Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline Marty  
#1 Posted : 22 October 2008 21:31:52(UTC)
Marty

United States   
Joined: 29/05/2008(UTC)
Posts: 272
Location: USA
I have alot of older-version M-track overhead masts (part number 7009, with a nut fixing it to the M-track base) that I'd like to use with K-track. It looks like the easiest option is to flatten the M-track clip at the end, and then just slide the base below the cork or Merkur roadbed. However, I have some reservations about this because if I ever wanted to use these masts again with M-track, I'd have to bend the clips back to the original form, and risk breaking the clip due to metal fatigue.

I think these mast bases have been out of production for some time now, so I'm not sure how difficult or expensive that would be to replace them. Also, in general, I hesitate when modifying anything old.

Does anyone have any alternate suggestions?
Marty
Offline perz  
#2 Posted : 22 October 2008 22:08:30(UTC)
perz

Sweden   
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,521
Location: Sweden
Get a couple of these things:

UserPostedImage

Then screw off the base and screw on those things.

UserPostedImage

Then drill a hole of suitable diameter, put some glue in the hole and put down the mast. You can then unscrew it whenever you want and mount it back on its original base.
Offline DasBert33  
#3 Posted : 22 October 2008 23:04:19(UTC)
DasBert33


Joined: 21/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,165
Location: Mortsel, Belgium
Nice solution! If you take the hexagonal part of the same thickness as the baseplate with the tracks it can even be done without glue, and with some small screws.

I assume your eh 'thing' is M3 size?

I have used these masts with C-track myself. I didn't care much about damaging and have cut of the clip, but kept the base itself. I used small screws to permanently attach the masts.

Bert
Offline perz  
#4 Posted : 23 October 2008 00:01:28(UTC)
perz

Sweden   
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,521
Location: Sweden
I am not sure, but I think they are M2.6 size. If you are lucky enough to find ones that match the thickness of your base plate, you can of course secure them with a nut from underneath, as Bert proposes.
Offline intruder  
#5 Posted : 23 October 2008 02:31:25(UTC)
intruder

Norway   
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,532
Location: Akershus, Norway
Is the thing the securing nut from a PC port?
Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
Offline TTRExpress  
#6 Posted : 23 October 2008 17:32:46(UTC)
TTRExpress

United States   
Joined: 06/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 655
Interesting modification. Do you have a photograph of the mast attached on your layout? Do you screw the mast to the threading and set the screw with glue to the baseboard?

I would think there are various ways to make sure you don't ruin the old M-track catenary bases and attach your masts so that they work with K-track.
Regards (a Scot in Wisconsin),

Maurice [ETE, TTRCA, IG-TRIX Express, Maerklin-Insider & TRIX Profi-Club]
Offline perz  
#7 Posted : 23 October 2008 20:11:46(UTC)
perz

Sweden   
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,521
Location: Sweden
I haven't used the method, just came up with the idea when I saw the question. It is some other distance nut from a PC. The ones for the PC ports are shorter.
Offline TTRExpress  
#8 Posted : 23 October 2008 22:23:10(UTC)
TTRExpress

United States   
Joined: 06/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 655
Hi Perz,

One could simply manufacture a base for the catenary mast from Balsa wood and attach the mast via a screw or glue to that base.
Regards (a Scot in Wisconsin),

Maurice [ETE, TTRCA, IG-TRIX Express, Maerklin-Insider & TRIX Profi-Club]
Offline perz  
#9 Posted : 23 October 2008 23:19:11(UTC)
perz

Sweden   
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,521
Location: Sweden
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by TTRExpress
<br />Hi Perz,

...


I'm not the person who is asking about solutions about this. It is Marty who is asking...

But anyway, I don't think a balsa wood base could be made thin enough to make it possible to attach the mast on it like on the original metal base. The screw in the bottom of the mast is too short for that. Using glue is something I considered being outside the scope of the original question, since Marty does not want to make any irreversible change to the masts and it is difficult to find a glue that can be removed without traces and still is strong enough.

You could of course manufacture new bases from metal. That would work, I think, but there is some work involved in doing that.
Offline Marty  
#10 Posted : 24 October 2008 01:40:17(UTC)
Marty

United States   
Joined: 29/05/2008(UTC)
Posts: 272
Location: USA
Thanks for the suggestion, Perz. This idea seems OK, but I think the threaded standoff would have to pass through a slot, not a hole, in the baseboard to allow for some adjustment. Unlike the Sommerfeldt system, which is soldered in place, the Märklin contact wire segments are a finite length, so the mast postioning has to have some adjustment.

I have done some experimenting with flattening the base clip, and then re-forming back into its original form, and here's what I have discovered:

1) Take it easy flattening the clip. Too much bending pressure in one place will tend to crack the paint and begin metal crazing. I have found that surrounding both sides of the clip with a thin sheet of plastic, and squeezing the plastic with the jaws of smooth, non serrated pliers help the metal "flow" into a flat sheet.

2) When bending the clip back into shape, a piece of M-track makes a perfect die! However, there is something to pay attention to here as well: Use a piece of older-version M-track, the kind with the "mouse hole", and not the slot on the sides, because the older version has a larger radius bend at the base of the roadbed. This larger radius distributes the bend over a larger area and helps prevent metal crazing. I first tried bending with a later version piece of M-track that has the roadbed metal folded over itself and the small radius made the clip begin to craze and the paint to flake off at the bend.

The clip survived the bending flat and rebending cycle OK using either version of M-track, but there are definately things one can do to improve the overall life of the clip...

So I'll probably just go ahead and flatten the bases and take my chances! wink

Thanks, everyone, for the input!
Marty
Offline TTRExpress  
#11 Posted : 24 October 2008 07:19:52(UTC)
TTRExpress

United States   
Joined: 06/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 655
Welcome Marty.

Let us know how it goes.
Regards (a Scot in Wisconsin),

Maurice [ETE, TTRCA, IG-TRIX Express, Maerklin-Insider & TRIX Profi-Club]
Offline mvd71  
#12 Posted : 24 October 2008 10:14:51(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,053
Location: Auckland,
Hi Marty,

I realise that you can straighten and rebend the track bases, but I think the solution that Perz has come up with is a really good one, and you should go with that.

Cheers....

Mike.
Offline Marty  
#13 Posted : 25 October 2008 03:03:08(UTC)
Marty

United States   
Joined: 29/05/2008(UTC)
Posts: 272
Location: USA
Another idea I'm tinkering with is to make a base out of either plastic or brass "c" channel stock. If I used 3/16" channel stock (the flanges of the channel are 3/16"), that would be the same thickness as the standard HO scale cork roadbed. I could lay down a roadbed using this cork, and remove sections where the masts will be placed. Then, on top of this, lay a second layer of cork roadbed thereby capturing the channels. The channels could be adjusted both in and out and side to side, for perfect alignment with the track center and contact wire length. 3/16" shims of any sort (wood, foam, etc.) could also be used instead of the cork as well. Or, milling a 3/16" deep slot in the baseboard would work, too; it would just require more planning. The reason to use channel stock instead of just a flat piece of sheetmetal means that the fastening nut under the mast won't need any clearance - the legs of the channel are deeper than the thickness of the washer and nut. Also, the channel stock is signifigantly stiffer that just a flat piece of plastic or metal. Flimsy base = flimsy mast.

Comments, anyone?
Marty
Offline Marty  
#14 Posted : 05 November 2008 17:39:51(UTC)
Marty

United States   
Joined: 29/05/2008(UTC)
Posts: 272
Location: USA
I have done some hunting around for mast bases, and have found a dealer here in the USA who has quite a few, and at a reasonable price. I also went to a hobby shop and was surprised just how much brass channel stock was going for. So the solution for me is just to buy a handful of spare bases to use as "insurance" against broken clips.Smile

The dealer in the US is Modellbahn Ott. They have quite an inventory of spare parts.

Heres the link:

www.modellbahnott.com

Marty
Offline mike c  
#15 Posted : 07 November 2008 11:56:27(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,411
Location: Montreal, QC
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Marty
<br />I have alot of older-version M-track overhead masts (part number 7009, with a nut fixing it to the M-track base) that I'd like to use with K-track. It looks like the easiest option is to flatten the M-track clip at the end, and then just slide the base below the cork or Merkur roadbed. However, I have some reservations about this because if I ever wanted to use these masts again with M-track, I'd have to bend the clips back to the original form, and risk breaking the clip due to metal fatigue.

I think these mast bases have been out of production for some time now, so I'm not sure how difficult or expensive that would be to replace them. Also, in general, I hesitate when modifying anything old.

Does anyone have any alternate suggestions?


Marty,

As the original M Track masts are pretty hard to come by, you may be able to get a good price for the ones you have. You can then replace them with the more modern version or with the equivalent masts still made by Electrotren (Spain) which are identical to the ones from Maerklin.

Regards

Mike C
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#16 Posted : 07 November 2008 12:10:55(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,798
Location: New Zealand
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by mike c
<br />You can then replace them with the more modern version or with the equivalent masts still made by Electrotren (Spain) which are identical to the ones from Maerklin.


Which, luckily for you, are available from the Eurolokshop.

http://www.eurolokshop.c...catalog-accessories.html
Offline Marty  
#17 Posted : 08 November 2008 05:10:33(UTC)
Marty

United States   
Joined: 29/05/2008(UTC)
Posts: 272
Location: USA
There's no way I would part with my older-version masts; I love the zig-zag lattice Cool. And, they go better with my era III electrics (110, 140, 194). A few years ago I did buy a few Electrotren masts to test out. I was impressed with the quality and especially the price. Too bad they don't make a zig-zag lattice version.

I've still been experimenting with alternate ways to mount my masts with K-track, and I've found something that is really cheap, and may work just fine: Hardware stores sell something called "water heater strapping". It is a strip of galvinized sheetmetal about 3/4 inch wide with pre-punched holes. The strip is sold in a roll (maybe 15 feet long?). I just cut off about a 3 inch strip, made sure it laid flat, and then bolted my mast to it through the smaller of the pre-punched holes. Then, I slide that under the cork roadbed. You do need some relief on the baseboard for the protruding nut of the mast, but that's easy enough to accomplish with a drill and a spade bit. But what I'm also thinking of doing is putting down a layer of 3/16 inch thick indoor/outdoor carpeting on the baseboard first. The pile (carpet side) would face the baseboard, and the vinyl backing of the carpet would face up. After putting a flat board with some weights on the carpet, and letting it set overnight, a smooth, level surface will be ready for the cork roadbed. Between the cork and the carpet backing will go the sheetmetal mast base - slide it in just like a bookmark, and adust it left-right and in-out as necessary. Since the carpet is 3/16 inch above the baseboard, there's no problem with the protruding nut of the mast. Plus, I get additional sound dampening from the carpet.

By the way, I measured the contact wire height with this arrangement, and it comes in at 66-67mm, which is just about right.

This is just another one of my (maybe outlandish [:o)]) ideas ... ...nothing has been decided yet.
Marty
Offline Marty  
#18 Posted : 07 December 2008 22:43:46(UTC)
Marty

United States   
Joined: 29/05/2008(UTC)
Posts: 272
Location: USA
Here's a few pictures so you can see what I'm talking about:

The first two are of an unmodified 7009 M-track mast held in place with a piece of foam under the cork roadbed. The contact wire height is at the minimum of an NEM gauge (about 62mm).

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage


The rest show how I made a mast base from "plumber's tape" and installed it under the cork. The contact wire height here is about 67mm.

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage
Marty
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Marty
Users browsing this topic
OceanSpiders 2.0
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2019, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.806 seconds.