UTC)
TimR

Indonesia   
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,752
Location: Jakarta
al_pignolo wrote:
But the plastic is not always worse than metal: more details, no zinkpest (!), usually cheaper.

Looking across a few forums, I think zinkpest only affected a few new Marklin models, namely Kof and Seetal Croc; again due to some dodgy quality control at the factory on certain batches..

Use of heavy metal frame and/or metal body is good for pulling power... but on two-car trainset like this, it is probably not really necessary to save on cost.

That said, thanks for the report & feedback on this Roco...
One of these days I have to get my first Roco AC and see for myself what the fuss is about..Smile
Now collecting C-Sine models.
Offline mike c  
#5 Posted : 18 January 2010 05:05:40(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
I do not have the Roco model of this TEE train. A similar coach did run on the Geneva-Milano route as TEE Lemano in the 1960s to mid 1970s. My collection is focused more on the Gotthard and Lake of Zuerich lines.
Some may prefer metal to plastic, but when you look at similar or equivalent models, even Maerklin has been using plastic for many years. The Maerklin models of the RAm TEE (3070/3071), The ICE and many other multiple unit trains have long had plastic shells on metal frames.
If Oscar's unit had some finish problems, this might account for why the item was on special. Roco did offer some discounts on AC models earlier this year, but I do not remember if the Mediolanum type trainset was on the list. Oscar also does not mention which dealer he bought the set from. I am pretty certain that the positive reviews of this model far outweigh the few negative reviews.
For those who want an alternative, there is the original Rivarossi model and a recent model (2008) from ACME.

Regards

Mike C
Offline Oscar  
#6 Posted : 18 January 2010 13:37:30(UTC)
Oscar


Joined: 25/11/2003(UTC)
Posts: 783
Location: ,
mike c wrote:
Oscar also does not mention which dealer he bought the set from.

I bought it new from a Märklin shop-in-shop in Holland, with full warranty.

If anyone can tell me how to safely disconnect the two carriages, then I'd be much obliged Confused .
Offline Soest  
#7 Posted : 18 January 2010 20:31:37(UTC)
Soest


Joined: 05/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 201
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
I purchased a Roco Krok last summer to which I am bonding quite well. It cost me 143 Euro with a regular price of 209 so it seemed worth a go to use as my everyday Krok. There are no illuminated lights since it has shunting platforms. What I like about it is that it drives through six axels in a prototypical manner with rubber drivers at both ends. The add on bits - stairs (which I finally glued) and couplings made me feel abit as if I was assembling a Revell plastic model. It also arrived without screws connecting the blind shafts to the side rods on one end. This took me several months to sort out. Now that all this is done my Roco Croc is running in nicely. It is very smooth at low speeds. To sum it up, Roco seems to be an adventure in locomotive procurement which can be rewarding in the end.
Why do grown men play with trains?
Their wives insist they are insane
But their dreams they won't let down the drain
'Cause there ain't no thing so hard to lose as those disappearing railway blues.
Offline Rinus  
#8 Posted : 18 January 2010 21:42:33(UTC)
Rinus


Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
Oscar wrote:
I bought it new from a Märklin shop-in-shop in Holland, with full warranty.

If anyone can tell me how to safely disconnect the two carriages, then I'd be much obliged Confused .


To be honnest, its not that difficult Oscar. Just take the train of the track, lay it upside down, take each side of the coupler between your fingers and pull em apart. They won't brake down, I promise. The coupler is no more or less delicate than most other electric couplers I've seen.

Here is a link to a describtion of my Tee Lemano: https://www.marklin-users.net/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=13743

I find it rather amusing that in this forum the idea still exits that plastic body shells are likely to fall apart when even toughed by a feather. Most Marklin coaches are made of plastic and do those fall apart all the time? Have you ever noticed that for example, the body of most RC Cars and RC Planes are made of plastic as well?

The driving capabilities of the beautifull trainset (we all agree about the wonderfull appearance of this model, dont we?ThumpUp ) require some thought indeed. This is a model and a very fine one. Due to its exact scale it accounts for over 31 cm for each unit. Thats long if your used to 1:93 or 1:100 coaches and have your lay-out build around these measurements. I experienced that myself too. Fortunately I'm in a possition to have a minimum radius of R3/R4 on my lay-out. It does that well, but to be honnest, I think 1:87 coaches and train sets deserve wider curves(R4 and up). I can imagine that it handles R2 and R3 with more problems. I guess thats the price you will have to pay for exact scale and fine details.

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Rinus
Offline Oscar  
#9 Posted : 19 January 2010 13:27:18(UTC)
Oscar


Joined: 25/11/2003(UTC)
Posts: 783
Location: ,
Evil R wrote:
To be honnest, its not that difficult Oscar. Just take the train of the track, lay it upside down, take each side of the coupler between your fingers and pull em apart. They won't brake down, I promise. The coupler is no more or less delicate than most other electric couplers I've seen.

OK, thanks!

Evil R wrote:
I find it rather amusing that in this forum the idea still exits that plastic body shells are likely to fall apart when even toughed by a feather. Most Marklin coaches are made of plastic and do those fall apart all the time?

It's the fact that I have to bend the body outwards in order to get it off that worries me. It's not really sturdy plastic and the plastic handrails near the doors and the windows look very fragile to me. With Märklin, my experience is that you can dismantle a model quite fast and safely (although my new BR23 steamer is an exercise in care and patience).

Evil R wrote:
we all agree about the wonderfull appearance of this model, dont we?ThumpUp

I do!!
Offline RayF  
#10 Posted : 19 January 2010 14:40:01(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Marklin have made many plastic locos and railcar sets in the past. It's interesting to see that they are, in general, going back to using metal for the "high end" products.

There are advantages and disadvantages associated with both materials, but one not mentioned here is that plastics often warp after some time. I have some old coaches that are begimnning to look more like bananas!

Another unwanted property of plastic is that it is naturally translucent, and sometimes you have to work quite hard to stop light shining through.

I hope, of course, that none of these apply to this fine model, which I also agree is quite beautiful!

My only experience so far of a Roco locomotive is my Belgian class 59 diesel. I bought it because it was much cheaper than the marklin model of this loco, and I was curious about how it compared. It is well made, but suffers from light "leakage" through the plastic body. The printing of the colours is also not as crisp as on the Marklin model. In terms of performance, it is smooth and very quiet, but tends to be intolerant of dirty tracks. It stutters and stops at the smallest hint of dirt, which is frustrating!

Thanks for an interesting and informative topic, Oscar, and I hope you get many hours of enjoyment from your train!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline river6109  
#11 Posted : 19 January 2010 15:12:02(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
These TEE colour are very refreshing.
This model is very fine examples of "have to have them".

John

Edited by user 28 May 2010 18:08:30(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Rinus  
#12 Posted : 19 January 2010 20:47:43(UTC)
Rinus


Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
Oscar wrote:
OK, thanks!


It's the fact that I have to bend the body outwards in order to get it off that worries me. It's not really sturdy plastic and the plastic handrails near the doors and the windows look very fragile to me. With Märklin, my experience is that you can dismantle a model quite fast and safely (although my new BR23 steamer is an exercise in care and patience).


I do!!


It won't brake for sure. I had to open the body for over quite a few times in order to install the Lissy decoder right. In fact its quite flexible. But your right in the fact that most Marklin trains are easier to open (apart from their Crocodile Ce6/8 Cursing )

The nose section (bottom side) comes a bit lose after opening the body. Be sure to press it a bit, it looks much nicer.

One last tip: if you have steem climbs, chanche the standard rubber tires for Marklin ones, the are much better when it comes to traction.

I'm still in doubt wether a sound decoder will fit. I've seen a movie posted of one equiped with sound, but I'n not sure if there is sufficient room.
Offline river6109  
#13 Posted : 20 January 2010 06:37:59(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
R. Evil wrote:

One last tip: if you have steem climbs, chanche the standard rubber tires for Marklin ones, the are much better when it comes to traction.



I would be very careful of changing them with Märklin rubber tyres, somtimes their wheel profile recess does'nt match with the Märklin Rubber tyre.
Another + for the Roco tyre is, it does'nt stretch as easily as Märklin ones.

My experience with taking Roco locos and coaches apart are not as easy as done.
You do need extreme patience and care just enough force to seperate the plastic parts from each other.
some may come apart easy and others are damm hard to seperate.
Sometimes you wedge your fingernail between the 2 parts and suddenly the almost whole carriage parts fall in to your hand or suroundings.
give yourself enough room in case this happens.
I've never broken anything except the step on or at the end of a carriage by holding the carriage tied.
My reasons for opening the carriages in the first place was for adding electrical couplings and self constructed interior lights.
I do not not recomment a screwdriver to wedge between the plastic components as you will find it will leave a wedge mark behind.
Always follow instructions and if unsure ask the forum.
Although I've re-glued the steps with superlue, try to avoid to break them off in the first place.
When seperating a coach also remove the bogies first so you have less parts flying about.
To push or open carriages from buffers is also not recommended.
Most buffers (coaches) are pushed in and putting excessive pressure onto these buffers will damage the inserts.
Roco Loco buffers are more robust.



https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline spitzenklasse  
#14 Posted : 20 January 2010 18:47:52(UTC)
spitzenklasse


Joined: 06/04/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,573
Location: ,
I also have Roco trains. I agree about the tyres, though not a big issue. The puffers are easily adjusted as long as they don't break off, then need to be glued back on (if you find them). They do run well. the br111 electric tends to vibrate some, but is a strong puller. The ET420 emu is a nice set. The brE91 is geared to run slow, but has good torque.
Offline Oscar  
#15 Posted : 21 January 2010 13:19:25(UTC)
Oscar


Joined: 25/11/2003(UTC)
Posts: 783
Location: ,
I'd say the Italians can be credited for manufacturing both some of the uglies and some of the most beautiful trains ever. The Settebello/ETR300 is another '50s winner from Italy:

UserPostedImage

Can't remember ever seeing this one in H0.
Offline Rinus  
#16 Posted : 21 January 2010 13:45:52(UTC)
Rinus


Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
This model is/will be offered by ACME in Dc. To bad ACME seems to concentrate on DC, they are true masters of detailing.

http://www.acmetreni.it/index.p...p;view=article&id=70

Edited by user 21 January 2010 22:39:42(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline dntower85  
#17 Posted : 21 January 2010 15:55:01(UTC)
dntower85

United States   
Joined: 08/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,218
Location: Shady Shores, TX - USA
Oscar wrote:
I'd say the Italians can be credited for manufacturing both some of the uglies and some of the most beautiful trains ever. The Settebello/ETR300 is another '50s winner from Italy:

UserPostedImage

Can't remember ever seeing this one in H0.


As ugly as it might be the panoramic view must of been spectacular.ThumpUp

but it does kind of look like the Oscar Mayer Wienermobile http://www.reedberry.com/wienermobile.html
Flapper
DT
Now powered by ECoS II unit#2, RocRail
era - some time in the future when the space time continuum is disrupted and ICE 3 Trains run on the same rails as the Adler and BR18's.
Offline Rinus  
#18 Posted : 21 January 2010 22:43:25(UTC)
Rinus


Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
The ETR300 is as elegant as a train can get, just like the ALn 448.

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage


Offline spitzenklasse  
#19 Posted : 23 January 2010 17:25:08(UTC)
spitzenklasse


Joined: 06/04/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,573
Location: ,
ThumpUp Yes, and their paint schemes
sometimes resemble spaghetti stripes. I think the phallic looking train above is the "Grand Tourismo" and ran from Milan to rome in the 1960's.
Offline Oscar  
#20 Posted : 28 May 2010 13:57:51(UTC)
Oscar


Joined: 25/11/2003(UTC)
Posts: 783
Location: ,
About a month or two ago, I decided to put it up for sale. Not that it's a bad model - far from it, it's a great model! The main reason is the scale difference between my Märklin models and this Roco. This model doesn't look right on R1 or R2 curves, it needs at least R3 and preferably R4. My house doesn't accommodate such large curves Crying.

Anyway, to my surprise I still have not sold it. Very few people are interested and the ones who are don't want to pay a fair market price for it. It's still under warranty and hasn't done more than a few hours on the lay-out.

This adventure should teach me to stick with Märklin, even though other brands make great stuff too. I was planning on buying some very nice Artitec coaches but I will refrain.
Offline husson73  
#21 Posted : 28 May 2010 14:51:29(UTC)
husson73


Joined: 20/05/2010(UTC)
Posts: 105
Location: Paris - France
There is a peculiar reason which could explain why you still hav'nt sold it.
Roco and usual other 2 R brand which made some 3R are bought by a few of us new if we have interested; but it's a small market and if we haven't decided buying it new, we mostly have no interest buying it use.
3 rails HO OO O I, DC and AC, analogic and digital.
Offline mike c  
#22 Posted : 28 May 2010 21:20:59(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
delete
Offline Frankenbahner  
#23 Posted : 29 May 2010 13:27:29(UTC)
Frankenbahner


Joined: 15/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 625
Location: Nuremberg, Bavaria
If only a few AC friends are buying non-Märklin AC products, why are such items offered by nearly every DC brand?

The AC market is a market the DC manufacturers can’t ignore any longer – they even have been ignoring it for a much too long time.

Among all the model train friends I know personally who run AC, there are actually only a few Märklin purists left. And the number of Märklin purists is dwindling more and more.

The reason for an Italian AC model not selling so well may be the fact that Italy itself is a DC market, and those who model Italian prototypes outside Italy also select DC due to the wider range of available models. Running an Italian layout with AC would mean you would have to convert most of your locos. The same applies for French or Benelux layouts. AC is mainly concentrated on the German speaking countries, no wonder that German and Swiss AC items sell best. And even there, there are several areas which are either strong DC or TT markets.

To be honest: if Märklin would be the only manufacturer for AC trains still today, I would certainly have changed to DC years ago (and converted my Märklin locos to this system).

Regards,
Florian
H0 3-rail AC with DCC, MM and mfx, 2-rail DC streetcars, and N gauge
Offline sjlauritsen  
#24 Posted : 30 May 2010 18:48:59(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Frankenbahner wrote:
The reason for an Italian AC model not selling so well may be the fact that Italy itself is a DC market, and those who model Italian prototypes outside Italy also select DC due to the wider range of available models. Running an Italian layout with AC would mean you would have to convert most of your locos. The same applies for French or Benelux layouts. AC is mainly concentrated on the German speaking countries, no wonder that German and Swiss AC items sell best. And even there, there are several areas which are either strong DC or TT markets.


Hey Florian

I think you are absolutely right. Where I live, in Denmark, the hobby is divided around 50/50 on the 3-rail / 2-rail question. I myself model 2-rail, but I enjoy the products from all manufacturers including Märklin. I only know a few purists and to them its more a collecting thing, than the actual interest in trains.

In Denmark most people that run 3-rail have products form a wide range of manufacturers, where Heljan, Hobbytrade and Roco are the most popular, because they produce the most Danish themed models.
Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
Offline TimR  
#25 Posted : 31 May 2010 03:39:27(UTC)
TimR

Indonesia   
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,752
Location: Jakarta
Oscar wrote:

Anyway, to my surprise I still have not sold it
...
This adventure should teach me to stick with Märklin, even though other brands make great stuff too.


Back a few years ago when I was deciding whether to go with Marklin,
I watched the local second hand market for a while and come to the conclusion that the buyer expectation tends to be favor price premium on second hand Marklins over any other European brands.

Nothing to do with AC/DC IMO; just that the brand name "Marklin" seems to carry a lot more value.

In saying that, I think Florian also has the point in regards to your specific model.

Italian models are unfamiliar to the average Marklin buyers, who usually put emphasis on Northern European, specifically German or Swiss models.

I've seen a few 3-rail Fleischmann flying off the shelves in recent months - but these has been German steamers - which are usually quite an easy sell regardless of brand.

I would hazard a guess that a Roco-made German steamers would do equally ok in the second hand market, depending on the price.
For example, if you buy their current BR03.10 (and having seen one up close and personal it's a very beautiful model IMO) - you'll be unlikely to get your money back when trying to sell it to AC buyers, mostly because most Marklin AC steamers undercut its price by significant margin.



Now collecting C-Sine models.
Offline Hemmerich  
#26 Posted : 01 June 2010 16:40:05(UTC)
Hemmerich


Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,734
Location: ,
-


Edited by user 21 November 2010 01:54:25(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline Frankenbahner  
#27 Posted : 06 June 2010 16:51:15(UTC)
Frankenbahner


Joined: 15/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 625
Location: Nuremberg, Bavaria
sjlauritsen wrote:
Hey Florian

I think you are absolutely right. Where I live, in Denmark, the hobby is divided around 50/50 on the 3-rail / 2-rail question. I myself model 2-rail, but I enjoy the products from all manufacturers including Märklin. I only know a few purists and to them its more a collecting thing, than the actual interest in trains.

In Denmark most people that run 3-rail have products form a wide range of manufacturers, where Heljan, Hobbytrade and Roco are the most popular, because they produce the most Danish themed models.


In the Nuremberg region, most fellow model railroaders run DC, but there is also a number of AC friends. Purists are very rare to find here around. The same applies for the rest of Bavaria, while neighbouring Baden-Wurttemberg is something like the heartland of Märklin, where you'll find larger number of Märklin purists.

But back in the days when Märklin was the only AC manufacturer, many Märklin buyers changed to DC due to the better choice and the chance to run trains of different brands on the same track. In German model train magazines, one could read many of these stories over the years. In the days the K track many also changed to DC, in fact, the M track was a reason for many to change to DC, because they wanted something more prototypical and Märklin didn't have an alternative.

In the days I started my hobbies, such questions were a thing of the past, one could stay with AC and enjoy the products of many different firms as well.

Today I have a mixed layout with AC for “heavy rail” and a DC section for the streetcars.

Regards,
Florian
H0 3-rail AC with DCC, MM and mfx, 2-rail DC streetcars, and N gauge
Offline Frankenbahner  
#28 Posted : 06 June 2010 16:57:39(UTC)
Frankenbahner


Joined: 15/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 625
Location: Nuremberg, Bavaria
Hemmerich wrote:

2. (Not only) my findings are that ROCO model prices have been rising VERY much during the last years. Except for those hobby lines found with various manufacturers, "plastic" models appear to be no longer less expensive than those Märklin "metal blocks".


The prices of nearly all European brands have been rising, not only those of Roco and Märklin….

Quote:

Oscar, your experiences are shared by many, many Märklin fans. Unfortunately most "typical" 2-rail manufacturers don't spend sufficient engineering into their 3-rail model versions to make them run/operate as well seamless. ROCO has been knowingly active in the 3-rail segment for decades, but they still offer models today which are not always very suited for those operational conditions or bear other potential displeasing deficiencies (got my latest "surprise" just again last week with my new ROCO aquisitions).


Sorry, but I don’t see any sense in such general statements: as long as no specific models are mentioned, no problems can be discussed. Moreover, if someone is a “Märklin fan”, or has been running only Märklin products for many years, he will probably have a more critical view on non-Märklin AC products, when trying them for the first time.

Regards,
Florian
H0 3-rail AC with DCC, MM and mfx, 2-rail DC streetcars, and N gauge
Offline Oscar  
#29 Posted : 06 June 2010 19:18:18(UTC)
Oscar


Joined: 25/11/2003(UTC)
Posts: 783
Location: ,
This model has found a happy new owner!
Offline dragos  
#30 Posted : 09 June 2010 01:01:21(UTC)
dragos


Joined: 06/11/2006(UTC)
Posts: 40
Location: Sweden
Oscar:
Sorry that you had to separate from your beautiful modell. I'm a really fan of those italian designed cars.
I'm myself happy owner of a couple of Roco 3r modells, one Br50 üK, one Br E10 and a Br E03-002. They all looks and run great. They are running extremely smooth and negotiate all my turn-outs and R2 curves of my small lay-out effortless. The only drawback is that the light leaks through the body shell as it is made of plastic. This is a easy fix: some black paint on the inside of the body shell will do. But still, they lack that Märklin feeling, wich is so difficult to point out.
Offline river6109  
#31 Posted : 09 June 2010 08:43:26(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
I find it a bit curious about Roco models not being able to handle tighter curves.
I must admit having bought a new model, one should'nt have to fiddle around with it to get it properly going on the tracks.
Having a slightly crooked buffer is my last worry, these can either be glued on or slightly moved into the correct position.
Having gaps between housing parts, usually they haven't been clicked together properly.
To press the plastic housing outwards on Roco models has never been a problem with me and never did I think they're going to break. Their elasticity is remarkable.
I'm also a bit curious about buying unidentified Roco models off and on and than making constant negative remarks about them.
My understanding is, if I'm not happy with a product, a.) first purchase, well I see how the second one turns out, b.) second purchase, well it happened again but I'm sure by the third purchase one would have enough brains to think twice to purchase another one.
Although I've changed some of my Roco models and only resently, to my horror, my little Austrian diesel loco would'nt go past a sleek k - track turnout.
I thought it was the safety plough in front of the loco, being to close to the middle rail studs, so I cut a triangle into the safety plough, the same thing happened again.
I finally found out, the movable inner tongue did'nt turn complete and this is why the loco stopped abruptly.

Sofar I have not found any Roco loco de-railing except for all locos de-railing occasionally going over several sleek k -track double turnouts.

John



https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Oscar  
#32 Posted : 09 June 2010 08:54:05(UTC)
Oscar


Joined: 25/11/2003(UTC)
Posts: 783
Location: ,
river6109 wrote:
I'm also a bit curious about buying unidentified Roco models off and on and than making constant negative remarks about them.

Not sure if I recognize myself in that. The main reason I let this model go is the scale difference. Putting it on a lay-out with Märklin models looks weird, the scale difference is huge. I had underestimated that. In terms of quality, it was more a question of adjusting my mindset and spending a little time with the model. After some fidgeting around with it, it ran very nicely indeed with no derailments at all. I'm not trying to be negative about Roco at all, it's just that this was my first Roco model, I bought it because I love that '50s design style so much + it was affordable. In the end, the lesson learned is that I'm more a Märklin man at heart and I should stick to it.
Offline TimR  
#33 Posted : 09 June 2010 11:58:59(UTC)
TimR

Indonesia   
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,752
Location: Jakarta
river6109 wrote:

I'm also a bit curious about buying unidentified Roco models off and on and than making constant negative remarks about them.
My understanding is, if I'm not happy with a product, a.) first purchase, well I see how the second one turns out, b.) second purchase, well it happened again but I'm sure by the third purchase one would have enough brains to think twice to purchase another one.


Well put..
it seems that this particular member like to point out that he have bought numerous Rocos, Brawas, Fleischmanns, HAGs etc;
only so that he could claim that he knows what he's talking about.....specifically when pointing out their numerous deficiencies as opposed to their Marklin equivalents.

Personally,
the constant Marklin advertising and at the same time, rubbishing of other brands starting to have the reverse effect on me..

I mean,
as the writer also try ever so hard to reinforce the notion that Marklin is 100% perfect,
and after buying dozens of Marklin product, I know for a fact that this is so untrue..

then maybe the reverse is true for all the other brands that he like to rubbish

namely they might actually gives better satisfaction as opposed to Marklin that I'm used to..

Now collecting C-Sine models.
Offline husson73  
#34 Posted : 09 June 2010 12:31:25(UTC)
husson73


Joined: 20/05/2010(UTC)
Posts: 105
Location: Paris - France
have Brawa, Roco, Hag, Fleischman 3R as well Marklin, all work perfect.
3 rails HO OO O I, DC and AC, analogic and digital.
Offline river6109  
#35 Posted : 09 June 2010 12:32:53(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Oscar wrote:
river6109 wrote:
I'm also a bit curious about buying unidentified Roco models off and on and than making constant negative remarks about them.

Not sure if I recognize myself in that. The main reason I let this model go is the scale difference. Putting it on a lay-out with Märklin models looks weird, the scale difference is huge. I had underestimated that. In terms of quality, it was more a question of adjusting my mindset and spending a little time with the model. After some fidgeting around with it, it ran very nicely indeed with no derailments at all. I'm not trying to be negative about Roco at all, it's just that this was my first Roco model, I bought it because I love that '50s design style so much + it was affordable. In the end, the lesson learned is that I'm more a Märklin man at heart and I should stick to it.


Oscar,
I appologize if you think the article was directed at you.
It was'nt.


In my opinion, your query was 100% legitimate and I'm sorry to hear your model did'nt work out the first time.
Is'nt the Roco model 1:87 ?


Lutz wrote:

Oscar, your experiences are shared by many, many Märklin fans. Unfortunately most "typical" 2-rail manufacturers don't spend sufficient engineering into their 3-rail model versions to make them run/operate as well seamless. ROCO has been knowingly active in the 3-rail segment for decades, but they still offer models today which are not always very suited for those operational conditions or bear other potential displeasing deficiencies (got my latest "surprise" just again last week with my new ROCO aquisitions).end of quote


What I,m against is, when someone writes about an unidentified model, criticises every bit about it and than makes a statement Märklin is much better.
Like me, talking about someone without putting a name to it.
I'm doing it again, feeding the troll.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Jos  
#36 Posted : 17 June 2010 02:46:23(UTC)
Jos


Joined: 14/06/2010(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: NL coast

Evil R wrote:
we all agree about the wonderfull appearance of this model, dont we?ThumpUp

I do!!


I'm a pure Marklinist but....I do have some other stuff like the Roco Melano;
http://wiki.3rail.nl/dok...modellen:roco:roco_69117

Bought this one in the Netherlands on first hand for about 50% of advised sales price. Did also have some problems on R1 but solved most of them by going half speed in that area's and moving some scenery away from the track.
ROCO documentation advises smallest R is R2 !! The model itself is very detailed and the connection of the 2 cars is less difficult as the Mä 3471.
So I would say ThumpUp
Jos


[i]TEE FAN [i]
Offline H0  
#37 Posted : 17 June 2010 13:05:41(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Jos wrote:
ROCO documentation advises smallest R is R2!!

If Roco writes "R2" they mean 358 mm (which is smaller than Märklin R1 = 360 mm).

Or do they write "R3" for this model?
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Rinus  
#38 Posted : 18 June 2010 02:01:36(UTC)
Rinus


Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
H0 wrote:
Jos wrote:
ROCO documentation advises smallest R is R2!!

If Roco writes "R2" they mean 358 mm (which is smaller than Märklin R1 = 360 mm).

Or do they write "R3" for this model?


Haven't found a recomendatoin in my manual, but I'll check it if you want.

However in general the longer 1:87 scaled coaches and trains (and the Aln 442 certainly is long) do not mix well with Marklin R2 and R1 radi. I'm not saying it goes wrong everytime, but you are taking a calculated risk when operating them in these narrow bends, without taking countermeasures. This does not apply only to Roco, but to all other brands who vallue exact scale above useability (is that an english word?Huh ) on narrow radi like R1 and R2.

In my opinion its not wrong or right or better or worse. Its just a choise. Thats why I find difficult to compare Marklin products with Roco / Brawa / ACME / etc.. products head to head: they have, in a way, a different purpose and therefor attract different groups of enthousiasts.

Luckily nowadays we have this choise, to chose between multiple brands who offer AC modells.

Offline H0  
#39 Posted : 18 June 2010 11:25:41(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Rinus wrote:
Haven't found a recomendatoin in my manual, but I'll check it if you want.

Not for me (I won't buy it and I don't use Märklin R1).

In the past I've seen several threads where they said this and that Roco loco requires R2 ...
... when it finally turned out that R2 stands for 358 mm.
That's why I asked if it was Roco R2 or Märklin R2.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#40 Posted : 18 June 2010 20:30:38(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,863
Location: CA, USA
Hi guys,
Helpful thread! I saw one advertised for $150USD somewhere, and I passed not knowing specifics. After reading this review I feel I can make it work so if I can find it again I'm buying it! (I'm familiar with Roco quality, I justs was wondering about operations and radi of curve)
SBB Era 2-5
Offline BR01097  
#41 Posted : 19 November 2010 09:37:39(UTC)
BR01097

United States   
Joined: 17/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 228
Location: Denver, Colo. USA
Oscar wrote:
Evil R wrote:
To be honnest, its not that difficult Oscar. Just take the train of the track, lay it upside down, take each side of the coupler between your fingers and pull em apart. They won't brake down, I promise. The coupler is no more or less delicate than most other electric couplers I've seen.

OK, thanks!

Evil R wrote:
I find it rather amusing that in this forum the idea still exits that plastic body shells are likely to fall apart when even toughed by a feather. Most Marklin coaches are made of plastic and do those fall apart all the time?

It's the fact that I have to bend the body outwards in order to get it off that worries me. It's not really sturdy plastic and the plastic handrails near the doors and the windows look very fragile to me. With Märklin, my experience is that you can dismantle a model quite fast and safely (although my new BR23 steamer is an exercise in care and patience).

Evil R wrote:
we all agree about the wonderfull appearance of this model, dont we?ThumpUp

I do!!



Oscar's experience with a locomotive other than offered by Märklin is similar to my own. For a very inexpensive price I bought on eBay an E40 modelled by Liliput that had been converted by the factory to A/C. Its previous owner had only partially completed the assembly and I was happy to finish the rest. The many filigree plastic parts and details would make one think the model were superior, and I had been having reasonable luck with some of Liliput's passenger cars bought in Austria last time I was there in 1978. However, with the first curve, the arc of the coupler dislodged most of the connections and brake hoses, which then had to be remounted. The cat kept showing me the other disadvantages: every swipe at the locomotive handily took off more details, even if it did not leave the rails. None of this necessarily left me cold.

Then shortly it stopped moving: motor would spin but not the wheels. Inside, there was a plastic knuckle assembly connecting the driving worm shaft to the motor. An E40 that can't handle the weight of a light freight (albeit Märklin) train, this is a serious problem. No hobby shop could help me or suggest a replacement. Hardware stores same story. Were it not for my resourceful ingenuity, it would have meant early retirement of it to a stationary display.

Bottom line: this is certainly NOT a heavy-duty, usable model. It looks more like a box compared to its counterpart in Märklin #3040 which I have since bought, and will be made to serve as a helper unit at the tail end of the former's train. I do after all, like the functional glowing red taillights.


____________________________________________________________________________

Collector of Märklin fine-quality trains since 1966.




Offline H0  
#42 Posted : 19 November 2010 10:02:50(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
BR01097 wrote:
For a very inexpensive price I bought on eBay an E40 modelled by Liliput that had been converted by the factory to A/C.

I'm sorry but I want to say that I don't find your post helpful.
This thread is about Roco models.

You write about a Liliput model without mentioning if it is Liliput Austria or Liliput by Bachmann (China), no ref. number given.

There are several Roco locos where you have to remove the front coupler, maybe even the front coupler pocket, if you want to run the loco with brake hoses installed.
It's similar if you want to run Märklin models with brake hoses installed. And normally it's easier to remove the coupler pocket from Roco models than from Märklin models (new 110, 218, V 300).

IMHO small parts falling off is a safety feature: better to have them fall off then break off.

The old Märklin 3039/3040 may be "cat safe", but the new Märklin models come with goodies bags and factory-applied small details.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline river6109  
#43 Posted : 19 November 2010 10:44:58(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,636
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Plastic versus metal.

One member wrote plastic models (Roco) don't seem to have the same pulling power as metal locos (Märklin)
this is not true at all. I have several Roco locos and the pulling power is greater than their counterpart.
for example, Swiss crocodile (Märklin no match for Roco crocodile, the older version SBB Ae 8/14 no match for Roco's 8/14, Im seeking a Roco ÖBB 1020 and when I'll get it will compare this with the Märklin BR 194.

John


https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Leitner  
#44 Posted : 18 April 2017 13:53:49(UTC)
Leitner

Taiwan, Province Of China   
Joined: 25/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 274
So....

I revive this topic because I just received the 69117.

It's already well known but I think it's worth reminding, the model itself is very very nice, the problem is that it can't simply run on my layout because it's too long and it crash on tunnel and catenary... The model itself is really nice even if it looks fragile, but well... It's not good for making it run.

If you have a big layout with R4-R5 of course should not be a problem.

BR
Ep. III (My layout is set in 1962).
I collect mainly DSB, DB and SBB but I'm quite... Open minded.
I'm quite a big collector of NOHAB lok :)
Offline danmarklinman  
#45 Posted : 18 April 2017 14:38:46(UTC)
danmarklinman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 18/10/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,377
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Marklin have made many plastic locos and railcar sets in the past. It's interesting to see that they are, in general, going back to using metal for the "high end" products.

There are advantages and disadvantages associated with both materials, but one not mentioned here is that plastics often warp after some time. I have some old coaches that are begimnning to look more like bananas!

Another unwanted property of plastic is that it is naturally translucent, and sometimes you have to work quite hard to stop light shining through.

I hope, of course, that none of these apply to this fine model, which I also agree is quite beautiful!

My only experience so far of a Roco locomotive is my Belgian class 59 diesel. I bought it because it was much cheaper than the marklin model of this loco, and I was curious about how it compared. It is well made, but suffers from light "leakage" through the plastic body. The printing of the colours is also not as crisp as on the Marklin model. In terms of performance, it is smooth and very quiet, but tends to be intolerant of dirty tracks. It stutters and stops at the smallest hint of dirt, which is frustrating!

Thanks for an interesting and informative topic, Oscar, and I hope you get many hours of enjoyment from your train!


Hi Ray. I have the Marklin series 59 SNCB loco. It's one of the best runners I have. With far greatest more accurate details than the Roco model. And it very heavy:-)
Marklin and Piko era 4 SNCB , Marklin wagons
Wiking model car Fan
Faller fan including car system
Instagram: marklin1978
Wiking fan
Offline H0  
#46 Posted : 18 April 2017 14:57:27(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Leitner Go to Quoted Post
If you have a big layout with R4-R5 of course should not be a problem.
In my experience Märklin R2 is enough. You just must have sufficient clearance beside the track.
This is not different with Märklin scale models - like the TGV, the Big Boy, the 303 mm double stock coaches, the 292 mm SNCF/SNCB coaches.
The 32-axle transformer transport needs a lot of clearance on the inside of curves ...

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline mike c  
#47 Posted : 18 April 2017 16:47:46(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,880
Location: Montreal, QC
It is sad that too many people look at plastic models and dismiss them out of hand. For what you lose in a plastic shelled model, you gain in terms of detail… Not every train model is going to be the same. Some are better and some are worse, but in general, Roco, LSM, ACME are at the top of the game.

I have a predilection for Maerklin (and Hag), but as I am first and foremost a collector and modeller of Swiss trains, if I can't get a model from Maerklin and there is another company that makes that model, then I will consider it.

Over the last 30 years, I have come to greatly appreciate the 303mm exact scale coaches and most of those are plastic. They look wonderful, either behind my metal (or plastic) Maerklin or Hag locomotives or also behind the Roco ones too.

The only time that you are going to lose is when you run a metal Maerklin lok into a Roco lok, as the Roco lok will suffer more damage.

My first Roco lok (Re 4/4IV) still looks as good and runs as well as when I first got it. I have made some changes to the model (Flusterschleifer - new slider). The newer Re 4/4s, Re 6/6s, etc are on par with anything on the market.

If you collect and play Maerklin, that is one thing. If you collect and play trains, you have to consider other brands and they will work fine alongside the Maerklin ones.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline jvuye  
#48 Posted : 18 April 2017 17:16:26(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
It is sad that too many people look at plastic models and dismiss them out of hand. For what you lose in a plastic shelled model, you gain in terms of detail… Not every train model is going to be the same. Some are better and some are worse, but in general, Roco, LSM, ACME are at the top of the game.

I have a predilection for Maerklin (and Hag), but as I am first and foremost a collector and modeller of Swiss trains, if I can't get a model from Maerklin and there is another company that makes that model, then I will consider it.

Over the last 30 years, I have come to greatly appreciate the 303mm exact scale coaches and most of those are plastic. They look wonderful, either behind my metal (or plastic) Maerklin or Hag locomotives or also behind the Roco ones too.

The only time that you are going to lose is when you run a metal Maerklin lok into a Roco lok, as the Roco lok will suffer more damage.

My first Roco lok (Re 4/4IV) still looks as good and runs as well as when I first got it. I have made some changes to the model (Flusterschleifer - new slider). The newer Re 4/4s, Re 6/6s, etc are on par with anything on the market.

If you collect and play Maerklin, that is one thing. If you collect and play trains, you have to consider other brands and they will work fine alongside the Maerklin ones.

Regards

Mike C


I could take any of Mike's words as my own!
I have a (**obsessive**) predilection for the history of the TEEs, and through the years must have probably accumulated over 95% of all the railcars, locos and coaches ever used in those services.
And of course, just like Mike, when Märklin issues one of them, it will soon join the collection!
But, some of them were only made by ROCO , and so they have been part of the collection, originally in 2 rail versions, which of course were converted promptly to 3 rail.
The Lemano ALn that started this thread is a very nice model, and it runs beautifully. I must have gotten a later version, since it has the TEE logo on the fronts, instead of the FS cookies
And there are also the SNCF X2770 RGP TEE , which ROCO cleverly conceived like the original as you can run it with two, three or fours cars, just like the Paris-Ruhr/ Parsifal and the Ile de France of the late 1950's early 1960's
So are the later FS TEE coaches (Lemano, Mediolanum, Ligure, etc) absolutely perfect in every regard, with the FS E 444 Tortoise to pull these . (The latter being an original ROCO 3 rail, no conversion!)
Then there are all the SNCF locos and coaches ...
Recent purchases of a CC 6500 and a 2D2 proved that plastic bodied locos, with a heavy metal chassis and the proper mechanical arrangement can play very competitively against products from Goeppingen.
Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline danmarklinman  
#49 Posted : 18 April 2017 17:34:45(UTC)
danmarklinman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 18/10/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,377
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
It is sad that too many people look at plastic models and dismiss them out of hand. For what you lose in a plastic shelled model, you gain in terms of detail… Not every train model is going to be the same. Some are better and some are worse, but in general, Roco, LSM, ACME are at the top of the game.

I have a predilection for Maerklin (and Hag), but as I am first and foremost a collector and modeller of Swiss trains, if I can't get a model from Maerklin and there is another company that makes that model, then I will consider it.

Over the last 30 years, I have come to greatly appreciate the 303mm exact scale coaches and most of those are plastic. They look wonderful, either behind my metal (or plastic) Maerklin or Hag locomotives or also behind the Roco ones too.

The only time that you are going to lose is when you run a metal Maerklin lok into a Roco lok, as the Roco lok will suffer more damage.

My first Roco lok (Re 4/4IV) still looks as good and runs as well as when I first got it. I have made some changes to the model (Flusterschleifer - new slider). The newer Re 4/4s, Re 6/6s, etc are on par with anything on the market.

If you collect and play Maerklin, that is one thing. If you collect and play trains, you have to consider other brands and they will work fine alongside the Maerklin ones.

Regards

Mike C


I could take any of Mike's words as my own!
I have a (**obsessive**) predilection for the history of the TEEs, and through the years must have probably accumulated over 95% of all the railcars, locos and coaches ever used in those services.
And of course, just like Mike, when Märklin issues one of them, it will soon join the collection!
But, some of them were only made by ROCO , and so they have been part of the collection, originally in 2 rail versions, which of course were converted promptly to 3 rail.
The Lemano ALn that started this thread is a very nice model, and it runs beautifully. I must have gotten a later version, since it has the TEE logo on the fronts, instead of the FS cookies
And there are also the SNCF X2770 RGP TEE , which ROCO cleverly conceived like the original as you can run it with two, three or fours cars, just like the Paris-Ruhr/ Parsifal and the Ile de France of the late 1950's early 1960's
So are the later FS TEE coaches (Lemano, Mediolanum, Ligure, etc) absolutely perfect in every regard, with the FS E 444 Tortoise to pull these . (The latter being an original ROCO 3 rail, no conversion!)
Then there are all the SNCF locos and coaches ...
Recent purchases of a CC 6500 and a 2D2 proved that plastic bodied locos, with a heavy metal chassis and the proper mechanical arrangement can play very competitively against products from Goeppingen.
Cheers


Hi what's the minimum radius of these two Roco sncf locos? And do you have any REE locos? Cheers Dan
Marklin and Piko era 4 SNCB , Marklin wagons
Wiking model car Fan
Faller fan including car system
Instagram: marklin1978
Wiking fan
Offline Leitner  
#50 Posted : 18 April 2017 17:39:47(UTC)
Leitner

Taiwan, Province Of China   
Joined: 25/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 274
What to say...

I don't really like Marklin passenger coaches and I prefer other brands, I own a lot of Heljan, LS Models, ACME and others and they run well and looks very nice, Marklin coaches are good for easy play but I'm quite fond into realistic composition so well... I like to have the right coaches in the right place and Marklin doesn't really do them...

When it comes to locomotives I have to say Marklin are much better, they are more robust and reliable, I own several locomotive of other brands and, aside from PIKO (which are quite robusts) the other for sure looks maybe more "realistic" than Marklin but they are also fragile...

Consider that accident are quite uncommon on my layout but unfortunantly sometimes they happens I prefer to have something more robust and reliablae tha having something really beautiful looking but that it get destroyed beo.
Ep. III (My layout is set in 1962).
I collect mainly DSB, DB and SBB but I'm quite... Open minded.
I'm quite a big collector of NOHAB lok :)
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