marklin-users.net community | Forum

 
Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error
Home made magnets for digital conversions
Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Previous Topic Next Topic
Offline Brakepad  
#1 Posted : 14 November 2008 12:14:25(UTC)
Retweet
Brakepad

France, Metropolitan   
Joined: 25/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 633
Location: Montlouis sur Loire, France
Hi all,

This comes from another topic, but I think it's interesting enough to open a new topic to discuss about it.

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Brakepad
<br />This topis is becoming very interesting!

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by rugauger
<br />If you want to save even more money, you can remove the field coil from the existing stator and replace it with one of those super-strong magnets (similar to the ones used for the stators in the Marklin 5-pole conversion kits). I run one of these stators with a Lopi V2.0 and the result is very impressive (slightly better than using a HAMO magnet, I'd say).


Richard, that is very interesting. In fact I planned to do an experiment on this (perhaps for christmas, when I'll have some spare time) using a Neodym magnet (button-cell size) that is around here. But I assume the original stator needs precision machining and a good quality surface finish in order to have a good magnetic field on the anchor. I have a friend who has a machining workshop in his garage and I thought I would ask him to help me. Can I ask you how did you cut&machine the "old" anchor?

I think that, maybe, this is the best option (for double reasons: higher magnetic field & much lower cost!), provided that one has the means to machine the old stator armature and does not mind to "loose" original coil stator.

In case the experiment succeeds, I found this website which seems to be the perfect supplier for our purposes:

http://www.supermagnete....locks_small#Q-05-05-02-G

What do you think?

Best regards.

Xavi


And that's it. I'd like to know who of you make your own permanent magnet stators from coil ones, how they perform, how do you cut & machine old stators, and which kind of magnets you use...

All suggestions and previous experiences welcome!!!

Best regards.

Xavi
check out http://maerklin-back-on-track.blogspot.com if you like to see how old Märklin locos are brought back into life! (in spanish by the moment)
Back to top

Wish to join the discussion?! Login to your marklin-users.net community | Forum accountor Register a new forum account. Or Connect via Facebook  
Back to top  
Offline tekin65  
#2 Posted : 14 November 2008 14:05:18(UTC)
Retweet
tekin65

Turkey   
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,151
Location: istanbul,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:
<br />But I assume the original stator needs precision machining and a good quality surface finish in order to have a good magnetic field on the anchor.


Hi there,

I'm very interested in this as well. I have a Hag triebwagen for which there exists no field magnet anchor, which makes it a great candidate for such a project.

I'm quite illiterate in the field; why the stator have to be machined?

Cem.
3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD

Now all eras but no ICE

My loco inventory for the interested
Back to top
WWW
Offline dntower85  
#3 Posted : 14 November 2008 16:24:34(UTC)
Retweet
dntower85

United States   
Joined: 08/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,218
Location: Shady Shores, TX - USA
I plan to do this one day too. (but all good plans allways seem to get postponed for ever) I was going to use my cut off tool in a jig with the stator in my vise. As long as the slot is large enough for the nedione magnet any gap could be shimmed with metal strips.
DT
Now powered by ECoS II unit#2, RocRail
era - some time in the future when the space time continuum is disrupted and ICE 3 Trains run on the same rails as the Adler and BR18's.
Back to top
Offline sudibarba  
#4 Posted : 15 November 2008 04:51:12(UTC)
Retweet
sudibarba

United States   
Joined: 28/07/2006(UTC)
Posts: 880
Location: Augusta, GA USA
Hope someone knows or does this. It sounds like fun and I have plenty of old coil magnets to play with. Looked like the magnets only cost about 50 cents or half a Euro or so. Don't think I will spend time trying to figure this out as hamos are only about $11.
Eric
Back to top
Offline rugauger  
#5 Posted : 16 November 2008 01:43:51(UTC)
Retweet
rugauger

United Kingdom   
Joined: 19/12/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,205
Location: Swindon, Wiltshire
Precision machining? Nah...

I simply made a couple of cuts into the stator with a hacksaw and then filed the rest. I left a very thin bit of the stator on the rotor side for stability. These magnets are so strong; you'll get a good magnetic field anyway. I used a button cell-type of magnet, but I guess whatever you can get your hands on will do.

I stole the idea from a posting in the Stummi forum - here's a picture that shows what the end result looks like:

UserPostedImage
(Photo credit: http://www.bahnhistorie.de)
Richard
Back to top
WWW
Offline sudibarba  
#6 Posted : 16 November 2008 06:55:17(UTC)
Retweet
sudibarba

United States   
Joined: 28/07/2006(UTC)
Posts: 880
Location: Augusta, GA USA
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by rugauger
<br />Precision machining? Nah...

I simply made a couple of cuts into the stator magnet with a hacksaw and then filed the rest. I left a very thin bit of the stator on the rotor side for stability. These magnets are so strong; you'll get a good magnetic field anyway. I used a button cell-type of magnet, but I guess whatever you can get your hands on will do.

I stole the idea from a posting in the Stummi forum - here's a picture that shows what the end result looks like:

Nice work - do you think it gives improvement over the ESU hamos?
Regardless, it's a great hobby effort if thats how you want to spend your time.

Eric




































UserPostedImage
(Photo credit: http://www.bahnhistorie.de)
Back to top
Offline rugauger  
#7 Posted : 17 November 2008 22:49:35(UTC)
Retweet
rugauger

United Kingdom   
Joined: 19/12/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,205
Location: Swindon, Wiltshire
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by sudibarba
Nice work - do you think it gives improvement over the ESU hamos?
Regardless, it's a great hobby effort if thats how you want to spend your time.

Eric

I cannot make a direct comparison with the ESU HAMOs for two reasons:

1) I have read elsewhere that the HAMO magnets supplied by ESU can be (or are) stronger than the standard Marklin ones, and all my HAMO magnets are Marklin

2) all my HAMO conversions to date have been on LFCMs; however, I applied the solution described here to an SFCM.

What I can say is that I am very impressed with the result; it comes very close to the 5-pole in my opinion. I'm using a Lokpilot v2.0 by the way.

And yes, in the absence of a layout to work on, this is one of the ways that I spend my time wink And save myself 25-30 Euros in the process...
Richard
Back to top
WWW
Offline tekin65  
#8 Posted : 17 November 2008 23:07:25(UTC)
Retweet
tekin65

Turkey   
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,151
Location: istanbul,
Hi Richard,

Very good effort indeed! Thanks for sharing. The magnet you used looks pretty small, I guess a bigger one can yield better results. I hope to get my hands dirty with this pretty soon.

Regards,

Cem.
3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD

Now all eras but no ICE

My loco inventory for the interested
Back to top
WWW
Offline dntower85  
#9 Posted : 17 November 2008 23:38:45(UTC)
Retweet
dntower85

United States   
Joined: 08/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,218
Location: Shady Shores, TX - USA
Richard from the photo I can not tell if you used 2 button magnets or just one. And is that silicone that you used to hold the magnets in place?
DT
Now powered by ECoS II unit#2, RocRail
era - some time in the future when the space time continuum is disrupted and ICE 3 Trains run on the same rails as the Adler and BR18's.
Back to top
Offline rugauger  
#10 Posted : 18 November 2008 01:39:06(UTC)
Retweet
rugauger

United Kingdom   
Joined: 19/12/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,205
Location: Swindon, Wiltshire
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by dntower85
<br />Richard from the photo I can not tell if you used 2 button magnets or just one. And is that silicone that you used to hold the magnets in place?

OK, guys, let's be clear here, please refer to my earlier posting: this is NOT my idea; I copied it from some messages from the Stummi forum and take in NO way credit for it (see the subtitle in my posting further above).

Anyway - it is representative of my own effort, and the end result looks almost identical. However, due to this being in a 3039, it's somewhat harder to see what's going on because of the way the stator sits inside the motor bogie:

UserPostedImage

My magnet is slightly larger, I think, about 10mm diameter and 5-6mm thick. This being a magnet, it pretty much secures itself to the stator by - erm - well, being magnetic [:o)] I used superglue instead of silicone, but I suppose whatever sticky substance you have to hand will do Smile. Oh, and the wire on top of the magnet is a "wedge" because I was a bit over-enthusiastic with the hacksaw earlier...

And yes, I used just the one single magnet. It is MUCH stronger than a standard HAMO. Don't forget that too strong a magnet would not be good, either, because it might have too great a "locking" effect on the rotor.
Richard
Back to top
WWW
Offline DTaylor91  
#11 Posted : 18 November 2008 04:21:13(UTC)
Retweet
DTaylor91


Joined: 31/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 414
Location: Kennesaw, GA
If you guys are looking for a good source of neodymium magnets, check out http://www.allelectronics.com. (I think they are on the links page here anyway) They have all sorts of shapes and sizes of neodymium magnets.

Don Taylor
Back to top
Offline rugauger  
#12 Posted : 18 November 2008 12:59:57(UTC)
Retweet
rugauger

United Kingdom   
Joined: 19/12/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,205
Location: Swindon, Wiltshire
I remember now - mine was from Maplins.co.uk. 10mm diameter, 5mm height, their product code YA29G. I'm about to get another one; this time for a DCM conversion on a 3034.
Richard
Back to top
WWW
Offline tekin65  
#13 Posted : 18 November 2008 15:02:44(UTC)
Retweet
tekin65

Turkey   
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,151
Location: istanbul,
Richard hi,

I couldn't get one thing: after stripping the field coil off the stator, did you cut any pieces off stator (to place the magnet) or did you cut the magnet (to place it on the stator)?

Cem.
3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD

Now all eras but no ICE

My loco inventory for the interested
Back to top
WWW
Offline rugauger  
#14 Posted : 20 November 2008 12:09:32(UTC)
Retweet
rugauger

United Kingdom   
Joined: 19/12/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,205
Location: Swindon, Wiltshire
Cem, sorry, I just realised that one of my earlier postings was misleading (now corrected).

I cut out a section from the centre of the stator so that the magnet would fit inside it. I did leave a small bit (about 2mm) on the rotor side so that the stator would remain in one piece. However, removing the centre section completely would not be a problem - if you look at the stators from the 5-pole conversion kits, they top and bottom parts are effectively separate, held together only by the force of the magnet and the white plastic "collar" that wraps around the centre section.
Richard
Back to top
WWW
Offline tekin65  
#15 Posted : 20 November 2008 13:59:01(UTC)
Retweet
tekin65

Turkey   
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,151
Location: istanbul,
Richard hi,

Thanks very much for this valuable info. I soon will try this ... soon as I buy some decoders.

By the way, Uhlenbrock sound decoders (+ function dec.) are selling at about Euro 70 on eBay. I never used one are they good?

Cem.
3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD

Now all eras but no ICE

My loco inventory for the interested
Back to top
WWW
Offline tekin65  
#16 Posted : 01 December 2008 20:34:34(UTC)
Retweet
tekin65

Turkey   
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,151
Location: istanbul,
Richard hi,

Just popped into my mind: can we not just super-glue two magnets to both sides of the stator? Wouldn't that work?

Cem.
3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD

Now all eras but no ICE

My loco inventory for the interested
Back to top
WWW
Offline Webmaster  
#17 Posted : 01 December 2008 21:42:22(UTC)
Retweet
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,165
You need "+" and a "-" (north & south pole) to be effective in each half of the stator so proper magnetic field is generated.

How do you get that if you glue them onto the sides???
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Back to top
WWW Twitter
Offline tekin65  
#18 Posted : 01 December 2008 22:07:41(UTC)
Retweet
tekin65

Turkey   
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,151
Location: istanbul,
I don't know, the idea just "popped", I know very little about that stuff. So now I know, it wouldn't work ...
3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD

Now all eras but no ICE

My loco inventory for the interested
Back to top
WWW
Offline billys7  
#19 Posted : 17 August 2011 13:53:44(UTC)
Retweet
billys7

Greece   
Joined: 27/07/2010(UTC)
Posts: 32
Location: Athens - Greece
So, 2 and a half years later. What happend with this conversion ?
Did someone else tried it ?
I have some neodymium magnets and a lot of locos with AC motor. I am in the point that i will convert the motor to DC, and i was wondering if it is worth to try to replace the field with neodymium magnet.

I found that Rugauger made a good trick and he didn't cut the stator in pieces, so it was easy to place the magnet and to keep the stator "in place".

What about the current ? The consumption increased ?

Vasilis
Back to top
Offline dntower85  
#20 Posted : 17 August 2011 15:31:03(UTC)
Retweet
dntower85

United States   
Joined: 08/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,218
Location: Shady Shores, TX - USA
I still haven't built one yetBlushing
DT
Now powered by ECoS II unit#2, RocRail
era - some time in the future when the space time continuum is disrupted and ICE 3 Trains run on the same rails as the Adler and BR18's.
Back to top
Users browsing this topic
Guest
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2024, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 1.074 seconds.