Motivated by the detailed ACME carriages, I'm looking forward to realise the folowing train:

An era IV day train (Eurocity or D-train for example) runing from Milan, Bologna or Venice to Austria or Switzerland or the other way round.

[b]The 1st question is: where there any that could serve as an example?

Which leads to the following question: which 1/87 models to use to complete it?[/b]

Would be nice if it was pulled by an Italian locomotive. The carriages must be detailed and exact 1/87 scale.

One obvious choice would be a Roco E656 (great loco [:p]) with the TEE carriage set.

But I'm looking forward to more original ideas

Hello Evil,

My expertise is limited to the trains that would have run over the Gotthard. I guess that we could start with trains like the TEE "Roland", which was pulled from Hamburg to Basel by DB Loks (112/103), then by Re 4/4II TEE over the Gotthard to Chiasso, where a FS Lok would take over. This train was composed of DB TEE coaches with a bar and restaurant coach.

There were also a whole series of "D-Zug" trains between German and Italian destinations, like the "Barbarossa" from Stuttgart to Milano via Zuerich or the "Riviera Express" from Hannover via Basel to Milano on the "Loetschberg-Simplon" route.

Later on, the TEE Roland was replaced by an IC. The TEE colour DB Coaches were replaced by a combination of TEE/IC and blue/beige 2nd Class coaches, then by the IC liveries of the 80s, 90s and finally the "ICE" livery. Those trains were the Verdi from Dortmund and the Tiziano from Hamburg. Today, there are no more direct connections between Italy and Germany other than the nightly Citynightline/DB Nachtzug train, which may be on it's last legs.

Passengers must travel to Zuerich or Basel via IC or Cisalpino and change there to trains connection to Germany and points West and North.

My favorite international train on the Gotthard has always been the "Holland-Italien Express", made up of a combination of Dutch, German, French, Italian, Swiss and CIWL day and night rolling stock. The train was a combined consist made up of elements from trains travelling from Amsterdam, Paris, Hamburg and other destinations that were combined in Basel for the run south to Italy. This was the ultimate combination of international coaches that was always a delight to look at and would be a gem to have in any collection.

Here are a couple of consist ideas that you may choose to model.

FS Lok (E444) with LS Models/ACME TUI charter coaches
SBB Re 6/6 with DB Intercity Coaches (1985) or FS and DB Eurofima coaches
http://www.locosuisse.ch.../re66/605-689/11647b.htm
SBB Re 4/4II with DB TEE Coaches (1972-1979)
FS Lok (E645/646) with ACME FS UIC Coaches, LSM DB UIC-X Coaches and LSM SBB UIC Coaches (Coming)

Classic
SBB Ae 6/6 with Dutch, German, French and Swiss coaches
http://www.locosuisse.ch.../re66/605-689/11636b.htm

A good resource for such consists would be the 1984 edition of Die Gotthardbahn by Marti & Trueb (Orell Fuessli)

Roco also had the FS Gran Comfort coaches in TEE colours that were used on the Milano-Munich and Milano-Geneva routes.

ACME had a set of coaches in cooperation with Heljan for a 1960s "Scandinavian Express".

Regards

Mike C

Scandinavien Express was composed by German and Italian X-type crriages.

Italian X-type coaches have been produced in many different series (such as German oner) from 1964 to 1982.
Recently ACME and Hornby-Rivarossi released nice models of these carriages. Both ACME and Rivarossi make also older carriages, that were still used in international trains in 80s:

http://www.acmetreni.it/...mp;Itemid=74&lang=it

http://rivarossi.hornbyi...earchguid=20091012211836

Obviously we wait for a picture of your international consist [:p]

Pietro

Hello,

I just came across the following book listed at one dealer as a new arrival. With all this talk about trains to Italy, I thought that it might be of interest to some.

http://www.memoba.at/bilder/etr_et85068.htm
Book is in Italian with diagrams/photos of consists

Regards

Mike C

Thank you Mike. I had never seen this book before!

First the Brenner line is surely one of my favorites and would you consider running era V or VI, you could really get a multitude of engine designs on your layout. Furthermore even if multi-system engines are becoming more frequent you still se many waiting at Brenner/Brennero to take on a northbound train.

Moving back to your thought of using an ÖBB 1042 or 1044 that is an idea I also have for my layout. I would say you could also consider DB engines and for era IV, I would assume BR 110 or 111 would be suitable. I know that DB engines took passenger trains all the way from/to München Hbf to/from Brenner/Brennero, but I am not sure exactly which types were used. I know that BR 103 were rare guests in Austria and if so mostly only on Westbahn to Vienna (Wien Westbf), that's why I suggest DB 110 or 111.

<u>But</u> I have also seen many pictures of trains from Italy to Swiss (Milano-Chiasso or Milano-Domodossola) pulled by an E646, because these lines are less challenging for the locos in italian section. Gotthard line has its greatest inclines in Swiss.

So I would see better an E645 with a train from Italy to Austria, and an E646 for an Italy-Swiss train.

Some pics:

Domodossola with E645 and E444 (so both goods locos and higher speed locos, with international trains)

E645 in Fortezza, going to Brenner with an international train in 1975

Pietro

Does someone know where to find a trackplan of the Brenner line or Brennero Statione?

None.

E646s, E656s, ALn668s can be fitted with a pickup shoe, but none of them is available in AC version.

Avoid the E632/E633/E652 because the central bogie is not hinged, it can only traslate laterally. So, even if there is a hole for the pickup shoe, it was told to me it doesn't work well.



Detail: quite the same level.
Quality: sometimes lower traction effort, but it depends on the models.
Decoder: if you buy a DC model and convert it to AC, you have to plug in your own decoder (all models have the 8-pin plug)

Pietro