Flickering lights on HAG E-Lok 225 RE 4/4 I Share  Email this topic  LinkBack Topic URL  Retweet this Topic  Share Topic on Google+  Like this Topic  Share on Facebook  Digg this Topic  Reddit this Topic  Share on Tumblr Options  Watch this topic  Print this topic View » Normal Threaded

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biswasg		#1 Posted : 06 January 2009 23:45:35(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 31/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 234 Location: Geneva, Switzerland		I recently bought one HAG E-Lok 225 RE 4/4 I with decoder on eBay. The product was described as new. The item arrived today and externally appears new. But when I put it on my C-track with the mobile station, the lights flicker. My Marklin mfx engines have steady lights. Can someone help to sort it out.
		Gautam
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Caplin		#2 Posted : 07 January 2009 00:05:26(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,497 Location: Denmark		Could you take some close-up shots from different angles with the body removed? (I assume no warranty). I am sure some of our HAG experts then might be able to see if it is "new" inside and carry the original decoder.
		Regards, Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL
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biswasg		#3 Posted : 07 January 2009 21:39:42(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 31/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 234 Location: Geneva, Switzerland		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Caplin <br />Could you take some close-up shots from different angles with the body removed? Yes, the loco is not covered by a warranty. See below an image of the chassis with the body removed. A Marklin decodeder is installed. Gautam
		Gautam
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Webmaster		#4 Posted : 07 January 2009 21:54:01(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC) Posts: 11,161		What is more interesting is what type of decoder it is in the loco and how the lamp bulbs are connected... Flickering lights is normal if the decoder does not have a separate "decoder ground" (orange on M decoders on decoder generations after 6090), and the lamps are connected directly to chassis ground. If the lamps are connected to chassis ground instead of decoder "floating ground", the digital signal causes flickering since the bulbs are then only half-wave rectified with diodes and the feed to them vary with the signal on the track.
		Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service... He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
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biswasg		#5 Posted : 07 January 2009 22:01:34(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 31/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 234 Location: Geneva, Switzerland		The decoder is a Marklin 6090 and the following are the connections: A grey and an yellow wire lead to the light bulbs in the front and rear respectively. The green and blue wires connected to the motor through resistors The red and brown to connectors for pick up. There is no diode that I can see. There is no orange wire.
		Gautam
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Caplin		#6 Posted : 07 January 2009 23:11:23(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,497 Location: Denmark		Hi Gautam. Now that we know the decoder to be a 6090, have a look at this page http://decoder.x-train.de/index...=decoder/digi90/6090.php Pls note where you have to connect a new orange wire (Point 7) for flickerfree lights. See wiring diagram at the bottom. You probably have the one just above if you are lacking the orange wiring. PS. I cannot enlarge your small picture.
		Regards, Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL
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biswasg		#7 Posted : 08 January 2009 00:32:26(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 31/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 234 Location: Geneva, Switzerland		Thank you Benny and Juhan for the solution.
		Gautam
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biswasg		#8 Posted : 17 January 2009 15:43:49(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 31/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 234 Location: Geneva, Switzerland		Today I opened up the engine and took out the decoder from the shell. I see two problems- 1. the Point 7 seems to be the two diodes between Points 5 and 6. It is so small ant tiny, I do not know if my soldering skills will do. 2. the two light bulbs are grounded by the outer shell of the bulbs touching the chassis. To isolate I need to put the bulb in bulb holder isolating it from the chassis and then connect the ground of the holder to point 7. How to isolate the ground of the bulb from the chassis, use a electric tape?
		Gautam
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Murphy		#9 Posted : 17 January 2009 18:37:57(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 26 Location: ,		The headlight flickering nuisance does vary among different brands of Central Units though. With my old stock of c80's and c90's locos with grounded bulbs I've had my share of Christmas tree decoration display on my track before. Surprisingly however, since my latest Central Unit purchase Christmas is all of a sudden virtually over! I've ask the factory how the did this and the mumbled something about a clever sort of order sending the commands until flickering is no longer visible to the eye. Whatever, it works for me. And it might save you a lot of soldering! John
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steventrain		#10 Posted : 17 January 2009 19:20:26(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,606 Location: United Kingdom		Welcome to the forum, Murphy.
		Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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biswasg		#11 Posted : 17 January 2009 19:49:10(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 31/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 234 Location: Geneva, Switzerland		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Murphy <br />The headlight flickering nuisance does vary among different brands of Central Units though. With my old stock of c80's and c90's locos with grounded bulbs I've had my share of Christmas tree decoration display on my track before. Surprisingly however, since my latest Central Unit purchase Christmas is all of a sudden virtually over! I've ask the factory how the did this and the mumbled something about a clever sort of order sending the commands until flickering is no longer visible to the eye. Whatever, it works for me. And it might save you a lot of soldering! John Incidentally, after I changed from Mobile Station to CS1 today, the light flickering is definitely less but now the HAG engine is performing erratically. First it ran almost full speed without my able to brake. Then it would run only in one direction even though the lights change on changing the direction on CS2. And noe finally, it just stands still on the track and does not move in any direction. The lights are the only thing functioning. I had installed the engine manually using Marklin protocol 14 and address 15 which was its original address
		Gautam
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Murphy		#12 Posted : 18 January 2009 01:40:54(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 26 Location: ,		Gautam, Was the Hag engine with the 6090 decoder the only locomotive on your track or were their others also, behaving normally? John P.S. I meant a Central Unit in general, not particularly a Central Station. However, since you have discovered a phenomenon on your CS1, lets try to explain that one.
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biswasg		#13 Posted : 18 January 2009 09:56:42(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 31/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 234 Location: Geneva, Switzerland		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Murphy <br />Gautam, Was the Hag engine with the 6090 decoder the only locomotive on your track or were their others also, behaving normally? John John, When I first noticed the bizzare phenomenon, there was a Marklin Re6/6 also on the track along with the HAG with the 6090. The Re 6/6 was performing fine. After your message, I tried with the HAG alone on the layout, but the result was the same- the lights function works, but the engine doesn't.
		Gautam
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Murphy		#14 Posted : 19 January 2009 14:22:56(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 26 Location: ,		Gautam, Do you have an original CS1, a (Marklin by Esu)updated CS1 or a (Esu) CS1 "Reloaded" with DCC? John
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biswasg		#15 Posted : 19 January 2009 14:40:21(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 31/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 234 Location: Geneva, Switzerland		I have an CS1 updated version. Software ver 2.0.4
		Gautam
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Murphy		#16 Posted : 19 January 2009 19:39:39(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 26 Location: ,		Right, well I've seen so much about the reloaded headlines, I assumed it was out.[:I] Gautam, Have you set the HAG 6090 as Motorola-I or Motorola-II in your CS1? John[B)]
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biswasg		#17 Posted : 19 January 2009 20:26:21(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 31/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 234 Location: Geneva, Switzerland		The protocol is Motorola 14. Th other options on the CS1 menu are- Motorola 27, Motorola 28 and Motorola fx14.
		Gautam
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Murphy		#18 Posted : 20 January 2009 02:33:36(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 26 Location: ,		Gautam, Your HAG 6090 decoder might be one of the first type ever issued, which is a Motorola-I type.(I have one myself.) Try to control your HAG by setting your CS1 for this 6090 to "Motorola fx14". Perhaps, the standard CS1 setting "Motorola 14" is actual a Motorola-II usage. Genuine Motorola-I decoders not only run erratic when confronted with Motorola-II signals, their behaviour is also unpredictable. (As it is in your case.) John
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Murphy		#19 Posted : 26 January 2009 13:28:32(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 26 Location: ,		Gautam, Is your HAG working normally now(on Motorola fx14) ??? John
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biswasg		#20 Posted : 27 January 2009 08:16:03(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 31/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 234 Location: Geneva, Switzerland		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Murphy Is your HAG working normally now(on Motorola fx14) ??? Unfortuantely, not. I tried changing the protocol to fx14, but there is no response, even the light do not change. The only response I get is when I set the protocol to Motorola 14 and that too only switching the lights on/off and when I change direction, the light changes direction too, but no traction. maybe as Lutz mentioned I might have damaged teh decoder. Is there a way to check this (without any additional instruments)?
		Gautam
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Murphy		#21 Posted : 27 January 2009 11:21:59(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 26 Location: ,		Gautam, Actually, you have an additional instrument; your Mobile Station. Try and conclude the following: - If your HAG 6090 also no longer drives on your MS then the 6090 is damaged. - If your HAG 6090 drives normally again on your MS then your CS1 is at fault. John
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biswasg		#22 Posted : 27 January 2009 11:30:07(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 31/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 234 Location: Geneva, Switzerland		It no longer runs on MS so I guess the 6090 may have somehow been damaged. Now if this has to be replaced, what are the alternatives- a 6090 again or is the Locsound 3.5 an option for this HAG motor?
		Gautam
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Murphy		#23 Posted : 28 January 2009 14:41:04(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 26 Location: ,		Well, you might put a Marklin 60760 decoder in it, since you can't buy 6090's anymore [:(!], but that decoder drives a bit crappy.[V] I have no experience with Locsound. Anyone?
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biswasg		#24 Posted : 28 January 2009 15:01:58(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 31/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 234 Location: Geneva, Switzerland		If I understand correct- the 60760 is a set of decoder and high efficiency kit. Do I need to change the motor too or just the decoder will do.
		Gautam
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Murphy		#25 Posted : 28 January 2009 19:24:46(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 26 Location: ,		Gautam, Only the 60760 decoder should do. [^] John.
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