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Offline efel  
#1 Posted : 08 February 2009 15:13:48(UTC)
efel

France   
Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 800
Hi,

My layout is controlled from my PC with 6051 and 6021, with a home made software.

It works very well, but I would improve 2 things:
- get more than 14 speed steps, to improve the smoothness.
- get more than 4+1 functions, for my (future) locos with sounds.

My locos are now with M 6090+ , or LP2, or UHL decoders.

I'm considering to buy Intellibox, but I'd like to know:

1- Is it possible to get more than 14 speed steps with 6090 decoders and Intellibox?
2- Is it possible to get more than 14 speed steps and more than 4+1 functions with LP2 and Intellibox?
-2.1 In that case, is it necessary to use LP2 in DCC mode
-2.2 can IB, "at the same time", control Mota locos and DCC locos?
-2.3 Can IB control all the sounds of the new M locos?
3- I guess Intellibox (not the new one) is controlled by the PC via the serial port. Where can I find the protocol and control words for the IB?
4- Are the new (2009) IB necessary for doing the above things?

Thanks for your answers.

Fred
Offline DaleSchultz  
#2 Posted : 08 February 2009 16:48:21(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
1 - not 100% sure but I don't think so
2 - yes ! 126 effective steps plus stop and emergency halt
2.1 yes
2.2 yes !
2.3 IB can control functions up to F8 and some newer decoders can have higher functions controlled at the next address
3. http://www.uhlenbrock.de...91C145D-002.apd/P50X.zip
(but note they are moving away from P50X and now concentrating on Loconet)
4. No this is all capable by old IB
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline H0  
#3 Posted : 08 February 2009 19:38:02(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,446
Location: DE-NW
1 - One of the new features of the announced 2.0 software: 27 speed steps with MM protocol
4 - No (but it has the new software right from the start)

Software 2.0 will be free of charge for IB IR users (but not for IB 65000 users).
I think they announced it back in 2005. In November 2008 they told me it would be "out by end of 2008, hm, with high probability out by end of 2008".
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Lars Westerlind  
#4 Posted : 09 February 2009 00:23:35(UTC)
Lars Westerlind


Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
Just adding. The old IB has 3 available protocols for computer communication:
1. Serial just like 6050/6051, but with higher speed available. Called P50.
2. Extenstion that protocol; working more or less the same, but available absolute direction, all speed steps etc, plus lots of readings of state etc. Called P50x
3. The LocoNet protocol more or less, but the IB manages timing issues etc. That is, the PC acts as a LocoNet device, can listen to any message and send different kinds as well.

The latter seems the one to be supported in new IBs, and the PC interface for LocoNet, those that have USB.

Modern decoders have much more internal speed steps than 14, so I see little need for more. But if you do, use DCC protocol. It's absolutely no problem to mix the protocols.

If you go for the IB, don't forget to investigaste other LocoNet things; there are several handy things available.

/Lars
Offline efel  
#5 Posted : 10 February 2009 18:28:31(UTC)
efel

France   
Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 800
Thanks for your answers.
May I ask some precisions?

Tom,
The 2.0 software will allow 27 steps in MM protocol. But I guess 6090x will continue to "understand" only 14 speed steps?

Dale,
IB can control up to F8 functions, including for the M* MFX decoders?

Lars,
Your post was not unuseful for me . Thanks

Fred
Offline DaleSchultz  
#6 Posted : 10 February 2009 18:40:09(UTC)
DaleSchultz

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,997
I don't have any mfx decoders myself but i am sure I have seen them used with the IB, for example the sounds etc of the catenary maintenance car
Dale
Intellibox + own software, K-Track
My current layout: https://cabin-layout.mixmox.com
Arrival and Departure signs: https://remotesign.mixmox.com
Offline rschaffr  
#7 Posted : 10 February 2009 18:43:09(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,181
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Yes, they work the same as the non-mfx decoders. I have several that I run with my IB.
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline Davy  
#8 Posted : 10 February 2009 18:44:14(UTC)
Davy


Joined: 29/08/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,915
Location: Netherlands
Marklin 6090X understand MM27.

Mfx decoders decoders understand also mm27.

But is update 2.0 after almost four year arrived?

M-track with a CS2.
Offline Lars Westerlind  
#9 Posted : 10 February 2009 21:50:52(UTC)
Lars Westerlind


Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
Controllig up to -f8 work with using a secondary address, and Motorola Protocol. F5-f8 are reached by sending f1-f4 at the adress registred as secondary in the mfx-decoder.

The old IB software needed setting each adress to each throttle of the two available. The new 2.0 will allow some kind of shift+f1-f4 on one control (or f5-f8 on attached throttles tha have those buttons) to send f1-f4 to the adress following the throttles adress. This means it works conveniently only if the decoders secondary adress is set to the one following the primary.

/Lars
Offline DasBert33  
#10 Posted : 10 February 2009 22:19:28(UTC)
DasBert33

Belgium   
Joined: 21/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,274
Hi Fred,

Can I ask why you are specifically considering an Intellibox? There are plenty of more up-to-date, better alternatives available when you don't have/need loconet.

I have made the same switch as you want to do, going from a 6021 + 6051 to an intellibox. The intellibox was borrowed from a collegue from work for half a year.

It was a good upgrade from the 6051 when used with computer control. It is not the speedsteps (they remained the same for my motorola only decoders) but the absolute direction control that made all the difference. No longer trains that started moving in the wrong direction when under PC control.

But for manual control the IB is not better than a 6021. Especially manual control of switches and signals is not easy, when you have a certain number of them, and no keyboards. You have to memorize the addresses of everything.

For me ecos with its GUI and icons was a major upgrade compared to an intellibox, and hardly more expensive. Loco lists, function icons, graphical programming, ... People with CS, CS2 or Commander will probably agree and say the same thing. I have used my 6021+6051 connected to the ecos sniffer for a while untill the ecos specific computer control protocol was released.

Bert
Offline H0  
#11 Posted : 10 February 2009 23:18:35(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,446
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by efel
<br />Tom,
The 2.0 software will allow 27 steps in MM protocol. But I guess 6090x will continue to "understand" only 14 speed steps?

Dale,
IB can control up to F8 functions, including for the M* MFX decoders?

6090x always has 27 speed steps, even with the current IB (which only displays 1 through 14) - it's up to the user to use 27 speed steps intentionally. If you turn from 10 down to 9 loco will be running at intermediate speed step "9.5"; if turning from 8 to 9 you get "9.0". With a high acceleration and braking delay you can seamlessly switch to a different speed step for just a moment.
With 2.0 the IB will be aware of these intermediate speed steps and will show them directly (thass wot they told me (but they also told me it'll be out 2008)).

With update 2.0 you can control 9 functions of a mfx loco with just one throttle: lok?+f1 will switch f5 and so on.
Currently you need both throttles to switch 9 functions of mfx locos.

With update 2.0 you will be able to switch 9999 functions of DCC locos.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline efel  
#12 Posted : 11 February 2009 15:17:37(UTC)
efel

France   
Joined: 23/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 800
Hi,
Thanks all for your detailed answers. It's now clear for me.

Tom,
your remark concerning intermediate step is quite interesting for me. I'm going to modify my program to send to the 6051 : Speed N+1, immediately followed by Speed N to get Speed N+0.5, and check if smoothness increases.

Bert,
I thought buying Intellibox for, having read this forum for years, it seems that members using intellibox are quite satisfied.
On the other hand, many problems were related concerning CS1. Of course, that does not mean that ECO is not reliable, but...
Furthermore, I'm using PC control and don't need a large screen or programming possibilities for my controler. Just the possibility to use its knobs for manual control from time to time....

Thanks again

Fred
Offline H0  
#13 Posted : 11 February 2009 21:28:36(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,446
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Fred!
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by efel
<br />Tom,
your remark concerning intermediate step is quite interesting for me. I'm going to modify my program to send to the 6051 : Speed N+1, immediately followed by Speed N to get Speed N+0.5, and check if smoothness increases.

That'll work - with 6090x, new Delta decoders and some Tams decoders.
Not with 6090.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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