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Offline jocoyn  
#1 Posted : 30 January 2004 15:11:34(UTC)
jocoyn


Joined: 08/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 363
Location: , SC
Just curious and am thinking on my own that maybe, with the new system coming out, existing digital equipment may be more affordable --- at least the controllers, etc. --- though I must say about 90% of what I see on ebay goes for retail or more (but I have purchased some good deals as I always check retail *before* I bid)

We are new to this and have designed a three level layout with 17 (maybe go down to 16) turnouts. No more than three trains at a time. Don't have the good trains -- just starter set stuff -- but then we just want to have fun (and I know digital lok features are awesome but the trains are so expensive) and dont want to break the bank tooooo much -- Dont see us as serious hobbyists (but you never know how addicted we will get)

The start point for all this was just to have a Christmas Garden for the grandkids and then we decided it would be more fun to have something year round we could all build houses and landscape for etc.

I imagine many started in delta or earlier....and at some point decided to "go" digital....

* Was it to run train functions or control the track?
* Is it cheaper to use the controller than multiple boxes?
* Is it easier to control the trains?*
Nancy - slowly Building Southern Appalachians USA mountain layout
Offline Thanos  
#2 Posted : 30 January 2004 15:37:02(UTC)
Thanos


Joined: 19/03/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,088
Location: Athens,
Hi Nancy,

Personally I have never drifted to the Delta areas - I went straight to digital for both track and trains.
With digital it is easier to control the trains + the rest of the solenoids (signals, turnouts, etc). You have more functions for each loco so it is more fun.
Now about the controller, given the new digital era most of the old stuff (6021) will be available for half the price. An 6021 would be an excellent and cheap start (we were all happy with them before the outbreak of the uglyboxes - at least those of us that don't have an IB).
Thanos



Offline rschaffr  
#3 Posted : 30 January 2004 16:17:59(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,176
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Hi Nancy.

I was away from the hobby for about 20 years and dove back in last year. All of my equipment was from the 70's and 80's, hence analog. I decided immediately to go digital for the additional control it gives you. I bought a digital starter set (IMHO the best way to get acquainted and to get the necessary equipment) and fell for it right away. Since then I have converted 9 of my 12 analog loks and have acquired a few more, including a beautiful SBB "My Switzerland" C-Sine.

I'd recommend going right to digital.

My wishlist now includes an IB, but I'm trying to decide if I want to wait until the end of the year and see how the new Marklin central controller is received.

My grown son (who is living at home saving for a house downpayment) and I have started a really extensive layout. It has really been fun. See my page at http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/IB), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline piglesias  
#4 Posted : 30 January 2004 16:23:12(UTC)
piglesias

United States   
Joined: 30/10/2002(UTC)
Posts: 42
Location: (In Dresden, Germany - 2012/3)
That's a great looking layout.
Pablo
Offline rschaffr  
#5 Posted : 30 January 2004 16:33:02(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,176
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Pablo, Thanks.

I should have some more pictures this weekend. I FINALLY got my Busch "Alte Stadt" hintergrund. I have been waiting for that to put on the "skin" between my station and the wall. I'll be working on that this weekend.

Nancy, one other thought. The 6021 and it's associated equipment have their limitations, as have been well documented in this site, but do provide an adequate level of control for a small number of consists. With the new Marklin system coming out, you should be able to get some good deals on them.
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/IB), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline Tex  
#6 Posted : 30 January 2004 17:34:13(UTC)
Tex

United States   
Joined: 30/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 276
Location: Houston, Texas
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by jocoyn
<br />Just curious and am thinking on my own that maybe, with the new system coming out, existing digital equipment may be more affordable --- at least the controllers, etc. --- though I must say about 90% of what I see on ebay goes for retail or more (but I have purchased some good deals as I always check retail *before* I bid)

We are new to this and have designed a three level layout with 17 (maybe go down to 16) turnouts. No more than three trains at a time. Don't have the good trains -- just starter set stuff -- but then we just want to have fun (and I know digital lok features are awesome but the trains are so expensive) and dont want to break the bank tooooo much -- Dont see us as serious hobbyists (but you never know how addicted we will get)

The start point for all this was just to have a Christmas Garden for the grandkids and then we decided it would be more fun to have something year round we could all build houses and landscape for etc.

I imagine many started in delta or earlier....and at some point decided to "go" digital....

* Was it to run train functions or control the track?
* Is it cheaper to use the controller than multiple boxes?
* Is it easier to control the trains?*
Offline Lars Westerlind  
#7 Posted : 30 January 2004 17:44:04(UTC)
Lars Westerlind


Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
Nancy,
digital is for running trains mainly. OK, if you would like computer control or hate cable work, digital is good also for track control, but really, doesn't give you that much. But the train control allows for easily running several trains, much better behaviour in them (smooth braking, speed control and the like), extra functions etc. So in that sense Delta control, and the new Mobile (which both miss accessory control), might be sufficient.

However, Delta is not extendable, so I can't recommend this, except if you get it really cheap. A second hand 6021? Well, most of the design is 20 years old; so again, if you get it really cheap, perhaps. But no, I can't recommend it either.

I think we know to little for recommendation. However, buying one of the starter sets can't be wrong, not even if the new mobile proves to be a really silly thing; there is enough value in the sets to justify the the cost anyway.

And don't forget the Uhlenbrock option. The Daisy set is more competent than the 6021, much more user friendly, and has better extendability. I won't leave my Daisy nor my IB for years, not even if Märklin begin to produce new locos that aren't compatible with Uhlenbrock; and I hope that Uhlenbrock will succeed in supporting any such attempts from Märklin's side.

Kind regards,
Lars Westerlind
Offline Gregor  
#8 Posted : 30 January 2004 17:52:17(UTC)
Gregor

Netherlands   
Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 996
Location: Netherlands
Hello Nancy,

I inherited a large analog layout with 29 trains. This layout was fully automated using contact tracks and mechanical relais.

I added 3 trains, which were digital, mainly because I liked the running characteristics of the digital 37xxx products, but also for the extra functions.

I was challenged by the thought of running a mix of old analog trains and new digital trains together, and fully automatic, so I wrote software to do this. (See topic "What layout or plans for a layout do you have"). Meanwhile I started to convert analog loco's to digital, and now I'm afraid I will have converted them all before the layout will be rebuilt, so all the software development has been in vane.

When you plan to enjoy the hobby with your grandchildren, you will tremendously benefit from digital operation. You can run mulitple trains, without having to worry (and explain) about separate stop sections.

have fun,
Gregor
Offline rugauger  
#9 Posted : 30 January 2004 21:10:24(UTC)
rugauger

United Kingdom   
Joined: 19/12/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,205
Location: Swindon, Wiltshire
Hi Nancy,

Like most others, I suggest you "go digital" from the start, at least for controlling the trains. Delta is dead anyway, and it easier to control the trains with digital since you don't need to separate your layout into different sections.

I came back to the hobby last year after nearly 20 years. I have a handful of locos which I am (slowly [:(]) converting to digital. As you quite rightly say, you should be able to pick some of the current digital equipment (i.e. the 6021 controller) cheaply soon, now that the new system has been announced, and it will be just fine for the children. But do bear in mind that it's "old" technology, as Lars quite rightly said, so make sure you get it really cheap. Alternatively, the starter sets with the new handheld controller from Marklin might also make sense once they are available.
Richard
Offline McLae  
#10 Posted : 30 January 2004 21:48:23(UTC)
McLae


Joined: 16/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,575
Location: DeSoto (Dallas area), TX
I made the jump to Digital when I got a really good deal on a used layout with a 6023 starter set (pre-Delta). Jumped to IB, mostly to save on having to buy 6021 and 6036 to control two trains. I am happy with my IB.

One of the best trends of the last 5 years or so is that Marklin Digital is no longer a monopoly! With the Uhlenbrock controllers, and 15-20 Lok decoder makers, everyone is in a 'feature war'.Smile This means better items at lower prices and more fun for customers.

I recommend getting a starter set and a 6040. You can add other elements later, as you become comfortable with the new systems.

Enjoy!
The McLae
IB digital, DB, OBB, SBB epII-V
Providing a home for little lost 'Gators
Offline Tex  
#11 Posted : 31 January 2004 17:31:42(UTC)
Tex

United States   
Joined: 30/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 276
Location: Houston, Texas
I have operated maklin digital for over 14 years, in fact the digital system is why I chose marklin rather than other way around. Have had no problems with system including factory-installed decoders. Some problems with those installed by self and others.

Tex
Offline kimmo  
#12 Posted : 02 February 2004 15:55:02(UTC)
kimmo


Joined: 11/08/2003(UTC)
Posts: 397
Location: ,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:you should be able to pick some of the current digital equipment (i.e. the 6021 controller) cheaply soon
I think it is obvious for everybody, that even before nobody have bought 6021 with its list price of 300 EUR. New 6021's have always been available in eBay from broken starter sets with about 100-120 EUR a piece. I bought mine that way. Now that the new digital controllers are coming to the market, one should find old 6021's even cheaper, although the difference may not be that big. But IB's for example still cost 370 EUR, and it is difficult to get one cheaper than that anywhere. So I think old 6021's will still be very good value for the money for some time.
Kimmo
Offline Rocca  
#13 Posted : 23 February 2004 20:13:35(UTC)
Rocca

Italy   
Joined: 28/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 615
Hello to everybody,

I would like to have two sections in my layout: one analogic one digital. May I use the old insulator 5022 (I have in fact M track) to connect these two sections?

With best regards
Stefano

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Tex
<br />I have operated maklin digital for over 14 years, Tex
Offline rschaffr  
#14 Posted : 23 February 2004 22:08:52(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,176
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Why would you want to?

You could certainly run digital loks on the analog section, but could not run analog loks on the digital section.

IMHO it would be better to keep them separate.
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/IB), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline jorge_vilarrubi  
#15 Posted : 23 February 2004 22:26:33(UTC)
jorge_vilarrubi


Joined: 15/12/2003(UTC)
Posts: 655
Location: Buenos Aires,
Hi Stefano, when Ron says 'separate', you should keep Digital and AC "SEPARATE", that is, two separate layouts.
If for any reason, you get AC going into the RED digital wire, you'll get a damage to your 6021 / IB.
If you plan to run locos both digital and analog, you'd better remove one system before installing the other.
The 5022 insulator has proved inefficient and dangerous.
Keep your digital system healthy... avoid those dangerous mixes.
Regards,
Jorge Vilarrubí
Buenos Aires
ARGENTINA
Offline KLB  
#16 Posted : 24 February 2004 03:49:46(UTC)
KLB


Joined: 22/09/2001(UTC)
Posts: 639
Location: ,
Hi all,
You can have both.You'll need the so-called rocker arm to seperate the two.But NOT with any loks,etc,with two pick up shoes!
Kevin!

Moderator,Märklin Bar&Grill

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MarklinBandG/
Offline rschaffr  
#17 Posted : 24 February 2004 18:30:37(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,176
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
True, but REALLY dangerous.

-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/IB), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline Rocca  
#18 Posted : 24 February 2004 20:02:27(UTC)
Rocca

Italy   
Joined: 28/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 615
Hi Rschaffr,

Thank you very much for the help!

With best regards
Stefano

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by rschaffr
<br />True, but REALLY dangerous.


Offline Rocca  
#19 Posted : 24 February 2004 20:08:16(UTC)
Rocca

Italy   
Joined: 28/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 615
Hi Jorge,

Finally I understand!!biggrin
Sorry for the insistence, but I have all evident and certainly your solution is for my layout the best one. I have seven locos, 3 of which just delta.

With best regardsSmile
Stefano
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by jorge_vilarrubi
<br />Hi Stefano, when Ron says 'separate', you should keep Digital and AC "SEPARATE", that is, two separate layouts.
If for any reason, you get AC going into the RED digital wire, you'll get a damage to your 6021 / IB.
If you plan to run locos both digital and analog, you'd better remove one system before installing the other.
The 5022 insulator has proved inefficient and dangerous.
Keep your digital system healthy... avoid those dangerous mixes.
Regards,
Offline Monique78  
#20 Posted : 04 March 2004 17:37:18(UTC)
Monique78


Joined: 22/07/2003(UTC)
Posts: 67
Location: ,
Hi Nancy,

I started out on my first day with Marklin by buying two starter sets, one Delta and one small analog. Then I built my layout (15 turnouts, 2qs meter). A few months afterwards I decided to go fully digital, abandon Delta and buy a digital starter set which gave me the 6021 and two trains.
Why did I abandon Delta? its too limited. The locks dont have acceleration and braking (try the difference, its awsome). Controling only 4 loks quickly become frustrating. If you have more you got to keep chaning addresses, remember 'wrong' addresses etc. What a hassle! So, my advice, forget Delta and go digital.

Monique



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