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jeehring		#51 Posted : 19 January 2010 13:23:12(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,		graafjp wrote: Jeehring, I am also puzzled what this could mean?? Perhaps there is something new (functionality) in the making? The changelog is about the GFP or Track Format Processor and that one is also included in the CSII..... I'm trying to guess: is the 6021 connecting box in fact a kind of CAN bus adapter ?
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SierraDelta		#52 Posted : 19 January 2010 23:02:51(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 26/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 126 Location: Brussels, Belgium		For those unable to download v.1.3.0(1) directly to their CS2 the update is now available for installation via a USB stick at the usual location: http://www.maerklin.de/d...ds/software_updates.html
		Cheers, Søren ___________ CS2 60213 version 1.6.4(3)/GFP 1.40 2011 planned purchases - | nothing |
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Fredrik		#53 Posted : 19 January 2010 23:35:41(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 13/07/2004(UTC) Posts: 642		jeehring wrote: I'm trying to guess: is the 6021 connecting box in fact a kind of CAN bus adapter ? Yepp! And for the GFP Bug-fix: I'd guess there was a problem on reading function-states out of a mfx-decoder from a booster-area and that issue have now been fixed. Do not know for sure as I currently haven't had the booster connected, and whenever it get's connected it will be updated anyway...
		Fredrik. *ECoS 2 + ECoSDetector + SwitchPilot + ECoSTerminal; *Z21 + Loconet + Digikeijs + MGP; **CS3+ + CdB (** coming soon...) WWW: MJ-fjärren
		WWW
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Hemmerich		#54 Posted : 20 January 2010 01:45:00(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,734 Location: ,		Posting updated (no longer relevant). Edited by user 08 February 2010 19:53:04(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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Gregzim		#55 Posted : 01 February 2010 08:38:04(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 116 Location: Melbourne, Australia		This is a very important perspective Stephan, and one really worthy of thought. As a business owner - I have found continually that companies frustrate one another. In the case of Marklin - its become a no win position now. They outsourced marklin systems to another company (ESU) so as to keep up fast and to safe huge development costs I expect - - but at a big risk. ESU may hold the technology and when they appeared fall out (doesn't really matter who or why ) Marklin ends up on the outside of controlling its own system (which in the end was only a slightly changed version of a borrowed system - developed by ESU.) I love Marklin locos, and I recognise the superiority of compaies like ESU who do all the thinking - and I love 3 rail as its so much more consistent - but all companies make big mistakes and Marklin clearly have made many of their own in recent times - lets just hope they keep it all together as most of us have invested a lot of money time and enjoyment in their world. It makes investin in ESU systems though animportant thought to carefully consider. When I eventually get my CS1 upgrade from them - I'll be interested to see how advanced it is. Regards Greg supermoee wrote: Hello Bigdaddy, did you ever thought that maybe ESU is not giving out any information about their software and Märklin do not want to do a cost and time intensive reverse engineering for each software version of the reloaded CS1 to ensure full compatibility? The lack of information of ESU was for sure one of the cause of the dispute between both companies. So why it should become better now? rgds Stephan
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David Dewar		#56 Posted : 01 February 2010 13:31:21(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,348 Location: Scotland		Not too sure about superior technology from ESU. The MS1 was a disaster then they could not provide a booster for the CS1. Marklin made a mistake with the CS1 by buying from a firm which produced their own version a less cost. The CS2 is now being manufactured for Marklin without another version from the same firm on the market. ESU need Marklin and the other model train manufacturers but Marklin etc do not need ESU. I would not be surprised to see some future Marklin models which will only have all their features available with a CS2 or MS2. Marklin provide all we need but ESU provides nothing we need (decoders are available elsewhere and are just as good) Apologies to all ESU users.
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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jeehring		#57 Posted : 01 February 2010 14:32:46(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,		Gregzim wrote: ...(...)... In the case of Marklin - its become a no win position now. They outsourced marklin systems to another company (ESU) so as to keep up fast and to safe huge development costs I expect - - but at a big risk. ESU may hold the technology and when they appeared fall out (doesn't really matter who or why ) Marklin ends up on the outside of controlling its own system (which in the end was only a slightly changed version of a borrowed system - developed by ESU.) ...(...)...Regards Greg Excuse me Greg, not really . ESU only had a concept. They needed Marklin to develop the technology,of course they have been fixing specifications all together. ESU was a small decoder manufacturer they couldn't do it by themselves , they couldn't afford the costs of developpment. Marklin support the costs of development. You say : "(doesn't really matter who or why )" . Unfortunately that is a major point , more or less : one has been tcheating , the other one has been too much trusting and very naïve, also reacting clumsily sometimes. You say "which in the end was only a slightly changed version of a borrowed system ": this can be said about ECOS 1 and ECOS 2 . IMO , between ECOS/CS1 and CS2 : not really. Excepted 2 knobs, one screen, MS1 outputs...things like that may be found on other centrales as well. On CS2 Software design is VERY different.Hardware is different, not same card, not same components. Overall concept also is different : CS2 design implements more "PC abilities", more power, many connectors like USB, card readers, etc...
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epierre		#58 Posted : 01 February 2010 14:36:00(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 07/12/2009(UTC) Posts: 35 Location: Paris,		Hi David, The consequence will be that the MFX will die by itself, since only Märklin will make it and support it, leaving no alternative, good or bad, whatever it is... I am asking myself if the mfx is interresting enough to use it, well it provides some interresting advantages if you don't use a PC, but if you use it, having mfx or not doesn't change anything... I would be more interrested in having RFID supported in the electronics more globally, LDT does provide it now as elements. That would really help to know where a lok is, rather than is there is a lok somewhere. Anyway, good electronics from Märklin would be welcome, but lately it seems there are too much problems. Don't you have some electric turnout problems ? they have not used in 74490 components that support voltage and tension, so you have to add a capacitor to avoir repairing them again and again... so many people have problem with the electric turnout decoder for the 7286 when they use it too much (let's say more than 5 mn at a time...). Also Märklin is stuck with the Motorola format, I guess Motorola still produces it only for Märklin and in USA, which makes it de facto very expensive... Is Märklin an electronic company, it clearly seems not... as for the software they published, they still have it but they are not a software company and this is not what we expect from them... good, reliable, and life like model train !
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jeehring		#59 Posted : 01 February 2010 17:37:34(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,		epierre wrote: Hi David, I would be more interrested in having RFID supported in the electronics more globally, LDT does provide it now as elements. That would really help to know where a lok is, rather than is there is a lok somewhere. I don't see any RFID technology in LDT accessories . Helmo had planned something about it, I don't know if it is available already . My Marklin decoders for accessories always work well, some of them are more than 10 years old...they are even able to support 2 accessories in one output...
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David Dewar		#60 Posted : 02 February 2010 00:53:24(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,348 Location: Scotland		Out of 26 turnout motors and decoders only one motor has failed and that after many years of use. MFX by itself only registers your loco and other than that is not of much interest. I dont know who is now making Marklin systems but the have made a good job with my CS2 and hopefully the MS2 will also be good and not perform like the ESU MS1 of which about half or more were faulty. Marklin start sets are an important part of their business and need Marklin controllers to keep them competitive.
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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James		#61 Posted : 03 February 2010 22:27:36(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 384 Location: Alberta		So I plugged my CS2 into the internet, updated the program, was told update successfully upgraded to version to 1.1.3(0), then I went to my set-up menu but I didn't find a CS1 on the bottom of the menu as per the photo. So what's up? Is this the wrong update, is this update only for the CS3? In a word... help.
		____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ James Bannerman Give me steam, and how you feel can make it real, real as anything you've seen. (Peter Gabriel)
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pa-pauls		#62 Posted : 03 February 2010 22:59:09(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/06/2002(UTC) Posts: 1,842 Location: Norway		James wrote: So I plugged my CS2 into the internet, updated the program, was told update successfully upgraded to version to 1.1.3(0) To version 1.1.3(0)
		Pål Paulsen Märklin Spur 1 Digital, epoche 3
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James		#63 Posted : 04 February 2010 00:11:37(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 384 Location: Alberta		Uh huh. I plugged in, hit the upgrade, and it did it's thing. It said that the update was successful. When I looked at the version on the information screen it shows 1.1.3(0). I'm thinking that it should be something else
		____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ James Bannerman Give me steam, and how you feel can make it real, real as anything you've seen. (Peter Gabriel)
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pa-pauls		#64 Posted : 04 February 2010 11:54:49(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/06/2002(UTC) Posts: 1,842 Location: Norway		James wrote: I'm thinking that it should be something else You have done correct James (at least after what you explain here) but the Software version should be 1.3.0 ! Do you remember what version you had before you did the upgrade ? Maybe you had an "old" software version... You can't do any damage to the CS 2 by trying to upgrade it once more... Same way as you did last time...
		Pål Paulsen Märklin Spur 1 Digital, epoche 3
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Fredrik		#65 Posted : 04 February 2010 11:57:42(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 13/07/2004(UTC) Posts: 642		Hi, you have to hit the "wrench" to the left of the bottom row on the "setup"-screen. Then CS1 will appear to the right. Note that you'll get even more options than CS1 once you press this "key".
		Fredrik. *ECoS 2 + ECoSDetector + SwitchPilot + ECoSTerminal; *Z21 + Loconet + Digikeijs + MGP; **CS3+ + CdB (** coming soon...) WWW: MJ-fjärren
		WWW
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SierraDelta		#66 Posted : 04 February 2010 13:12:55(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 26/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 126 Location: Brussels, Belgium		James, You could also try to update via a USB stick, the files have been available for a couple of weeks now.
		Cheers, Søren ___________ CS2 60213 version 1.6.4(3)/GFP 1.40 2011 planned purchases - | nothing |
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jeehring		#67 Posted : 04 February 2010 14:35:19(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,		James wrote: Uh huh. I plugged in, hit the upgrade, and it did it's thing. It said that the update was successful. When I looked at the version on the information screen it shows 1.1.3(0). I'm thinking that it should be something else Did you see the state of the LED at the back, also ?
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pa-pauls		#68 Posted : 04 February 2010 16:52:22(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/06/2002(UTC) Posts: 1,842 Location: Norway		MJ-Teknik wrote: Hi, You have to hit the "wrench" to the left of the bottom row on the "setup"-screen. Then CS1 will appear to the right. Note that you'll get even more options than CS1 once you press this "key". To be able to do this he first need to be sure he got the software version 1.3.0 and NOT 1.1.3...
		Pål Paulsen Märklin Spur 1 Digital, epoche 3
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David Dewar		#69 Posted : 04 February 2010 17:28:48(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,348 Location: Scotland		I agree with the above and use a USB stick. Load the two files from the M site and you should not have any bother. david
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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James		#70 Posted : 05 February 2010 03:12:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 384 Location: Alberta		Okay... I went to Maerklin's German website, put my USB device into my PC and downloaded the latest USB software listed there. [cs2update.md5 (0,06 kb) and cs2update.tgz (18,685,52 kb)] Okay, I then plugged my USB stick into the CS and "apparently" the downloaded update worked (so the CS informed me). My CS2 (60213) under set-up/Version now shows... Software Version 1.1.3(0) Hardware Version 3.1 If I go to "Information" I see Information ???????????????????#4292967295 Item Number ???????? Version 1.22 When I touch the wrench (located on the bottom right) my screen turns blue (like it should) and at the bottom of the screen I have these choices... CS - MS - IP - Information - Version - View - ? If I hook my CS (via an ethernet cable) to my internet Modem, and then go to set-up, and chose "Internal" and then "Update Program"... The CS2 asks me if I want to update, I say yes, and it does it's thing. It comes back and says update successful. I return to my wrench and nothing has changed. As I stated before... Is this updated only for the 60214 CS2 Is this the only way to connect a CS1 to a CS2
		____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ James Bannerman Give me steam, and how you feel can make it real, real as anything you've seen. (Peter Gabriel)
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7gauges		#71 Posted : 05 February 2010 04:55:04(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/12/2002(UTC) Posts: 328		James wrote: Okay... I went to Maerklin's German website, put my USB device into my PC and downloaded the latest USB software listed there. [cs2update.md5 (0,06 kb) and cs2update.tgz (18,685,52 kb)] Okay, I then plugged my USB stick into the CS and "apparently" the downloaded update worked (so the CS informed me). My CS2 (60213) under set-up/Version now shows... Software Version 1.1.3(0) Hardware Version 3.1 If I go to "Information" I see Information ???????????????????#4292967295 Item Number ???????? Version 1.22 When I touch the wrench (located on the bottom right) my screen turns blue (like it should) and at the bottom of the screen I have these choices... CS - MS - IP - Information - Version - View - ? If I hook my CS (via an ethernet cable) to my internet Modem, and then go to set-up, and chose "Internal" and then "Update Program"... The CS2 asks me if I want to update, I say yes, and it does it's thing. It comes back and says update successful. In fact everytime I turn it on it seeks the Maerklin server and tries to make sure it has the latest update. I return to my wrench and nothing has changed. As I stated before... Is this updated only for the 60214 CS2 Is this the only way to connect a CS1 to a CS2 Sorry to hear of your problems. I have my Central station hooked up to an Apple Airport Express which routes to an Apple Airport Extreme and out through the Shaw Internet cable modem. No issues Upgrading the software my 60214 says: SW Version 1.3.0(1) HW Version 3.4 Series 9324 I would point out that I run the CS2 in German language mode- I don't know if that makes a difference for updating or not - It wouldn't surprise me at all if this was the issue. The only thing the update doesn't do is allow me to run my MS1's plugged into it - the CS2 downloads the stored locos but the MS1's (I have four) completely freak out and don't work - I believe because the MS1's are first generation units that have never been updated through a CS1 - and apparently Marklin has no interest in backward compatibility for very recent (i.e. non 6021) digital products. I'd suggest trying to set your CS2 to german language, updating, and then turning it back to english.
		Collecting / Fixing and Running trains since 1966.
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David Dewar		#72 Posted : 05 February 2010 12:45:50(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,348 Location: Scotland		A bit confusing this. I can connect a first generation MS to my CS2 and it works fine. I have not tried to connect a CS1 but see ne reasson why it would not work. It is the computer part that i know nothing about but why not just connect your CS1 to the CS2 directly as per Ms instructions.
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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pa-pauls		#73 Posted : 05 February 2010 14:23:53(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/06/2002(UTC) Posts: 1,842 Location: Norway		James wrote: .....to my internet Modem..... Hmmmm, I'm not sure but are you not supposed to use a Router ?
		Pål Paulsen Märklin Spur 1 Digital, epoche 3
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James		#74 Posted : 05 February 2010 15:06:12(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 384 Location: Alberta		Dave wrote Quote: as per Ms instructions./quote] Where does one find these instructions
		____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ James Bannerman Give me steam, and how you feel can make it real, real as anything you've seen. (Peter Gabriel)
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7gauges		#75 Posted : 05 February 2010 15:06:32(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/12/2002(UTC) Posts: 328		pa-pauls wrote: James wrote: .....to my internet Modem..... Hmmmm, I'm not sure but are you not supposed to use a Router ? No, James is hooking it up via an ethernet cable to the modem - a router isn't required. I can do the same with my cable modem. Quote: can connect a first generation MS to my CS2 and it works fine. I have not tried to connect a CS1 but see ne reasson why it would not work. It is the computer part that i know nothing about but why not just connect your CS1 to the CS2 directly as per Ms instructions. Can you check and see which version of HW and SW you have in the first Gen MS. That would be very helpful. Thanks. Edited by moderator 06 February 2010 11:24:57(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
		Collecting / Fixing and Running trains since 1966.
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jeehring		#76 Posted : 05 February 2010 15:34:55(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,		After updating did you switch off the CS2 , "quitting" it properly , then switch-on after few minutes ? ( that's what we have to do with our PC sometimes, so why not with CS2 ?) You should try
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David Dewar		#77 Posted : 05 February 2010 16:32:18(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,348 Location: Scotland		Hi James. If you plug your Cs1 into the Cs2 (the set up instructions show you where to plug it at the back of the CS2) Thereafter I presume if you select the CS at the foot of the blue screen you can add or delete locos etc. This is what happens when I add my MS so I expect it will be the same for a CS. If that works then your problem will be with the computer hook up. Sorry I cant be more helpful but I dont have a CS1 to plug in to my CS2. David
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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James		#78 Posted : 05 February 2010 16:35:03(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 384 Location: Alberta		Just a question here, but was there any way of connecting a CS1 (60212) to a CS2 (60213) before Marklin's current update?
		____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ James Bannerman Give me steam, and how you feel can make it real, real as anything you've seen. (Peter Gabriel)
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Hemmerich		#79 Posted : 05 February 2010 17:00:39(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,734 Location: ,		- Edited by user 21 November 2010 02:21:46(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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Bigdaddynz		#80 Posted : 05 February 2010 21:51:48(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,671 Location: New Zealand		Well, you can physically connect both Central Stations to your ethernet network, but that is all. The CS2 will not 'talk' to the CS1 as the software code for that is in the 1.3.0 version of the CS2. And the CS1 needs to be at v2.0.4. The ESU v3.0 upgrade for the CS1 does not work as far as talking to the CS2 goes - the CS2 does not recognise that version.
		WWW BLOG
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James		#81 Posted : 06 February 2010 04:13:51(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 384 Location: Alberta		Hello All: Well I have to report some interesting (and confusing) things that have happened of late. After running an Ethernet cable directly to my CS2 and trying to update about 20 times from mother M, I am saddened to say, that nothing happened. I then tried the USB stick route again and, now, the CS2 unit reports that the update was successful (go figure). One other thing to note (which I have no idea about) the CS2 asked me if I wanted to update the TFP. I have no idea what TFP means but I clicked yes and now I'm sitting and waiting for it to do it's thing. I've been waiting for about 20 minutes now, and nothing seems to be happening. The unit says not to turn off the unit, but I think it's frozen. Would anyone know... what the TFP is ? what it is used for? and, do I need it updated? and, what happens if I shut the unit down? Help!!!!!!!
		____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ James Bannerman Give me steam, and how you feel can make it real, real as anything you've seen. (Peter Gabriel)
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7gauges		#82 Posted : 06 February 2010 04:47:37(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/12/2002(UTC) Posts: 328		James wrote: Hello All: Well I have to report some interesting (and confusing) things that have happened of late. After running an Ethernet cable directly to my CS2 and trying to update about 20 times from mother M, I am saddened to say, that nothing happened. I then tried the USB stick route again and, now, the CS2 unit reports that the update was successful (go figure). One other thing to note (which I have no idea about) the CS2 asked me if I wanted to update the TFP. I have no idea what TFP means but I clicked yes and now I'm sitting and waiting for it to do it's thing. I've been waiting for about 20 minutes now, and nothing seems to be happening. The unit says not to turn off the unit, but I think it's frozen. Would anyone know... what the TFP is ? what it is used for? and, do I need it updated? and, what happens if I shut the unit down? Help!!!!!!! James, I' ve noticed that Linux based stuff takes forever to update, not quite as bad as Windows. Honestly haven't the foggiest as to what TFP is ..... never seen it . Tthe documentation for this thing was minimal at best and constant hilarity ensued when I was comparing english and german instructions - a drunken monkey must have done the translation. Maybe let it run overnight, and if nothing happens by morning, wheel over to hobbytech in the morning and maybe have Johnny send it in. Did you buy it from him, or from "elsewhere"? So basically I'd pull the plug, restart and go back to delivery condition. Something is severely F%$*ed up. Edited by user 06 February 2010 15:09:37(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
		Collecting / Fixing and Running trains since 1966.
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7gauges		#83 Posted : 06 February 2010 05:14:31(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 10/12/2002(UTC) Posts: 328		Glad to see it worked - when in doubt shut it down. Edited by user 06 February 2010 15:08:30(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
		Collecting / Fixing and Running trains since 1966.
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James		#84 Posted : 06 February 2010 05:18:45(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 384 Location: Alberta		K... Well I shut the unit down, nothing appears to be wrong, but when it rebooted, I got a prompt asking if I wanted to upgrade from TFP .22 to TFP.24 (Yes or No) when I clicked no, it (the CS2) proceeded to go into operation. I have a CS1 area on my set-up menu now (wah hoo). It has an area in which I can add a CS1, but at this point, the red x is still showing, and so, I'm assuming that there is no communication between them yet, but I think I'm getting there. Now... all I have to do is get the two units to talk to one another. I'm having so much fun here Any way, thanks for any and all of the advice I have received here on the list. I will, eventually, figure this thing out
		____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ James Bannerman Give me steam, and how you feel can make it real, real as anything you've seen. (Peter Gabriel)
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SierraDelta		#85 Posted : 06 February 2010 11:05:18(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 26/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 126 Location: Brussels, Belgium		James, TFP = Track Format Processor, normally gets updated in a process seperate from the software update itself. Do you have any boosters connected to your CS2?
		Cheers, Søren ___________ CS2 60213 version 1.6.4(3)/GFP 1.40 2011 planned purchases - | nothing |
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Fredrik		#86 Posted : 06 February 2010 11:36:45(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 13/07/2004(UTC) Posts: 642		Hi James, you should always perform the TFP-update, the V. 24 is the current TFP-version when 1.3.0(0) is the SW-version of the CS2. Once/when you add 60173 Boosters, you will also be asked if you wish to update their TFP:s too (one Q for each connected Booster). In connecting the CS1 over LAN, you will need to enter the IP-address of the CS1. If not connected to a router you will need to assign both units their own unique IP-addresses manually. Also note that the 3 first "values" of the IP-address must be equal (separated by "."), and the last value not equal on both units: If one unit is given 192.168.1.2, then the other one could have 192.168.1.3. Once the connection is established you can "send" both loco, and accessory items over to the CS1.
		Fredrik. *ECoS 2 + ECoSDetector + SwitchPilot + ECoSTerminal; *Z21 + Loconet + Digikeijs + MGP; **CS3+ + CdB (** coming soon...) WWW: MJ-fjärren
		WWW
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Hemmerich		#87 Posted : 08 February 2010 20:02:07(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,734 Location: ,		- Edited by user 21 November 2010 02:22:30(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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Bigdaddynz		#88 Posted : 08 February 2010 21:56:04(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,671 Location: New Zealand		What amuses me in all this issue regarding the CS1 Reloaded is that the wishes / needs of the customer are being ignored while the 2 elephants (Marklin and ESU) squabble over who said / did what!
		WWW BLOG
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Webmaster		#89 Posted : 08 February 2010 22:47:30(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC) Posts: 11,162		Lutz is right in principle regarding the commitment level that should be expected from M, to be compatible with the items sold under the M name regarding hw/sw... ESU offers an upgrade that makes the former common project "Märklin Systems" to fall into their own line of supported products with ECoS functionality, which extends the available features, while keeping compatibility to the original CS1 box. However, David has a very valid point - the customers are the ones caught in between regarding interoperability of electronic boxes that really should be able to talk to eachother if it wasn't for that "elephantiasis" approach from both parties... Uhlenbrock have their Intellibox, which is a jack of all trades trying to be as compatible as possible with most systems, including Loconet support and most classic Märklin & DCC digital features as well as their own Lissy as a very workable extension... To me it seems a more practical approach that benefits their customers, even if it does not implement the latest fancy mfx/m4 stuff.
		Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service... He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
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David Dewar		#90 Posted : 09 February 2010 00:22:36(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,348 Location: Scotland		As long as Marklin support their own box then that is OK. If it has been changed in any way by ESU or anybody else then it is no longer the responsibilty of Marklin. Uhlenbrock know they have to match their product with Marklin and in time perhaps ESU will do the same although the would be better sticking to decoders and try to sell ECOS to those who want it and leave the CS to M. I appreciate Davids point of view though but I cant see Marklin wanting to talk to ESU.
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Bigdaddynz		#91 Posted : 09 February 2010 00:50:13(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,671 Location: New Zealand		It's Marklin's name that is still on the front of the CS1! You'd think grown men could sort their differences out! But then, maybe not. Just look at the current nonsense going on with the America's Cup between Oracle and Alingi to prove that! And you'd think that Marklin would realise that the inability to connect a CS1 Reloaded to a CS2 would be putting many CS1 Reloaded owners off from buying a CS2. You just have to read this thread to see that! Their loss!
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David Dewar		#92 Posted : 09 February 2010 12:09:13(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,348 Location: Scotland		Hi David. I am not sure about this but if the CS1 was left just as a Marklin then it can be connected to the CS2. It is only if ESUs software has been added that there is a problem. A bit like owning a Ford and having BMW parts fitted. The CS2 seems to be selling well for Marklin and buyers appear to be very happy (exception is our NEV who I think was just very unlucky) Now Marklin has another manufacturer there is hope that the MS2 will also be good and those who bought the first one will forget the problems.
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Bigdaddynz		#93 Posted : 09 February 2010 21:31:45(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,671 Location: New Zealand		Yes Dave that is correct. If the CS1 is left at v2.0.4 then it can connect to the CS2. The v3.0 update currently will not connect to the CS2. To use your analogy, the CS1 is still a Ford, because it was Ford who made the CS1 in the first place, and it is Ford who produce the v3.0 update. Just because Mazda sold the unit with their name on it doesn't change the fact it is a Ford!
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David Dewar		#94 Posted : 09 February 2010 22:04:56(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,348 Location: Scotland		Hi David Fully understand your point of view. I think where Marklin made the mistake was letting a manufacturer build their own version of the Marklin unit which they could sell cheaper and in competition with Marklin. I cant see how that would ever work as any time Marklin asked for something new for the CS then it would also be added to the ECOS etc. The disaster with the MS1 of which more than half were faulty must also have cost Marklin a lot in time dealing with repairs etc not to mention the bad press for the Marklin brand. The CS2 should not suffer the same problems but as you say a Ford is still a Ford so it is up to ESU to give you the connection to the CS2 or undo their upgrade. If however you have or are getting a CS2 do you really need to connect the CS1 to it. Agreed it might be useful but an MS will also do the job and although I have an MS connected to mine I rarely use it as the CS2 runs eveything OK. Where there is a problem I think is the cost of buying a new CS which was not envisaged at the time of the first purchase. You can of course sell the CS1 which helps with the change and although it is only my view I found the CS2 to be better then the CS1 and I am glad I made the change which maybe meant one loco less in the year of purchase. Dave
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Bigdaddynz		#95 Posted : 10 February 2010 00:57:53(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,671 Location: New Zealand		Dave, I'm not sure whether the restriction is on the CS2 side, or whether it is on the CS1 Reloaded side. As it is the CS2 that gives you the message saying it cannot connect, I suspect that it is the CS2 that is doing the version checking, and thereby allowing or denying the connection. If you recall, Luis was wanting to connect his CS1 Reloaded to his CS2, as the CS1R can be set up to control a 7286 turntable via Lokpilot decoders, something the CS2 cannot do. So, Luis wanted to be able to connect his CS1R to his CS2 for that purpose. That is one example, and I'm sure those with CS1R can think of others. Given that the CS1 of any type does not allow connection of another CS1 as a remote controller, the feature as introduced in the CS2 fills a specific need for those with large layouts to be able to have remote controllers. I'm sure that those with CS1R's would like to be able to do that, just as much as anyone who has a non updated CS1. As I said, it is unfortunate that the requirements of some customers has been lost in the noise of the elephant dance!
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sudibarba		#96 Posted : 10 February 2010 03:48:49(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 28/07/2006(UTC) Posts: 880 Location: Augusta, GA USA		Waited a bit to see what was up with the update. Brought my unit up to the router and hooked it up. ET called home asked if I wanted to update TPF, I said yes. 10 seconds later I was on to the basement, hooked it up, everything fine. Saw the CS1 stuff but don't care as I don't have one. Got my unit early, #1807, never have had a problem updating it - no reason for me to use a USB stick as far as I can tell. Only problem I ever had was why they would release a unit with known flaws while they were facing bankrupcy. Any way, very happy with CS2, expensive but that's model railroading. Eric Now, on to decide about the tin plate cars.
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James		#97 Posted : 20 March 2010 03:38:36(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 384 Location: Alberta		Hello All: I have finally *sigh* enabled my CS1(60212) and CS2(60213) to communicate with each other. It is sweet indeed. I read somewhere (perhaps in this thread) that the CS1, while in this configuration, cannot be hooked up to the tracks, and that only the CS2(60213) can be hooked to the tracks. Okay, I understand that, no problemo. Now I have one question, though, can I hook up a programming track to the CS1(60212) instead of having it (the programming track) hooked up to the CS2? Will any new loks register themselves on the CS1, and can I transfer these loks back to my CS2? I know that this may be a moot point, but I want to hook up my booster to my system, I can't find my black connector to do so, and my dealer hasn't any connectors in stock . I can use my programming track connector, but that leaves with no programming track in lieu of.... I'm hoping that I could hook-up the programming track to the CS1, register any new loks there, and then bring them into the CS2 menu or... am I just dreaming
		____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ James Bannerman Give me steam, and how you feel can make it real, real as anything you've seen. (Peter Gabriel)
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clapcott		#98 Posted : 21 March 2010 01:11:00(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,436 Location: Wellington, New_Zealand		Disclaimer :: the following may change with firmware updates James wrote: Hello All: I read somewhere (perhaps in this thread) that the CS1, while in this configuration, cannot be hooked up to the tracks, and that only the CS2(60213) can be hooked to the tracks. There are ways around everything but they get harder and more long winded the further you deviate from the architected path. The concept here is that The Master CS2 (At this stage because it can do most(all?) thing). and doing it backward "is discouraged" e.g. - The CS1 cannot do DCC - An mFX Loco defined on the CS2 will propagate as a M28 object to the CS1 purely as a reference (all be it with up to 16 functions available). It is not possible to propagate a CS1 mFX defined loco to the CS2 EXCEPT at initial discovery time. Repeating this process is tedious and has undesirable ramifications Quote: Now I have one question, though, can I hook up a programming track to the CS1(60212) instead of having it (the programming track) hooked up to the CS2? Will any new loks register themselves on the CS1, and can I transfer these loks back to my CS2? Yes you can hook up to the programing track of the CS1 - assumes you do not want DCC - can be desirable as the CS1 has better mapping capabilities than the CS2 Yes new mFX locos will register them selves on the programming track (or main line) - It takes a lot longer No (generally) to being able to transfer new loco on the CS1 to the CS2 - Exception being at the time the CS1 is first configured in the CS2 when you get the option to upload the existing definitions) Quote: I know that this may be a moot point, but I want to hook up my booster to my system, I can't find my black connector to do so, and my dealer hasn't any connectors in stock . Ummmm ? - Which Booster type ? - 6015/6017 or 60173 - Which black connector - The 2 pin connector for the back of the CS1/CS2/60173 might also be green Quote: I'm hoping that I could hook-up the programming track to the CS1, register any new loks there, and then bring them into the CS2 menu See above, as a one off yes but not as a regular process.
		Peter
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James		#99 Posted : 22 March 2010 09:10:09(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 384 Location: Alberta		Peter: Thanks for the information, I really appreciate your taking the time to break things down. The booster is a 60173, the connector is black, and no, I do not want to do DCC. From what I can understand, it is possible to do things outside of the architected pathway, but for what it's worth it's probably simpler to keep looking for my connector, or order one from my dealer. In the event that I acquire a new lok I'll just have to do a bunch of cable swapping, or use the main line All in all, this isn't a big deal. I'd rather be inconvenienced this way than mess up or cause harm to my loks in any way. Out of the 30 locomotives that I have purchased from Marklin in the last 5 years, 1(my BR 212) is awaiting a new decoder, 3(my BR 03, BR 96 and BR 41)are exhibiting strange jerking motions, and 1(my BR V200) has been sent back to Germany in need of some serious repairs after a circuit board fried. I don't need anymore maintenance problems right now. All I want is for the trains to run the way they were meant to. Just out curiosity because I think I know what you mean, but you mentioned "better mapping capabilities". Are you referring to CV mapping? With my CS1 I was able to discover a couple of "hidden" CV's (such as a bell) that didn't register through the MFX set-up. These sounds and settings did transfer to the CS2, but as you know, "tinkering" with the CV's is more restricted with the advent of the CS2. I'm thinking that, although I won't be able to transfer the lok from the CS1 to the CS2 through the data cable, I might still hook up a programming track on the CS1 to get that "better mapping" you're talking about. Once again, thanks for the info and your time.
		____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ James Bannerman Give me steam, and how you feel can make it real, real as anything you've seen. (Peter Gabriel)
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clapcott		#100 Posted : 22 March 2010 11:26:54(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,436 Location: Wellington, New_Zealand		https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWbcx8I8KTQ Edited by user 05 April 2010 14:28:58(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
		Peter
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