Thanks Oscar.
I reckon that is a great advance by Märklin.
To show their models on small videos will certainly capture my interest.
regards
Kimball

Nice. But how much is she really, now

Hi,

I wonder why Märklin haven't issued this loco with seperately applied pipes on the body. Moulded pipe details looks pretty out-of-date.

Anybody interested; it is also on sale in station500 eBay shop for USD 370.-.

Cem.

150 clams? Deal!

Cem.

<font face="Verdana][size=2]Yeah, that's what I'd like to know as well .</font id="Verdana]

Then as you describe them "true Märklin fans":

a) are idiots
b) don't know what to do with their money
c) don't have a clue about what a "model" loco should be
d) are deaf and blind

choose one or more ...

Cem.

Awright then,

... but only because you asked nicely

Cem.

Ok, let's not be over-critical. Even with the wrong sand pipes (which many people won't notice, even if they're not idiots), it's actually a nice model for it's age. It's been on my wish list for years.

I agree that it's due for a replacement. When I saw the Br39 announced I assumed that was the purpose of that model. I would not be surprised to see the Br41 now die off gracefully, and be replaced in the catalogue by the Br39.

I still think it's an attractive model, and I'll probably get a second hand one at some point, even if the details are not strictly correct.

Come on guys, these are model trains, toys.
As Ray says:


I have clockwork engines with 4 wheels that are supposed to represent BR01 express engines. I still love them! They were hand wrought by craftsmen.

Much of Märklin's work is still done by hand. We love the models for their artistry, or artisanship, as much as, or even more than, their accuracy.

For many, the BR41 will represent excellent value.
I believe that Märklin know perfectly well, how to handle the market for model trains.
regards
Kimball

I gotta say this, Ignorance is Bliss, and right now, I'm really happy!

Hi Ray ... and others,

I'm not really critisizing the loco other than what I've already written above. For a modern production, it is not to my taste; that's all.

On the other hand I'm really curious about how one might describe a "true Märklin fan" based how Lutz sees them: "but they never care". I know that I wouldn't like to be classified as a "true Märklin fan" by him.

Cem.

True Ray. My Br 41-029 doesn't have much room in the cab for engineers! Also, I just noticed that my Br 50-2362 is even worse.

But it doesn't bother me all that much.

Ray,

I understand, and don't object your point. I just say that it is not for me. I think for a modern production some seperately applied pipes around the body would be very nice.

Motor-in-the-cab thing bothers me most on newer and overpriced items such as SNCF 150-X and it is the only reason I still haven't bought it. In older models such as my 3048 (1968 product) it is no problem at all ... then the production technology was somehow limited, but today ... no thanks.



I suppose we (the early starters) all did chose Märklin for the exact same reasons. But over the years the industry improved and we grew up, and mrr enthusiasts got more knowledable. With the internet, we are now able to discuss, say, minute differences of Swiss prototypes. So I think if we are talking about these details it is only normal some of us want to see -not all but some of- those details on their models. If Märklin refuses to deliver them with acceptable discrepencies others will.

Cem.

The 03, 01.10, 41, 44, 50 and S3/6 are all from the same vintage and all have the cab full of motor. Slowly all are being replaced by new generatioon models that have can or SDS motors instead, like the Wurt. C, Baden IV, 01, 45, 05, 39, 23, etc.

I love the new models, but I also have a soft spot for the oldies, and with the latest enhancements, like accurate valve gear, blackened wheels, full brake gear etc, they are actually really nice looking. If it were a totally new tooling and had the innacuracies mentioned I would be disappointed, like Cem, but I make allowance for the fact that these are "improved" older models.

Kimball,

You'd be surprized if you knew how many buyers know and notice those; remember, average age of people involved in mrr is rising. And for the industry, money to be made is not in the pockets of teenagers anymore.

Besides, even if they don't know all the nitty-gritty at the time of purchase, they get to learn pretty soon.

Cem.

Yep ...

Cem.

Yep, 37889, the only Br44 I have, is as bad as the Br50.

37450 Br45 and 39010 Br01 are both fine.

<font face="Verdana]The 37921 is finally listed as "loco of the month" on the Dutch Märklin site. It's special price is €299 instead of its list price of €379,95. Though a nice discount, it's not cheap enough for me to drop everything and run to the store.</font id="Verdana]

I paid 230 Euros back in 2005.

I'm sure Marklin could do it; if they did potentially it's another gold mine.

The problem is that it won't merely be an update as Marklin did with their e-loks like BR 152 or Taurus. What they did is just dump the motor axle out and replace it with new design with worm gears and support for compact Sinus. Chassis remained the same, body the same, and slap on warm white LEDs to finish off.

With the decapods, this will likely require almost total reconstruction of the frame - might as well be looking at entirely new tooling model. So it won't be cheap...
And if indeed this is the path that Marklin taking, for one, I think the decapods will lose its articulated frame (to save cost); which is something that I will sorely miss.

After all if you can already engineer new models with even longer boiler without articulation like the 45 or 59; why the hassle of doing an articulated one?

I think that we can expect a new br 41 next year our in 2011.

This model had been out since 2004 - one of the first few models to get MFX;
I think the market for this model had since become quite saturated and thus it is at the end of its natural sales cycle; detailed or not. It had been in stock for much of 2007 and 2008 and was quite easy to get at any dealer then.

It is only proper that Marklin ended its production now - just part of their normal business process.

PS:
I think your use of the description of "true Marklin fans" is best avoided in this forum as everyone has their own idea of what constituted a true fan. And I think as a business, Marklin would want as many MRR hobbyists to buy their models rather than exclusively just what constituted as "true fans"; whatever the description of such should be.

Well, I didn't know my Br41 has a Br03 body, and is missing a sandpipe. The fact that the motor cavity fills up most of the engineers cab does not worry me either. It's a Marklin and it's a Br41, it has a 2-8-0 wheel arrangement as per the prototype and it goes well around my layout - it's one of the Br41's that came out of a starter set. I have converted it with a DCM HE motor and Lopi 3. One day I could even put a Loksound it it.

And if Marklin want to retool the model into something more matching the prototype, well that makes me happy too. Maybe, I would even buy one (but I want another Br44 first).

Having said that, I can understand why others would think differently and want different things from the money they pay out. Are they any less a Marklin fan because of that. No! They also have a right to expect value for money, and are quite within their rights to ask for it, or go to someone who will give them what they want.

Telling them they aren't a 'true Marklin fan' is probably not a good PR strategy for a company on the brink of insolvency.

I think Tim has responded to Lutz appropriately in his post above this one.

Nev, Dave,

It’s like Big Brother is watching us and noone is safe from some sort of bashing if they dare to criticize or question the “holy Marklin gods”.

I didn’t even post any criticism yet in regards to BR 41 in this thread. But apparantly in his books I have complain one too many times - probably this includes questioning his posts - and receive some sort of “humourous warning”

In the Crossrail thread, apparantly he also said that I was: “...only wants to complain as usual, but apparently has never seen the loco nor any other "crossi" live before.”
Shouldn’t Marklin feel lucky that I haven’t seen most of the loks I bought in real life and still choose to buy them?

Let him got away the first time; but not for a second time.

I really don’t get what Lutz was trying to achieve over the years.

Sometimes I actually wonder whether he is actually being paid by someone (at Marklin) to be Marklin’s rep in this forum; or as if he is representing Marklin official line. At least that is the impression that he always seem to try to give us.

If and only if the above is true (which I don’t actually think it is );
He’s actually doing a very terrible job, as he hardly ever achieve anything for Marklin from his “attacks” .
Not a single Marklin product would sell any better thanks to this kind of activity; since what he did is only forcing us to recognize Marklin’s greatness, no matter what kind of crap they make.

I mean, posting off putting divisive comments like “true Marklin fans don’t care...”
What is that really about?
Is it really has to be either you’re with us or you against us?
Do you have to be a true fan to buy any Marklin?
Or in my case, do I have to see the lok “live” before I earn the right to buy one or appreciate one?

Cem’s reply to that post should not come as surprise.
What kind of reply would he expect from such a remark?

I’m sure if Cem didn’t do it, somebody else would.
Though unfortunately poor Cem has to cop it and be labeled as a “Marklin basher”.

The fact that all of us (including Cem) actually spend our hard earned money to buy Marklin products and helped to contribute to M*’s struggling bottom line seem to escape his mind. Otherwise, he might as well buy another couple dozen copies of each model to make up for what we don't/won't buy.

Gosh, no wonder he is not posting in Stummi anymore – it would have been too tiring for him trying to defend Marklin in an environment where criticism against Marklin is far and wide (this is from mostly German Marklin customers).
Maybe we are an easier target to control around here.

Sometimes I think with all his oh-so-predictable opinion of any flawless Marklin product;
hey, we might as well talk to the catalog – as what he usually said is just repeating how great the model is.

I am a true fan, and it IRRITATES me somewhat that the THREE pipes from the sand-dome on the BR41 goes to... nowhere!
I have a BR03 of the same stock, and there the pipes goes to the three driving wheels.