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Offline dntower85  
#1 Posted : 11 August 2008 17:55:06(UTC)
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dntower85

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Joined: 08/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,218
Location: Shady Shores, TX - USA
I have had this happen on two of my Locs now I and I can't figure out how to fix it. I sure this has been covered before but I cant find it in a search.
This weekend after adding more construction to my layout I didn't get the track clean enough. I started running my (new to me) V221 (digital) and when it reached the dirty track it stopped for a second then moved a little more then went into reverse. Now when controlled by my 6021 when the arrow is up the loc is moving backwards. I tried removing the loc from the track then switched direction with the controller then placed it back on the track but it was still going the wrong way.
I know its not that big of a deal with this Loc but with a steam engine it would be more irritating.
DT
Now powered by ECoS II unit#2, RocRail
era - some time in the future when the space time continuum is disrupted and ICE 3 Trains run on the same rails as the Adler and BR18's.
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Offline RayF  
#2 Posted : 11 August 2008 18:03:11(UTC)
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RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,840
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Have you tried doing a reset on your 6021?
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline dntower85  
#3 Posted : 11 August 2008 18:21:43(UTC)
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dntower85

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Joined: 08/01/2006(UTC)
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Location: Shady Shores, TX - USA
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by RayPayas
<br />Have you tried doing a reset on your 6021?


no, but the other loc on the track are running correctly, I'll try it though.

I did try setting the loc on a section of analog track and switched directions then placed it back on the layout. It worked till the direction was switched on the 6021 then it went back to being reversed.
DT
Now powered by ECoS II unit#2, RocRail
era - some time in the future when the space time continuum is disrupted and ICE 3 Trains run on the same rails as the Adler and BR18's.
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Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 11 August 2008 21:53:19(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,276
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Darrin!

What a decoder is in your BR 221?
60901 have absolute direction of travel.
6090, 6080, and old Delta don't.
mfx decoders have absolute direction.
After reversing (with loco on track), 60901, mfx, ESU and other MM II decoders should move in the right (i. e. indicated) direction.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline dntower85  
#5 Posted : 11 August 2008 22:21:59(UTC)
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dntower85

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Joined: 08/01/2006(UTC)
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Location: Shady Shores, TX - USA
Tom,
I think it is the 60901 decoder but I am going to have to open it up and take a look at it again its the typical digital with the 7 dip switches and two potentiometers for speed and breaking but it is connected to an extra sound board with the with the start up sequence delay. The sound board has an extra 4 dip switches that I have know ideal what they are for. I bout this one used and it had no manual included.
DT
Now powered by ECoS II unit#2, RocRail
era - some time in the future when the space time continuum is disrupted and ICE 3 Trains run on the same rails as the Adler and BR18's.
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Offline DTaylor91  
#6 Posted : 11 August 2008 22:48:44(UTC)
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DTaylor91


Joined: 31/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 414
Location: Kennesaw, GA
I had a similar problem, when the direction of travel had somehow gotten reversed from the arrow on the controller. I tried quite a few tricks, but what solved it was leaving it off the track a couple days.

Don Taylor
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Offline dntower85  
#7 Posted : 11 August 2008 22:57:55(UTC)
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dntower85

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Joined: 08/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,218
Location: Shady Shores, TX - USA
Thanks Don I'll try that, I think my other Loc that is messed up is my E19, I'll put that on the track and see what it does, its been over a month since that one has run.
DT
Now powered by ECoS II unit#2, RocRail
era - some time in the future when the space time continuum is disrupted and ICE 3 Trains run on the same rails as the Adler and BR18's.
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Offline DTaylor91  
#8 Posted : 11 August 2008 23:21:25(UTC)
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DTaylor91


Joined: 31/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 414
Location: Kennesaw, GA
OK, good luck. Seems like just leaving it off the track was all I did, but I may have deleted it, left it off the track, then added it again. Try that if the first doesn't work.

Don Taylor
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Offline H0  
#9 Posted : 11 August 2008 23:29:31(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,276
Location: DE-NW
Darrin, if the loco has functions controlled by f1 thru f4 AND DIP switches then it must be a 60901 decoder.
Then it should have the absolute direction.
No idea what could be wrong then ...
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline perz  
#10 Posted : 12 August 2008 01:05:53(UTC)
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perz

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Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,578
Location: Sweden
As Lutz mentions, this is a known bug/feature of mfx decoders and some other "on track programmable" decoders. It can be corrected by correcting the CV value in question ( I don't remember which one right now).

I have never seen this happen with a 6090x decoder, nor have I heard of it.

An additional comment to this is that it is the initial direction that is "wrong", and the direction that is established after a direction change (or obviously also after an occation of bad contact) that is "correct". So, in your case "up" means "backwards" for that lok, intentionally from Märklin.
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Offline H0  
#11 Posted : 12 August 2008 01:47:34(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,276
Location: DE-NW
The Falschfahrbit cannot be the problem here coz the absolute direction is obeyed when direction is reversed.

Falschfahrbit means: if the direction is changed and the loco moves into the domain of another controller (analog to digital, mfx to mm or vice versa), the loco will keep its direction even if against the absolute direction. But when reversing, loco will obey absolute direction.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline perz  
#12 Posted : 12 August 2008 02:29:14(UTC)
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perz

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Location: Sweden
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Hemmerich
<br />
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by perz
<br />As Lutz mentions, this is a known bug/feature of mfx decoders and some other "on track programmable" decoders. It can be corrected by correcting the CV value in question ( I don't remember which one right now).

It's definitely NOT related to mfx, but rather to Bit 1 of CV124. wink

One can test this easily with a signal circuit: ff incorrectly set, after changing the signal from red to green the loco will shortly drive "backwards", then change direction and finally drive "forward" as expected. For mfx decoders, it can as well easily be checked with the ESU LokProgrammer using the "Special Options" menu.

Hope this helped. wink


Of course it is not related to the mfx protocol. I didn't say that either.

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by h-zero
<br /> The Falschfahrbit cannot be the problem here coz the absolute direction is obeyed when direction is reversed.

Falschfahrbit means: if the direction is changed and the loco moves into the domain of another controller (analog to digital, mfx to mm or vice versa), the loco will keep its direction even if against the absolute direction. But when reversing, loco will obey absolute direction.


I think your analysis relies on the assumption that the first observed direction was the correct one, and the direction afterwards was the wrong one. I do not believe that. I think the initial direction was the wrong one (because of the "falschfahrbit") and the direction thereafter was the correct one. Märklin's opinion about "forward" and "backward" is often opposite to the intuitive, according to my experience.
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Offline H0  
#13 Posted : 12 August 2008 15:18:31(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,276
Location: DE-NW
Good point, Perz.
With respect to the V 200, forward means "slider ahead". There are some locos that have the slider under cab 2, so forward means cab 2 ahead.
These locos include V 200, BR 103, E 18, E 19, few BR 101, ...
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline pa-pauls  
#14 Posted : 12 August 2008 16:33:22(UTC)
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pa-pauls


Joined: 08/06/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,842
Location: Norway
Hmmmm [:I]

I must correct you Lutz, model 39821 don't have mfx but the "old" C-Sinus wink
Pål Paulsen
Märklin Spur 1 Digital, epoche 3
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Offline dntower85  
#15 Posted : 12 August 2008 18:28:22(UTC)
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dntower85

United States   
Joined: 08/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,218
Location: Shady Shores, TX - USA
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Hemmerich
<br />
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by dntower85
<br />Tom,
I think it is the 60901 decoder but I am going to have to open it up and take a look at it again its the typical digital with the 7 dip switches and two potentiometers for speed and breaking but it is connected to an extra sound board with the with the start up sequence delay. The sound board has an extra 4 dip switches that I have know ideal what they are for. I bout this one used and it had no manual included.

Hi Darrin,

it could then for example be:

#29811 - 221 104-3 (c91)
#33803 - V200 018 (Delta)
#37803 - V200 018 (c91)
#39800 - V200 021 (mfx)
#39820 - 221 136-5 (mfx)
#39821 - V200 150 (mfx)

Just look up the model and/or road#; but surely the safest way is to open it and look at the decoder (since it was resold).




It this one "#29811 - 221 104-3 (c91)" and its the original decoder.

So can the CV's be set on the c91?

I don't think it is the Falschfahrbit because I can set the Loc on a analog track and reverse the direction, then I put it on the digital track and it does start in the last direction set by the analog system but as soon as the direction is set by the 6021 it goes back to the way it was before placing on the analog track.
If is was the Falschfahrbit its is strange how I operated it for a few days with out it resetting correctly.
So far the solution was swap the coupler( it came with a broken one on the front) and flip the body 180' around so that door 1 is at the head end.



DT
Now powered by ECoS II unit#2, RocRail
era - some time in the future when the space time continuum is disrupted and ICE 3 Trains run on the same rails as the Adler and BR18's.
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Offline dntower85  
#16 Posted : 12 August 2008 18:36:04(UTC)
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dntower85

United States   
Joined: 08/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,218
Location: Shady Shores, TX - USA
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by h-zero
<br />Good point, Perz.
With respect to the V 200, forward means "slider ahead". There are some locos that have the slider under cab 2, so forward means cab 2 ahead.
These locos include V 200, BR 103, E 18, E 19, few BR 101, ...


It now runs with the slider at the rear while in the forward direction. Last week it was slider ahead.
DT
Now powered by ECoS II unit#2, RocRail
era - some time in the future when the space time continuum is disrupted and ICE 3 Trains run on the same rails as the Adler and BR18's.
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