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Offline TimR  
#1 Posted : 22 April 2009 04:22:26(UTC)
TimR

Indonesia   
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,752
Location: Jakarta
Ok, let me get this thing right?

Modern DCC decoder can now be set to run on 128 steps as well set up with up to 16 sound functions, right? They can also be programmed to get up to xxxx number of address.
So other than automatic loc detection, what other advantage does MFX got over DCC these days?

Please excuse my poor knowledge on this subject..
(been too busy collecting locs to worry about digital equipments lately).
Now collecting C-Sine models.
Offline Gustavo Villa  
#2 Posted : 22 April 2009 08:39:55(UTC)
Gustavo Villa

Chile   
Joined: 17/07/2005(UTC)
Posts: 260
Location: Viña del Mar, Chile
DCC decoders have some of those features almost 6 years before MFX (like 128 steps).

As far as I know internally both systems are very similar with a different protocol. In use they are almost identical. At the beginning of MFX the only advantage was the loc detection, but in DCC that feature is called "Railcom" and it have been in the market for about 3 years and right now is fully operational (due to compatibility and standardization process). Any new technology improvement in DCC has to be approved by a standardization NMRA board, so any new feature can take some time to be fully implemented for all DCC brands.

Both technologies have big growing potentials, for example they can add more and more functions to decoders with just a minor central update. Actually some updated DCC centrals can manage 29 functions.
Offline Goofy  
#3 Posted : 22 April 2009 11:29:53(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,273
Lenz digital plus has 29 functions now at the new system upgrade V 3.6

Impressive...!
But can been seems a quiet boring by control all functions at digitallocomotiv...
I prefer normally(?)10-12 functions and possible to choise difference speed like 14,28 and 128 speedsteeps.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 22 April 2009 22:28:19(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,432
Location: DE-NW
AFAIK DCC can have 32767 functions per loco address.
An IB with software version 2.0 (vapourware for several years now :-( ) will support 9999 functions per address (even more with the new IB II).

The CS 1 with software 3.0.0 will support 20 functions per DCC address.

Advantages of mfx? From my point of view there are none (because automatic loco registration can't be turned off).
I had problems with locos that ran fine on MM protocol but failed to register with the CS. Since automatic loco detection can't be disabled, these locos would not run - nor could the be programmed with the CS 1.

Another disadvantage of mfx: you need a LokProgrammer or at least a CS 1 to adjust some of the (basic) settings like speed curves. intensity of head lights, function assignment.

Well - there really is an advantage: loco functions automatically receive an appropriate symbol - this can't be done with many DCC symbols or is left as an excercise to the reader ...
The loco name could be an advantage, too (but M* normally goof the loconames up so I change most of them (but at least the loco remembers the new name)).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline TimR  
#5 Posted : 23 April 2009 01:03:05(UTC)
TimR

Indonesia   
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,752
Location: Jakarta
Thanks for all your information..

Now I really think that Marklin should be looking at the sensibility of opening up licensing/development of MFX protocol for third party developers.

To think about it, probably the only other advantage (or another disadvantage) that MFX got is its standardization across Marklin range. Whereas with DCC every user has their own mind in regards to what the want.. so it's messier but more promising it seems.

And as far as I can see, DCC decoders are cheaper too (because there are a number of competing producers).
Now collecting C-Sine models.
Offline mascagni  
#6 Posted : 23 April 2009 15:16:21(UTC)
mascagni


Joined: 25/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 826
Location: Tallahassee, FL USA
I hope there are more differences between MFX and DCC, or Maerklin will become an ever shrinking island of incompatibility with the majority of the digital model railroading world. It has prospered as the main 3-rail manufacturer, but one could argue that one reason it is having difficulties is that many other companies are starting to compete with them to supply rolling stock for 3-rail AC. Given that most of that will be DCC, it seems that it is inevitable.--MM
Michael Mascagni, Tallahassee
If I weren't a Mathematician, I'd be a Violinist.--Albert Einstein
Offline jeehring  
#7 Posted : 23 April 2009 17:08:38(UTC)
jeehring


Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,786
Location: ,
As a transmission protocole , it is commonly said that MFX is faster than DCC ( 5 or 6 times , something like that...)
As for me, I never have made any measurements...[8)].
( SX2 protocole from Trix also has the reputation to be very fast )
Offline Gustavo Villa  
#8 Posted : 23 April 2009 19:51:23(UTC)
Gustavo Villa

Chile   
Joined: 17/07/2005(UTC)
Posts: 260
Location: Viña del Mar, Chile
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by jeehring
<br />As a transmission protocole , it is commonly said that MFX is faster than DCC ( 5 or 6 times , something like that...)
As for me, I never have made any measurements...[8)].
( SX2 protocole from Trix also has the reputation to be very fast )



There are also differences in speed between different DCC centrals architecture, for example Digitrax central based on loconet is way faster than lenz xpressnet network, nevertheless even in huge layouts, xpressnet network from lenz it is more than enough.
Offline Goofy  
#9 Posted : 23 April 2009 19:56:26(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,273
It´s only in ms(milliseconds) to understand in difference of speed.
Who are thinking like this,when you are driving locomotivs anyway in MM or and DCC...?

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline perz  
#10 Posted : 24 April 2009 02:14:23(UTC)
perz

Sweden   
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,578
Location: Sweden
In the forward direction I can't see any major advantages or drawbacks with any of the protocols. I think mfx is slightly more DIY-friendly than DCC, but it is just marginal. I have implemented the low level parts of both in my home made control system, so I think I know what I am talking about.

For the return path, there are bigger differences. The DCC Railcom allows for much higher reverse bandwidth than mfx. On the other hand, the Railcom electrical principle is far less robust than the one used by mfx feedback. This is from a theoretical perspective. Implementation issues could make the robustness relation different in practice.

Forward DCC and forward MFX can coexist without problems. Implementing both in a control unit couldn't be much of a technical issue. The reason why it has taken so long is probably market related rather than technical.

For the backward channel there is an added cost if you need to support both. Since they use different electrical principles you need separate circuitry for each protocol. That is not the case in the forward direction.
Offline WelshMatt  
#11 Posted : 24 April 2009 11:15:31(UTC)
WelshMatt


Joined: 06/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,345
Location: ,
The loco name thing isn't much of an advantage for MFX, as it still only supports two-digit addressing. I've seen a few people complaining about DCC "who has 9999 locos?". That's not why they have four digit addressing. The four digits allow you to use the number on the side of the loco (or the last four digits anyway) as its address. That way, you just have to look on the side of the loco you want to drive, type in the number, and go.

Matt from Wales.

When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality
Offline H0  
#12 Posted : 24 April 2009 11:35:09(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,432
Location: DE-NW
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by WelshMatt
<br />The loco name thing isn't much of an advantage for MFX, as it still only supports two-digit addressing.

mfx uses "four-digit" addressing (14 bit IIRC) - but mfx decoders used with MM protocol only support 8-bit addresses (1 through 255).
DCC decoders used with MM protocol sometimes only support addresses 1 through 127 ...
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline RayF  
#13 Posted : 24 April 2009 11:36:56(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,870
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by WelshMatt
<br />The loco name thing isn't much of an advantage for MFX, as it still only supports two-digit addressing. I've seen a few people complaining about DCC "who has 9999 locos?". That's not why they have four digit addressing. The four digits allow you to use the number on the side of the loco (or the last four digits anyway) as its address. That way, you just have to look on the side of the loco you want to drive, type in the number, and go.




I've always been slightly amused by this. Can you see the number on the side of your loco when it's way over the other end of your layout? Even with my small layout, I find it easier to have a sheet with the loco addresses bedide me than to try and make out a tiny number on the side of a loco!

...or are we relying on memory here?
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline mascagni  
#14 Posted : 24 April 2009 14:28:38(UTC)
mascagni


Joined: 25/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 826
Location: Tallahassee, FL USA
Ray: The issue isn't whether you can see it, but remember it. You might get to know all your machines with numerical neumonics, and the more digits your brain has, the better. However, as our eyes become less powerful, so do our brains.--MM
Michael Mascagni, Tallahassee
If I weren't a Mathematician, I'd be a Violinist.--Albert Einstein
Offline RayF  
#15 Posted : 24 April 2009 14:34:15(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,870
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
So true, unfortunately!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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