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TimR		#51 Posted : 12 September 2009 10:03:00(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,752 Location: Jakarta		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by mmervine <br />Even with the noise, it seems like a nice lok at a pretty good price (considering a full sound decoder). I assume from reading this thread that the shell is metal? Since the 39573 and 39579, all 103s comes with a metal body.
		Now collecting C-Sine models.
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steventrain		#52 Posted : 12 September 2009 10:32:56(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,707 Location: United Kingdom		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by TimR <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by mmervine <br />Even with the noise, it seems like a nice lok at a pretty good price (considering a full sound decoder). I assume from reading this thread that the shell is metal? Since the 39573 and 39579, all 103s comes with a metal body. Yes, It is same but different some functions and running number
		Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Armando		#53 Posted : 15 September 2009 06:18:03(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/07/2003(UTC) Posts: 1,358 Location: Houston, Texas		Notwithstanding the much appreciated improvements made to the shell and boggies, just because of the motor noise, I wouldn't buy it. Sorry!
		Best regards, Armando García
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Ranjit		#54 Posted : 15 September 2009 06:27:46(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/06/2003(UTC) Posts: 3,023 Location: Chennai, Tamil Nadu, INDIA		Hi All, I have placed my birthday gift order for the Marklin #37575 via LokShop on September 02, 2009. Since then, I have not heard or received a proforma invoice from LokShop. Is this because the item has not yet been manufactured and released by factory? When should I expect to receive the proforma invoice from LokShop? Can't wait to hold his beauty in my hands and to see it running on my tracks. Cheers, Ranjit
		Modelling in HO Scale - Era III & IV. K+M Track, Analogue + Digital _____________________________________________________________________________ #Get Vaccinated -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "If you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need" - Marcus Tullius Cicero "Nothing is as powerful as an idea whose time has come" - Victor Marie Hugo "If you can dream it, you can do it" - Walt Disney
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nevw		#55 Posted : 15 September 2009 06:38:49(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC) Posts: 11,071 Location: Murrumba Downs QLD		Ranjit, Every so often about a week interville you will get an email showing your order status. (you should have got an order confirmation when you placed the order) When they have them in stock and they go through the orders in the order received and it comes to your turn to receive the lok you will receive an invoice and requesting payment. If they have your credit card details they will take the payment, then send a payment advise and then shipping advice. So if it is a popular item and there are lots of orders it may take a while to get to you in the waiting list. Currently Lokshop do not have any stock, it is on order.
		NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders and a hose pipe on the aorta Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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Ranjit		#56 Posted : 15 September 2009 08:14:56(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/06/2003(UTC) Posts: 3,023 Location: Chennai, Tamil Nadu, INDIA		Hi Neville, Thank you for that info. I got an offer from LokShop on August 31, 2009, and they requested me to send an e-mail with my confirmation which I did on September 02, 2009. Since then, I have not received anything. Should I give them a call? Cheers, Ranjit
		Modelling in HO Scale - Era III & IV. K+M Track, Analogue + Digital _____________________________________________________________________________ #Get Vaccinated -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "If you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need" - Marcus Tullius Cicero "Nothing is as powerful as an idea whose time has come" - Victor Marie Hugo "If you can dream it, you can do it" - Walt Disney
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nevw		#57 Posted : 15 September 2009 10:46:38(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC) Posts: 11,071 Location: Murrumba Downs QLD		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Ranjit <br />Hi Neville, Thank you for that info. I got an offer from LokShop on August 31, 2009, and they requested me to send an e-mail with my confirmation which I did on September 02, 2009. Since then, I have not received anything. Should I give them a call? Cheers, Ranjit Would not hurt But the Web site shows on Order, NOT in Stock
		NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders and a hose pipe on the aorta Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
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steventrain		#58 Posted : 14 October 2009 23:42:42(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,707 Location: United Kingdom		Very nice, Lutz.
		Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Ranjit		#59 Posted : 15 October 2009 18:57:35(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 18/06/2003(UTC) Posts: 3,023 Location: Chennai, Tamil Nadu, INDIA		Ditto... Can't wait for mine. Thank you for sharing, Lutz. Cheers, Ranjit
		Modelling in HO Scale - Era III & IV. K+M Track, Analogue + Digital _____________________________________________________________________________ #Get Vaccinated -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "If you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need" - Marcus Tullius Cicero "Nothing is as powerful as an idea whose time has come" - Victor Marie Hugo "If you can dream it, you can do it" - Walt Disney
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Natvig		#60 Posted : 16 October 2009 00:52:04(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/11/2008(UTC) Posts: 45 Location: ,		Received mine just last week;- I am very pleased;- this is a wonderful model;- I can not find any faults to detract from such a completely successful model! Besides the good looks, I find that the heavy weight is most assuring,- nothing flimsy here,- all solid and obviously made to last. A welcome addition to my little fleer of locomotives of BR E 03/103 range;- this new one is my fourth. Geir Natvig
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Armando		#61 Posted : 29 October 2009 15:20:27(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/07/2003(UTC) Posts: 1,358 Location: Houston, Texas		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Natvig <br /> Received mine just last week;- I am very pleased;- this is a wonderful model;- I can not find any faults to detract from such a completely successful model! Besides the good looks, I find that the heavy weight is most assuring,- nothing flimsy here,- all solid and obviously made to last. A welcome addition to my little fleer of locomotives of BR E 03/103 range;- this new one is my fourth. Geir Natvig Hej Geir! How about the motor noise? I have read comments on other fora that this model (downgraded from C-sinus to 37xxx) is supposed to be very noisy, so much so that at high speeds the noise from the motor will drown the sound functions. Is it true?
		Best regards, Armando García
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supermoee		#62 Posted : 30 October 2009 02:06:29(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 31/05/2007(UTC) Posts: 534		Hello, the noise is not only coming from the motor, but even from the transmission an the transmission is the same on C-Sinus and 5 pole motors. I have both version and the noise level of the C-Sinus model is lower but not that much. Yes, at higher speed the noise is topping the sound of the decoder, but I do not want the loco to run that fast This problem is common to other locos, for example the Br38. A Faulhaber motor in, but the transmission is that loud... rgds
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Armando		#63 Posted : 01 November 2009 17:22:09(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/07/2003(UTC) Posts: 1,358 Location: Houston, Texas		Lo and behold! Märklin did not remove the unsightly cogwheel from the boggie! What a major disappointment! http://www.dermodellbahn...7575-maerklin-inside.htm GUYS AT MARKLIN: WE URGENTLY NEED A FULL RETOOLING OF THIS MODEL PLEASE !!!!!!!!!!!!!
		Best regards, Armando García
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H0		#64 Posted : 01 November 2009 21:08:16(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,467 Location: DE-NW		Hi! Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Armando <br />Märklin did not remove the unsightly cogwheel from the boggie! What a major disappointment! I'm not disappointed - the cogwheel will go when the SDS version comes. A retooling with full scale length and both trucks powered would be very nice. That would be an M* sensation - and M* would announce that loud enough!
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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TimR		#65 Posted : 01 November 2009 21:42:30(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,752 Location: Jakarta		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by H0 <br />Hi! Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Armando <br />Märklin did not remove the unsightly cogwheel from the boggie! What a major disappointment! I'm not disappointed - the cogwheel will go when the SDS version comes. A retooling with full scale length and both trucks powered would be very nice. That would be an M* sensation - and M* would announce that loud enough! The fact is Marklin still bother to tinker with the current tooling (ie; removing the screw). From this alone I would suspect that Marklin had probably ruled out an entirely new tooling with correct scale length for now... Pity really... considering the prototype lok was once the flagship of DB for almost 20 years; I think it deserved the very best of Marklin technology and attention to detail... much better than what it currently is.
		Now collecting C-Sine models.
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davemr		#66 Posted : 01 November 2009 21:44:41(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/02/2009(UTC) Posts: 983 Location: ,		I had thought of buying this as it looks good but if as said above there are problems with the noise from the motor etc then I will give it a miss. Shame it does not have a SDS motor.
		davemr
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TimR		#67 Posted : 01 November 2009 21:59:43(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,752 Location: Jakarta		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by davemr <br />I had thought of buying this as it looks good but if as said above there are problems with the noise from the motor etc then I will give it a miss. Shame it does not have a SDS motor. Hi Dave, I have the 37571 with exactly the same drivetrain as this model. As many had say it here; it is relatively quite a noisy model; though it ran smoothly and certainly is a strong puller. As a comparison; Re 4/4 II, which had newer drivetrain design, ran quite a bit quieter. Edited by user 02 November 2009 06:37:33(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
		Now collecting C-Sine models.
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davemr		#68 Posted : 02 November 2009 00:11:56(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/02/2009(UTC) Posts: 983 Location: ,		Hi Tim. Where possible now I have been buying models with the SDS motors. I have many models with the older motors which are fine but as I am buying more with sound these days it is an advantage to hear the loco sounds more clearly with the newer set up. dave
		davemr
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jeehring		#69 Posted : 02 November 2009 02:23:58(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Armando <br />Lo and behold! Märklin did not remove the unsightly cogwheel from the boggie! What a major disappointment! http://www.dermodellbahn...7575-maerklin-inside.htm GUYS AT MARKLIN: WE URGENTLY NEED A FULL RETOOLING OF THIS MODEL PLEASE !!!!!!!!!!!!! For manic persons those close up pictures are a true disaster ! Once the lok on the track, this cogwheel is not visible.( well....it's well known : on pictures you even cannot make 1:87 scale different from 1:1 scale [:o)] ) If you can't sleep at night : paint it in black ! ( only one face of the cogwheel) From all 3 models on the market ( marklin-roco-fleischman)The shape of the Marklin E 03 is considered to be the most accomplished( specially the nose/front side). Now, my personnal opinion : I prefer the former model's construction . The screw doesn't look really like a screw, it is painted and hiden under pantographs when folded up...( I mean : if you ask to someone who doesn't know this locomotive he probably never notice it as a screw...) Myself : at first glance I didn't notice the screw. I like hidden screws who doesn't look like screws....
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TimR		#70 Posted : 02 November 2009 02:34:11(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,752 Location: Jakarta		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by jeehring Once the lok on the track, this cogwheel is not visible.( well....it's well known : on pictures you can't even make 1:87 scale different from 1:1 scale [:o)] ) If you can't sleep at night : paint it in black ! ( only one face of the cogwheel) I think at times it can be quite noticable - like the screws, though personally both don't bother me so much in 37571 - I knew about them before deciding to buy the model. But I can understand why it would bother some people, or prospective customers of the model. I agree with you that the Marklin model is still the better looking one out of the bunch.. Now that the screws are out of the way, the manufacture of new boogie for SDS motor will simply eliminate its last two noticable weaknesses (noisy motor and cogwheels); and thus opening up the order books for more customers.
		Now collecting C-Sine models.
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jeehring		#71 Posted : 02 November 2009 02:44:54(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,		IN mechanics : rotor rotating parallel to wheel axle + straight cogwheel transmission = the best design for the best efficiency that's the reason why I do like those dcm motors. The big C-sinus was the worthy successor of DCM motors with straight cogwheels. Big C-sinus was OK for straight cogwheel transmission but not for transmission with worm. Unfortunately too big for the need of accuracy in terms of reproduction. small prefabricated crankcases with cogwheels under transmission axle with worm, are easier to install on flat chassis ( & cheaper) than those typical stream of straight cogwheels (with more complicated mounting of the motor - above all on steamers )...New designs are more standardized. Modern MRR :it is a pity that the need of accuracy leads to designs with perpendicular transmission-axle + worm .[V] Rivets counters got the power, that's the new trend ![}:)]
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Armando		#72 Posted : 02 November 2009 04:21:30(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/07/2003(UTC) Posts: 1,358 Location: Houston, Texas		Now the bad news is that when Märklin finally decide on the long-awaited retooling of this model, it will not bear the 03 001 number... Definitely, I don't like having visible cogwheels or screws on a USD 350+ model. Edited by user 02 November 2009 16:15:12(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
		Best regards, Armando García
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TimR		#73 Posted : 02 November 2009 06:52:46(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,752 Location: Jakarta		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by jeehring Modern MRR :it is a pity that the need of accuracy leads to designs with perpendicular transmission-axle + worm .[V] Rivets counters got the power, that's the new trend ![}:)] I think motor-wise; the term of what we're looking for is refinement really... First impression only happen once; and really sssssilent model is almost guaranteed to give all thumbs up more so than older DCM models, particularly with the next generation of buyers who had been spoiled by digital technology in their life. This group of consumers want everything as silent as possible. A symbol of refinement; Cars today has to barely make any noise or vibration at idle; quieter cooling fan on computers, quieter airliner, quieter motor boat, better home insulation to filter outside noise, etc. One of the most common posts in this forum is; why my entirely new model "jerky and noisy" - 99% at the time associated with DCM models.. Purely from marketing point of view; This gives very bad impression for first-time Marklin customers; locs not running well straight at the box. Whereas with models with brushless motors or Sinus coupled with worm gears; this only occur in a very extremely rare case where quality control is slack. This is just my opinion; but Marklin may need to move the DCM models into something like "Professional" series to further distance them from first time buyers. As for steamers - I don't think compact motor can be avoided - especially if you want a model with open driver's cab... but one can hardly be a rivet counter for wanting that [:I].. A bit off topic warning Just to show what Marklin is up against in terms of what the competitors are offering now; https://www.youtube.com/...esltd#p/u/24/Y_6WHpN0eRM Btw, I love the idea of Marklin having their own Youtube channel like Hornby to showcase their models...
		Now collecting C-Sine models.
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jeehring		#74 Posted : 02 November 2009 14:14:19(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by TimR <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by jeehring Modern MRR :it is a pity that the need of accuracy leads to designs with perpendicular transmission-axle + worm .[V] Rivets counters got the power, that's the new trend ![}:)] One of the most common posts in this forum is; why my entirely new model "jerky and noisy" - 99% at the time associated with DCM models.. ...just because some people forgot that DCM motors need maintenance & looking after: it is like all mechanics. While Brushless motors don't need any maintenance. A cleaned DCM motor + brushes in good shape works perfectly.( of course, the weakness - or one of the weaknesses - of all brushed motors comes from the quality of contact between brushes & commutator [}:)] but this is another thread....) As Supermoe said : small electric motors are not noisy, never. Only some transmissions can be noisy. Those streams of straight cogwheels sometimes are noisy, sometimes are not. They are not so much noisy by themselves. Just a little. 2 cases : -after working 50/80 hours they become more silent. -Above all: in most of the cases it's matter of resonance. Some parts of the model start resonating with the transmission. Also : depending on the shape or design of the body. Sometimes it's easy to reduce the noise. sometimes not. My Digital RE 4/4 II are quite silent- very quiet. More silent than analog version for 2 rails. Streamlined br 03 can be noisy, there is a lot of space into it. reducing noise is not so difficult( some people did it ). Same DCM motors : my F7 - double motorized units - are more silent than my 460, why ? The track as well, could be a part of the resonance with the body etc, etc...( talking about transmission noise. While rumble of wheels on rails is another thread ...)
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tekin65		#75 Posted : 02 November 2009 14:26:58(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,151 Location: istanbul,		Hi, When it comes to the noise; I suspect that when there were no sound decoders or anything similar, Märklin was arranging the cogwheels so that they'd make some noise resembling the original sound of the prototype - steam, diesel, or electric. I have a few Re4/4 IV models with DCM's and they are really really quiet. I also think that it is not the motor but the cogwheel arrangement that makes models noisy. Cem.
		3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD Now all eras but no ICE My loco inventory for the interested
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Armando		#76 Posted : 02 November 2009 16:25:00(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/07/2003(UTC) Posts: 1,358 Location: Houston, Texas		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by jeehring Rivets counters got the power, that's the new trend ![}:)] Well, it was about time this hobby too became serious. I wonder how many model train enthusiasts will continue buying expensive models which are unnecessarily noisy, with unsightly cogwheels, screws and other technical flaws. If I wanted a clockwork model train with cogwheels, etc., I can always buy it for a lot less money at ToysRus or Walmart for example. If I am to pay USD 350+ for a model train, I expect it to be perfect or near perfect, in this high-tech era. No excuses, they have the technology to provide us with that. Look at the 39300 for example. Now, that is a super model! If Gebrüder Märklin & Cie, want my money, they will have to continue retooling locomotives in the future.
		Best regards, Armando García
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Peterail		#77 Posted : 02 November 2009 17:47:13(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/08/2009(UTC) Posts: 48 Location: ,		Hi Armando. I think you are right. If I am spending lots of cash on a model I dont want the roof to have a screw which holds the thing together. All the points raised above that some dont like can be avoided by Marklin and more imprtantly increase sales. This specific model will always be bought by those who think Marklin can do no wrong and I am sure Marklin know this. Hopefully the new owmers will have a different view and give better value for what is a lot of cash. Peter
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TimR		#78 Posted : 02 November 2009 22:47:56(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,752 Location: Jakarta		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by jeehring Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: One of the most common posts in this forum is; why my entirely new model "jerky and noisy" - 99% at the time associated with DCM models.. ...just because some people forgot that DCM motors need maintenance & looking after: it is like all mechanics. While Brushless motors don't need any maintenance. Yes, we all here know that they can be easily maintained... but many first-time customers don't, and it still gives them a nasty surprise as they would have expected their models to ran perfectly smooth from get go. Hence the risk that Marklin could lose these new "recruits"
		Now collecting C-Sine models.
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MärCo		#79 Posted : 03 November 2009 07:09:03(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 06/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 1,159 Location: The Netherlands		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Goofy French locomotiv did tested locomotiv to break the world record of speed. But in the traffic,France did not traffic high speed on the rail until german did first. And i mean regular traffic like germans E03 001... I think the French had very early a high speed network with trains like Le Mistral, Etendard en La Capitole du soir and La Capitole du matin. Most of these trains became part of the TEE network.
		Absolutly AFB-NOHAB fan ;-)
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mjrallare		#80 Posted : 03 November 2009 15:22:57(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 14/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 563		I've just received two 37575s and they are great! Sure, they are a bit noisy but no more than other 37XXXs. I actually like these old motors. They give a robust feeling. I'd rather see a retooled BR 03 or 41 in the coming years. /Torbjörn
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jeehring		#81 Posted : 03 November 2009 18:30:52(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by MärCo <br /> Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Goofy French locomotiv did tested locomotiv to break the world record of speed. But in the traffic,France did not traffic high speed on the rail until german did first. And i mean regular traffic like germans E03 001... I think the French had very early a high speed network with trains like Le Mistral, Etendard en La Capitole du soir and La Capitole du matin. Most of these trains became part of the TEE network. Yes you are right Marco. The French sometimes were not so bad to organize high speed trafic on rails, as well. They were also the first to offer 200 km/h speed service for goods transport on rails. Also for high speed messenger service. In the years 80's, there were some high-speed "postal TGVs" with yellow livery. They were rolling at night with teams of postmen working in it, sorting parcels and letters.... ( I remember when I missed the post office, I could bring an ordinary letter to the station before 11 pm, just put it in the box, I was sure it was delivered to its adressee at 9 am the following day - Today I can't miss the post office : I have to bring it before 4 pm, pay for an extra expensive "special fare" if I want it to be <u>surely</u> delivered the following day...[V])
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supermoee		#82 Posted : 04 November 2009 12:11:20(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 31/05/2007(UTC) Posts: 534		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Armando If I am to pay USD 350+ for a model train, I expect it to be perfect or near perfect, in this high-tech era. No excuses, they have the technology to provide us with that. Hello, Like the famous Bernd Schmid said: "the one who is taking a hobby that seriously did not caught the essence of having a hobby" A hobby should be relaxing and enjoying at first. We have not to forgot that we are buying still a toy, and as a toy it will never be the perfect reproduction of the reality. The perfect model locomotive does not exist. I prefer to have 1 visible, easy accessible screw for maintenance operation, than having to spread a screwless plastic housing by applying a screwdriver on 4 different points at the same time to make the motor maintenance. Is the way more relaxing. And the cogwheel is not visible during the operation of the loco on my layout. I really do not care. If a loco is too expensive for your quality feeling, just do not buy it I find my 37575 the way better than my Insider Br103 with old C-sine. The Insider has old decoder with 14 steps, the E03 has mfx with 128 speed steps. The speed behaviour with 128 speedsteps and 5 pole engine is much better than the C-Sine with 14 steps in my feeling. the noise is relative, since the gear box is loud on both models. So the low noise of the C-Sine does not have a big effect. The sound of the 37575 is gorgeous and gives a good feeling of this powerful loco when it starts to move. The way better than a silent C-sine loco. Watch out for the 4 hidden sounds on the decoder. Wake them up by re-mapping the decoder kind regards Stephan
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RayF		#83 Posted : 04 November 2009 12:15:29(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,871 Location: Gibraltar, Europe		I agree with Stephan. That's how I view the hobby as well.
		Ray Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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davemr		#84 Posted : 04 November 2009 13:40:08(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/02/2009(UTC) Posts: 983 Location: ,		I agree with both points of view here. I would say though that there should be no need for a screw on the top of a loco when it can be placed underneath. HAG and others do it. I also agree that we should not have to go the Roco road by trying to pull apart the body. We are as said buying toys but we are not paying toy prices and that does mean looking for good quality models. However we are all different and enjoy Marklin in our own way.
		davemr
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supermoee		#85 Posted : 04 November 2009 14:28:03(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 31/05/2007(UTC) Posts: 534		Hello Dave, try to reassemble the screws of the 37575 from underneath, You need special magnetical screwdriver (the Märklin screwdriver set does not have) because it is quite complicate to keep the screw in position. On the top it was much more confortable. The fact to be a toy does not help to avoid high prices. There are a lot of other toys the way much more expensive than Märklin Trains. Just take a look on RC Models area, ship modells, Gaming platforms etc. kind regards Stephan
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H0		#86 Posted : 04 November 2009 14:32:02(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,467 Location: DE-NW		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by supermoee <br />The Insider has old decoder with 14 steps, the E03 has mfx with 128 speed steps. The Insider loco has 27 speed steps - even with CU6021 and Intellibox (choose Motorola 27 to drive it with a CS1/ECoS). I run my mfx locos with 28 speed steps (126 speed steps are too fine for me). Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by supermoee <br />Watch out for the 4 hidden sounds on the decoder. Wake them up by re-mapping the decoder I presume you have a CS1 ...
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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H0		#87 Posted : 04 November 2009 14:34:00(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,467 Location: DE-NW		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by davemr <br />I would say though that there should be no need for a screw on the top of a loco when it can be placed underneath. This thread is about Märklin 37575 - a loco that has no screws on top.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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H0		#88 Posted : 04 November 2009 14:35:47(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,467 Location: DE-NW		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by supermoee <br />You need special magnetical screwdriver (the Märklin screwdriver set does not have) Take a screw driver, take a strong magnet, draw the screwdriver a few times over the magnet: there's your magnetic screwdriver ... The old BR 216 has a screw on top - you don't have to take it off of the track to open it. The old BR 18.4 has a screw on top - hidden under a plastic lid. It's not that easy with new E 10.12, BR 218, or BR 10 (but it's good that there are no visible screws on top). Still waiting for my 37575 ...
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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davemr		#89 Posted : 04 November 2009 15:30:52(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/02/2009(UTC) Posts: 983 Location: ,		Does seem strange that looking at my HAG and Brawa locos they have screws underneath that with a few turns of an ordinary screw driver the body comes off. However as said this does not apply to the loco we are talking about which it is clear some like and some do not. With regard to prices you can buy a lap top computer for the same price as a loco (and a TV or video for less) Gaming consols here in the UK are about half the cost of a Marklin loco. Just bought an Intendo Wii for £159. The price of Marklin is what we have to pay as not many folk buy their stuff compared to other toys or goods etc. Small turnover..large profit margin. Anyway I like the World Sensation but would have preferred a SDS motor.
		davemr
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supermoee		#90 Posted : 04 November 2009 17:37:47(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 31/05/2007(UTC) Posts: 534		Hello Dave, a new gaming console cost much more at his coming out than yet. After some years I can get Märklin locos for nearly half a price too at the right dealer . Than you are bringing the example of the cheapest console on the market, There are more expensive ones. But you forgot, that with only a console you cannot have fun. You need games, and each game give you 5-6 hours fun and than it is over, you need a new one, and another one. And if you want to play with more people, you need further controller, or an internet connection which costs you a lot of money. etc. And do not forget the dead rate of such a console. A friend of mine has already his third XboX360, since the other 2 died. but this is off-topic. Lutz, I opened my 37575, I know how it is with the screws. Hello Tom, the MM2 format has 27, but those are faked by inventing virtual half steps in between of the 14 steps. The central is going 1 step up and one down continously to have the average "middle step". Only sub-optimal rgds Stephan
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mjrallare		#91 Posted : 04 November 2009 19:05:48(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 14/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 563		The most important thing when screwing a model, is not to have a floppy screwdriver... /Torbjörn
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RayF		#92 Posted : 04 November 2009 20:01:38(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,871 Location: Gibraltar, Europe		Now we're talking!!!
		Ray Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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H0		#93 Posted : 04 November 2009 21:23:47(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,467 Location: DE-NW		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by supermoee <br />the MM2 format has 27, but those are faked by inventing virtual half steps in between of the 14 steps. The central is going 1 step up and one down continously to have the average "middle step". Only sub-optimal The MM2 protocol has 14 speed steps, but the decoder has 27 speed steps. And if your controller supports Motorola 27, you simply turn the dial from 0 to 27 - nothing sub-optimal about that. Correct: the controller has to send two commands with 14 speed steps to get it done - but not continously (as I said: the decoder does it). You can even use the 27 speed steps if the controller only supports 14 speed steps (because the decoder does it). That's not optimal, but OK for me. Motorola 28 is a better way (IMHO), but only M* locos with ESU decoders support that.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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TimR		#94 Posted : 04 November 2009 21:30:51(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,752 Location: Jakarta		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by supermoee try to reassemble the screws of the 37575 from underneath, You need special magnetical screwdriver (the Märklin screwdriver set does not have) because it is quite complicate to keep the screw in position. On the top it was much more confortable. I found it to be the other way around.. With the 103 with the screws on top - for maintenance I found it a bit a pain to open as the pantographs are slightly in the way... visually I'm more forgiving... Actually I don't really find that Marklin really need to remove 103's original screws on top. Having the screws underneath actually will make it a lot easier to open. My (NZ)$10 screw set is magnetical and helps quite a bit in unscrewing. Even older toolings like Re460, Ae6/6, BR152, BR185, etc they all have this arrangement and I found no problems at all..
		Now collecting C-Sine models.
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