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Armando		#1 Posted : 06 November 2009 23:23:30(UTC) Retweet
You have been a member since:: 21/07/2003(UTC) Posts: 1,358 Location: Houston, Texas		Hi all, I was wondering if you're also experiencing that the headlights on the two 00-Scale (older) crocodile models in this set "flicker" constantly. What could be the cause for it? I am using a CS2 to operate my trains. I should assume that the decoder connections must have been made in a state-of-the-art way for this exaggeratedly overpriced set, which should have ruled out the possibility of flickering. What have you experienced? Märklin does not cease to surprise me!
		Best regards, Armando García
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Nigel Packer		#2 Posted : 07 November 2009 00:08:03(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 11/02/2006(UTC) Posts: 699 Location: Cheshire, UK		Yes, they do this! Obviously, this is deliberate. My assumption is that it is some sort of homage to the original 36159 Insider crocodile (the first official Digital version of the CCS 800/3015), as this one has flickering lights too. Nigel
		Märklin collector since age 5. H0 Collection from 1935 to today.
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steventrain		#3 Posted : 07 November 2009 00:15:53(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,704 Location: United Kingdom		I also have the same as well. It is same as 1950s bulb, No LEDs light.
		Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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RayF		#4 Posted : 07 November 2009 00:32:57(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,871 Location: Gibraltar, Europe		Am I right in saying these locos are not "O" gauge at all? They run on HO track, do they not? The fact that they are a bit bigger than the scale HO version leads me to believe they are to "OO" gauge, which is 1:76 scale. "O" gauge is 32 mm track, and the scale is 1:43 or 1:45. ...or am I totally wrong?
		Ray Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Armando		#5 Posted : 07 November 2009 00:52:01(UTC) Retweet
You have been a member since:: 21/07/2003(UTC) Posts: 1,358 Location: Houston, Texas		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by RayPayas <br />Am I right in saying these locos are not "O" gauge at all? They run on HO track, do they not? The fact that they are a bit bigger than the scale HO version leads me to believe they are to "OO" gauge, which is 1:76 scale. "O" gauge is 32 mm track, and the scale is 1:43 or 1:45. ...or am I totally wrong? On the contrary, Ray, you are totally RIGHT! It was I who should've written "00" in my original posting. It has now been edited. Thanks for pointing it out. Another interesting thing about this model is the level of noise it makes. Unfortunately, I never owned a 3015 so I am unable to compare these two machines.
		Best regards, Armando García
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river6109		#6 Posted : 07 November 2009 06:12:00(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,879 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square		It has this grinding sound and will stay the same for another 100 years and nothing will stop it in its path, this is how well these locos keep. A tank on tracks, so to speak. regards., John
		https://www.youtube.com/river6109 https://www.youtube.com/6109river 5 years in Destruction mode 50 years in Repairing mode
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steventrain		#7 Posted : 07 November 2009 10:20:46(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,704 Location: United Kingdom		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by RayPayas <br /> They run on HO track, do they not? The fact that they are a bit bigger than the scale HO version leads me to believe they are to "OO" gauge, which is 1:76 scale. The 00 gauge 4mm to 1 feet and the HO gauge 3.5mm to 1 feet. Real loco 65.8 Feets long. OO gauge loco lenght 263mm. H0 gauge loco lenght 230mm. On Database said 26.6 cm and 230 cm.
		Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Frostie		#8 Posted : 07 November 2009 13:13:16(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/08/2003(UTC) Posts: 1,614 Location: Birmingham,Alabama		I have the 36159 version, and it sounds like one of those 1950's electric power tools. Roaring noise of a big metal motor and gears grinding. The flickering lights add a bit of nostalgia also. Pretty cool item.
		Train Collection Insured by "Croc's" with "Big Boys" as Backup" CS/MS Digital Era 1/2 Apple Man iPhone / Macbook Pro / iPad - the end of the windows PC occurred on April 4, 2010. Love those Era 1 Tank Locomotives - the more the merrier.
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Armando		#9 Posted : 07 November 2009 17:30:38(UTC) Retweet
You have been a member since:: 21/07/2003(UTC) Posts: 1,358 Location: Houston, Texas		So, the loud grinding noise is normal for this design and doesn't really mean that the loco needs to be oiled? I do suppose that they are oiled at the factory befored they're even shipped out to customers, am I right? A nice feature about the older design 31859 crocs is that they come with the Swiss headlight change: 3 on the front and one on the back. I wonder if the old 3015 also had this feature. Can any lucky owner of this model confirm this? Thanks!
		Best regards, Armando García
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Nigel Packer		#10 Posted : 07 November 2009 18:54:36(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 11/02/2006(UTC) Posts: 699 Location: Cheshire, UK		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Armando <br />A nice feature about the older design 31859 crocs is that they come with the Swiss headlight change: 3 on the front and one on the back. I wonder if the old 3015 also had this feature. Can any lucky owner of this model confirm this? Yes, it did! I have just tested a CCS 800 from 1955, and a 3015 from 1968 and they both have this feature. It is implemented with mechanical electrics, not electronics, so it's quite complicated! Nigel
		Märklin collector since age 5. H0 Collection from 1935 to today.
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Sander van Wijk		#11 Posted : 08 November 2009 19:40:46(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,248 Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands; Göteborg, Sverige,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Armando <br /> What could be the cause for it? The cause for it is a simple one; the loco housing is the ground for the bulbs. Used on a digital layout, a stabilized ground provided by the decoder is prerequisite to prevent flickering. This, however, is not easy to achieve in a model which is equipped with the bulbs mounted in the way they are in this particular model. Changing the way the bulbs are positioned in this model would ruin the vintage look of this model, which is probably the reason why Märklin has chosen not to use a stabilized ground for headlights of this Croc.
		Sander --- Era I(b): K.Bay.Sts.B. and K.W.St.E.
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Jeremy Palmer		#12 Posted : 08 November 2009 23:05:27(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/04/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,464 Location: St. Michael, Barbados		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Hemmerich <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Sander van Wijk which is probably the reason why Märklin has chosen not to use a stabilized ground for headlights of this Croc. Sander, the clear answer is NO; that isn't the reason for the flickering. Hi Lutz, Thanks for helping us reduce the number of possible causes by 1. Let us know when you have figured out the solution, it would be of great help to the non technical here, that would be me. Jeremy.
		Jeremy. 1). If at first you don't succeed, bungee jumping mightn't be for you. 2). The early bird may get the worm, but it's the second rat that gets the cheese.
		WWW
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Sander van Wijk		#13 Posted : 08 November 2009 23:55:06(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,248 Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands; Göteborg, Sverige,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Hemmerich <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Sander van Wijk which is probably the reason why Märklin has chosen not to use a stabilized ground for headlights of this Croc. Sander, the clear answer is NO; that isn't the reason for the flickering. Hi Lutz, Thanks for excluding my reasoning as the possible answer, even though I still believe it is not faulty. Could you please enlighten me (and us) as to what is the real reason for it?
		Sander --- Era I(b): K.Bay.Sts.B. and K.W.St.E.
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Armando		#14 Posted : 09 November 2009 06:38:07(UTC) Retweet
You have been a member since:: 21/07/2003(UTC) Posts: 1,358 Location: Houston, Texas		While we continue racking our brains to try to solve Lutz's riddle, I would like to point out that the headlights on the H0 brown crocodile in this set are almost orange in colour, which I find very nice and warm. It might not be the prototypical right colour though (considering that we finally have now white leds). Also I'd like to ask what exactly is the difference in looks between the Ce 6/8III and Be 6/8III. The Märklin models look exactly the same to me, if I compare for example the Märklin 39563, which is a Ce 6/8III; and the Trix 22584, which is supposed to be a Be 6/8III.
		Best regards, Armando García
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TimR		#15 Posted : 09 November 2009 06:55:00(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,752 Location: Jakarta		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Armando <br />While we continue racking our brains to try to solve Lutz's riddle, I would like to point out that the headlights on the H0 brown crocodile in this set are almost orange in colour, which I find very nice and warm. It might not be the prototypical right colour though (considering that we finally have now white leds). The brown croc is exactly the same as 39562 (different road no) - which also doesn't have white LEDs yet... as you say, might actually be prototypically correct. 39563 is the first Swiss Croc with warm white LEDs - probably the reason is to differentiate it from earlier 39560 release. Read: Marklin's giving an excuse for customers to buy another Krok .
		Now collecting C-Sine models.
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mike c		#16 Posted : 09 November 2009 18:14:25(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,244 Location: Montreal, QC		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Armando I'd like to ask what exactly is the difference in looks between the Ce 6/8III and Be 6/8III. The Märklin models look exactly the same to me, if I compare for example the Märklin 39563, which is a Ce 6/8III; and the Trix 22584, which is supposed to be a Be 6/8III. Armando. There is very little (if any) visual difference between a Ce 6/8III and a Be 6/8III. That was a technical change of name by the SBB as a result of an increased max speed. The Ce 6/8IIIs were renamed into Be 6/8IIIs. The letters B and C refer to the top speed of the locomotive. C indicated a max speed of 60-70 and B indicated a max speed of 70-80. http://www.lokifahrer.ch...gemein/bezeichnungen.htm Krokodil: http://www.lokifahrer.ch...ks-SBB/SBB-Ce_6-8-II.htm (The pages are in German but can be translated) Regards Mike C
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mike c		#17 Posted : 09 November 2009 18:29:05(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,244 Location: Montreal, QC		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Hemmerich <br />Sander, my "No" related to your comment regarding the "vintage look" being the reason for the bulb flickering. For me the only question was if somebody really wanted to change that; my response therefor was for the "how to". PS: Honestly, I could not care less about those bs statements like "exaggeratedly overpriced set" etc., since the next complaint would surely be about the green and white models of these sets not being exact 1:87 scale. Once again, you completely dismiss another member's suggestion without providing any basis for your statement or making any alternate suggestion as to the possible cause. As far as the "How to", your post definitely wasn't an example of "How to" respond to a question in a helpful manner in this forum. I too, would have assumed that the construction of this model would be a faithful reconstruction of the original model and would have the same lighting and connections as the one it replicated. If you need more info, you can contact Tom Catherall at Marklin.com (USA) or try technikfragen at maerklin.de BTW Lutz, I'm surprised you had nothing to say about the fact that the lok was described as OO scale and being too large for HO. Regards Mike C
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Goofy		#18 Posted : 09 November 2009 18:45:25(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,290		Mike... If some other member don´t fuss against Lutz,you will get better information from Lutz and yes even with pictures too...! [^]
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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Armando		#19 Posted : 09 November 2009 20:25:04(UTC) Retweet
You have been a member since:: 21/07/2003(UTC) Posts: 1,358 Location: Houston, Texas		Back on the headlights of the brown crocodile (31860-3). I have an earlier brown crocodile 39561. The headlights on this one are yellow, but they don't glow as warm and nice as the more orange-hued ones on the 31860-3. Will we ever see, for a change, a Märklin all-metal crocodile with engine sounds, details in the cabins and possibly a different wheelrod arrangement? P.S. Lutz: haben Sie wohl die Nacht wegen des Mauerfalls durchgemacht?
		Best regards, Armando García
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Armando		#20 Posted : 09 November 2009 20:27:40(UTC) Retweet
You have been a member since:: 21/07/2003(UTC) Posts: 1,358 Location: Houston, Texas		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by mike c <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Armando I'd like to ask what exactly is the difference in looks between the Ce 6/8III and Be 6/8III. The Märklin models look exactly the same to me, if I compare for example the Märklin 39563, which is a Ce 6/8III; and the Trix 22584, which is supposed to be a Be 6/8III. Armando. There is very little (if any) visual difference between a Ce 6/8III and a Be 6/8III. That was a technical change of name by the SBB as a result of an increased max speed. The Ce 6/8IIIs were renamed into Be 6/8IIIs. The letters B and C refer to the top speed of the locomotive. C indicated a max speed of 60-70 and B indicated a max speed of 70-80. http://www.lokifahrer.ch...gemein/bezeichnungen.htm Krokodil: http://www.lokifahrer.ch...ks-SBB/SBB-Ce_6-8-II.htm (The pages are in German but can be translated) Regards Mike C Thanks Mike. You're always a wealth of information concerning SBB.
		Best regards, Armando García
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Jeremy Palmer		#21 Posted : 09 November 2009 21:16:24(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/04/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,464 Location: St. Michael, Barbados		I know nothing about the prototypes these are based on and worse I had not even noticed that they have the original or at least similiar to original bulbs, I think they are very very cool and I can hardly wait to get my hands on them. Not sure what OO is, I think HO is or was meant to stand for (H)alf of (O). Maybe someone can confirm or repudiate this? I can hardly wait for the 31860 and "black croc" to make their appearance though. I was fortunate to have some hires pics of the 31859 crocs sent and I can hardly wait to see them first hand. Cheers, Jeremy.
		Jeremy. 1). If at first you don't succeed, bungee jumping mightn't be for you. 2). The early bird may get the worm, but it's the second rat that gets the cheese.
		WWW
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TimR		#22 Posted : 09 November 2009 22:10:46(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,752 Location: Jakarta		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Jeremy Palmer Not sure what OO is, Simple, it's a different scale used on MRR; HO = 1:87 OO = 1:76.2 OO-scale model generally ran on HO-scale rails - so they are slightly oversized scale wise for the track they are using. Hence why the brown and white crocos are larger than the brown one. More on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OO_scale
		Now collecting C-Sine models.
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kimballthurlow		#23 Posted : 09 November 2009 22:14:11(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC) Posts: 6,767 Location: Brisbane, Australia		Hi, I see the 31859 on the Märklin database, but not the 31860. What is the 31860? Sorry for my ignorance. Now that I understand that some in the set are HO (1:87), and some are OO (approx 1:76), it makes the set more appealing, as it is more historical from a model view. I did not know this. regards Kimball
		HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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TimR		#24 Posted : 09 November 2009 22:25:50(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,752 Location: Jakarta		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by kimballthurlow <br />Hi, What is the 31860? Hi Kimball, It was discussed here; https://www.marklin-user...41&SearchTerms=31860 It is a very similar set to 31859. Also a non-catalog item, similar to 37893, presumably introduced so that Marklin could cash in from the excess demand for 31859.
		Now collecting C-Sine models.
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kimballthurlow		#25 Posted : 09 November 2009 23:27:28(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC) Posts: 6,767 Location: Brisbane, Australia		Thanks Tim. Yes, I remember it being advertised, but never much detail. Like on Modellzentrum - 31860 SBB Set with 3 Crocs in decoration version 1499,00 € SOLD OUT regards Kimball
		HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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