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Origins of Bavarian Kolonialwagen [P]
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Offline Sander van Wijk  
#1 Posted : 12 April 2009 16:28:54(UTC)
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Sander van Wijk

Netherlands   
Joined: 20/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,248
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands; Göteborg, Sverige,
Hi all,

As most of us probably know, I am trying to specialize my knowledge and collection on era I. Over the years, Märklin and Trix have released several splendid Bavarian cars, so-called Kolonialwagen, [P]. A picture of one of those cars is attached below. (My thanks to Frits Osterthun for his picture, see: www.osterthun.com for more)

UserPostedImage
(Copyright by Frits Osterthun)

Now I'm wondering, what was actually transported with those cars? I presume that the name Kolonialwagen refers to "Kolonialwaren" like sugar, coffee or bananas. Other indications of its contents could be found in the existence of models labeled Persil, Maggi or Franz Kathreiners Nachfolger. Still, I am not sure about it, neither does it explain the rather distinct structure of those carriages.

So, I have several questions:
1. Why were these carriages designed this way?
2. How many of them are actually build?
3. What were they used for?

Any more information would be highly appreciated, thanks in advance!
Sander
---
Era I(b): K.Bay.Sts.B. and K.W.St.E.
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Offline spitzenklasse  
#2 Posted : 12 April 2009 16:44:25(UTC)
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spitzenklasse


Joined: 06/04/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,573
Location: ,
Era I cars are very elegant. I don't model them, and thus am uneducated in their use. They are some of Marklins most beautiful designs. I can tell by the coupler on the model shown, that it is Fleischmann.
I would doubt that banana's were available in Europe in era I. Bananas require exposure to ethelyne gas in a wharehouse setting to induce ripening. I don't know when it became artificially manufactured. All produce emits ethelyne by decomposition. Did they have dry ice?
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Offline WelshMatt  
#3 Posted : 12 April 2009 18:37:06(UTC)
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WelshMatt


Joined: 06/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,345
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Bananas were definitely available in the UK during Epoch 2. At that time they were imported in refrigerated ships and then loaded into special railway vans for delivery. The vans were equipped with steam heating equipment (similar to that used on passenger stock of the era) in order to ripen the bananas en route to sale. Using ethelyne gas sounds like a modern innovation, presumably giving greater control over the ripening process.

The loss of bananas during WW2 (as cargo space aboard ships was required for more important items) was definitely noted, with many children born during the war not having the faintest idea how to eat them when supplies resumed post war!

I too would be interested to hear about the use of these wagons, as although my Epoch 1 stock is all Wurttemberg I've been sorely tempted to add one to the fleet. One theory might be that "Kolonialwagen" referred to the design rather than the cargo?

I would not be surprised if the Persil, etc examples are Marklin fantasy rather than liveries applied to real kolonialwagen.
Matt from Wales.

When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality
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Offline atilla  
#4 Posted : 12 April 2009 22:20:53(UTC)
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atilla


Joined: 13/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 381
Location: Richmond, Virginia
There is a good wikipedia article. Here is an excerpt:

Plantation cultivation

In the 15th and 16th century, Portuguese colonists started banana plantations in the Atlantic Islands, Brazil, and western Africa.[27] As late as the Victorian Era, bananas were not widely known in Europe, although they were available via merchant trade.[28] Jules Verne references bananas with detailed descriptions so as not to confuse readers in his book Around the World in Eighty Days (1872).

In the early 20th century, bananas began forming the basis of large commercial empires, exemplarized by the United Fruit Company, which created immense banana plantations especially in Central and South America. These were usually extremely commercially exploitative, and the term "Banana republic" was coined for states like Honduras and Guatemala, representing the fact that "servile dictatorships" were created and abetted by these companies and their political backers, for example in the USA.[29]
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Offline Sander van Wijk  
#5 Posted : 13 April 2009 00:22:46(UTC)
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Sander van Wijk

Netherlands   
Joined: 20/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,248
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands; Göteborg, Sverige,
Hi all,

Thanks for your information, very interesting!

@ Spitzenklasse: don't get fooled by the Fleischmann coupler head, it is certainly a Trix car. wink

All of my questions have remained unanswered nonetheless, so I keep hoping for more. Thanks in advance!
Sander
---
Era I(b): K.Bay.Sts.B. and K.W.St.E.
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Offline atilla  
#6 Posted : 13 April 2009 01:25:16(UTC)
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atilla


Joined: 13/11/2008(UTC)
Posts: 381
Location: Richmond, Virginia
The German wikipedia seemed a bit more helpful. Search on Kolonialwagen on google. I hit the translate link and it did a very good job. Apparently the term applies to non-european goods. I wouldn't be surprised if the purpose of all those compartments is to keep things separated as they represented shipments of relatively small amounts of goods for one customer. I don't know how you'd go about confirming that; but, it makes sense to me.

Ralph
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Offline mmrcnzjohn  
#7 Posted : 13 April 2009 03:30:33(UTC)
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mmrcnzjohn

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 558
Location: ,
Hi Sander,

As far as I know it is believed that this is a fantasy wagon and never existed in real life. At least there are no known pictures of the real thing! Supposidly it was built for persil to carry raw materials but again there is no proof of this.

That being said it is a neat wagon (I have a DRG varient in my work train on my layout) and while not considered to be real I still like it.

Hope this helps

John
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Offline Sander van Wijk  
#8 Posted : 13 April 2009 13:52:25(UTC)
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Sander van Wijk

Netherlands   
Joined: 20/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,248
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands; Göteborg, Sverige,
Hi all,

This topic is certainly starting to get interesting...
@ Ralph; indeed, wikipedia covers the term Kolonialwaren (colonial goods) pretty extensively, and it could provide a hint to the use of these Colonialwagen, if it actually existed.
@ John: interesting, I personally like these cars a lot, so I still hope that it is modeled after an existing prototype...
@ All: thanks for your input!

Sander
---
Era I(b): K.Bay.Sts.B. and K.W.St.E.
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Offline pab  
#9 Posted : 13 April 2009 15:45:25(UTC)
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pab

Netherlands   
Joined: 03/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 2,764
Hi Sander

I found (google) some information about this type of cars in another forum:
See: http://germanrail.8.forumer.com...2ecf86f7a740dfb7972afa4d

Hope this helps
With kind regards
Piet Brijs
Website: http://home.kabelfoon.nl/~pabrijs
Topic in Marklin-users.net: https://www.marklin-user...pics/18-Me-and-my-layout
Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/pietbrs?feature=guide
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Offline Goofy  
#10 Posted : 13 April 2009 15:57:38(UTC)
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Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,282
I have seen this picture in prototyp somewhere,but can´t remember where...[:I]
This godscar has been in useful as foodtransport,by divided up kind of food placement.
Meat,vegetables,fruit,potatoes...etc

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline Sander van Wijk  
#11 Posted : 13 April 2009 16:02:51(UTC)
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Sander van Wijk

Netherlands   
Joined: 20/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,248
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands; Göteborg, Sverige,
Fantastic, this looks like the information I'm looking for, thanks!

Sander
---
Era I(b): K.Bay.Sts.B. and K.W.St.E.
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Offline jeehring  
#12 Posted : 13 April 2009 16:42:25(UTC)
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jeehring


Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
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Location: ,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by WelshMatt
<br />Bananas were definitely available in the UK during Epoch 2. At that time they were imported in refrigerated ships


Oh yes , I can confirm it.
There were special ships for banana transportation , . As I was a child , I remember we often passed them on southern lines . They were still sailing during the sixties .We used to call those special ships " bananiers" or "cargo bananier" in French . I think the English name is " banana boat" . Their hold were specially designed and equipped for banana transportation .They were medium sized boats (not very big), very slow on sea . Those cargo had the reputation to be the slowest boats , I know there were an explanation for that. ( economical ?)
Actually I don't remember the exact explanation ...
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Offline Goofy  
#13 Posted : 13 April 2009 17:56:51(UTC)
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Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,282
Sander...

I have now tried to find a picture,but couldn´t find it.
I have an DVD-rom with 29 Länderbahn-report and cannot find it.
Sorry... [:I]
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline Osterthun  
#14 Posted : 13 April 2009 19:14:45(UTC)
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Osterthun

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 111
Location: Netherlands
Hi Sander, since I’m convinced that you're able to read German as good as you write English, I just made a fast copy/paste from a German site about the Kolonialwagen:

Der Kolonialwagen war vor Hunderten von Jahren in Lateinamerika und im fernen Asien nicht wegzudenken. Man nutze ihn vornehmlich zum Transportieren von Waren wie Kaffee, Reis und andere Lebensmitteln.

The Kolonialwagen in scale H0, as Sander states correctly, was only develloped by Trix.
Not Fleischmann, though the Profi was still on when I shot it...
Nor Märklin, who just used the Trix moulds after 'marriage'

Awkward thing is that the Kolonialwagen measures the same outline as the Bavarian freight car G (Gm) with 4,5 m wheelbase (Radstand), like T23575 (also still with Profi):

http://osterthun.com/0La...n/Gueterwagen/T23575.htm

A roof on top has to do with weather influence (rice and coffee seem pretty influential to rain, I guess…). So why the car ends are unroofed is a riddle to me as well.
I even can’t imagine that the car was divided into compartments just to sort out different kinds of cargo.

A list with adjacent pictures of at least eight scale H0 Kolonialwagen which I could recover, can be found at:

http://osterthun.com/0Laenderba...20Gueterwagen.bayern.htm

Frits
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Offline Goofy  
#15 Posted : 13 April 2009 20:09:39(UTC)
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Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,282
Hi Frits!

Yes,i´m now remembering this godscar.
It did transported mostley coffee in latinamerica.
My faults about foodtransport...! [B)]
Thanks...



H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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