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Offline osoraku  
#1 Posted : 20 November 2025 10:07:35(UTC)
osoraku

Portugal   
Joined: 22/01/2025(UTC)
Posts: 87
Location: Setubal, Palmela
Dear All -

Serendipitously stumbling across this while researching another topic, I learned about wifi-enabled decoders. This technology allows you to connect directly to a decoder on a loco / accessory to control it and receive feedback. (Some is not wifi-based but rather bluetooth-based - less bandwidth but a lower power requirement.) I'm sure you can see the benefits of such a scheme: the track supplies only power, freedom from specific protocols like DCC / MFX etc., unrestricted feedback from locos / accessories to name a few that occur to me.

The ecosystem seems to be quite small at present. A few start-ups are / were marketing decoders, namely loco.engineering and BlueRail trains. Additionally, Geoff Bunza's MRH Forum blog provides a DIY approach. Microcontrollers with built-in wifi are cheap and available in sizes like present decoders and can be run off of track power or even batteries (and thus a dead rail option).

What do other forum members know about the technology (is it bleeding edge or passé), are there providers other than those listed, and are there any present users of it who can speak from experience about its strengths and weaknesses?

Osoraku

Edit: Other providers are Hornby (HM7000 series) and LocoFi, which weren't in the original posting.

Edited by user 30 November 2025 12:13:16(UTC)  | Reason: Added other providers

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Offline Alsterstreek  
#2 Posted : 20 November 2025 13:08:50(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Germany   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 6,030
Location: Hybrid Home
Still cutting edge, but uncertain whether it will prevail. I could only find US-based information. This website lists an array of suppliers: https://www.deadrailsoci...com/dead-rail-suppliers/

I could not find any reference to this supplier anywhere else: https://www.wifimodelrailroad.com/

This recent thread might be interesting in this regard, too: https://www.marklin-user...t52607-Dead-Rail-HO---OO
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Offline EB421  
#3 Posted : 20 November 2025 20:11:33(UTC)
EB421

United Kingdom   
Joined: 10/04/2025(UTC)
Posts: 53
Location: UK
When I'm not ruining IKEA products, I work in IT infrastructure.

I remain deeply unconvinced. At a home level, these products are cool - HM7000 particularly is very neat; except for the part where you have to give them personal data to be allowed to open the app. Cringe. Still; at this point they need to get rid of the iTraveller and all the DC controllers and just ship every starter-set loco pre-fitted with R7335. It'd make so much more sense from both a product perspective and a marketing perspective; and would mean meeting the same real-world specs as Marklin start-up but at a much lower cost (as no MS2). Actually - possibly lower cost than their current DC sets!

I also use a Roco z21 system as my only controller, and it works well! However I also have drivers-eye-view in one of my locomotives and keeping the WiFi stable enough for that is frequently challenging.

And at a show? 100 loco's in a room, all connected by bluetooth or WiFi; all interfering with each other, the building WiFi, whatever hotspots people have set up on their phone... (and my camera train) that sounds hellish to me.

For that reason; if I was doing any serious driving with multiple loco's I'd hook my phone/tablet to the z21 over the ethernet network to avoid issues with WiFi and Bluetooth - especially since anything in a Loco is going to be on 2.4GHz and fighting every piece of IoT trash around.

This makes more sense for larger gauges to me; where density of trains will be lower - but I'd still be cautious of it at event-scale.

I wonder if Miniatur Wunderland use WiFi control for anything?
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#4 Posted : 21 November 2025 00:15:37(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,600
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: EB421 Go to Quoted Post

And at a show? 100 loco's in a room, all connected by bluetooth or WiFi; all interfering with each other, the building WiFi, whatever hotspots people have set up on their phone... (and my camera train) that sounds hellish to me.


Now imagine the possibility of someone with a bent mind and the app on their phone visiting a show and attempting to take over an HM7000 decoder on a layout without the operator realising. Set it running at full speed where it shouldn't go maybe, possibly causing damage.

I am not aware of any security with the HM7000 decoders whereby one could lock a decoder to a single handset.

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Offline xxup  
#5 Posted : 22 November 2025 04:49:32(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,688
Location: Australia
The nice thing about Bluetooth is its low range. But I guess that if you are close to the layout with HM7000 trains then there is a great opportunity to cause havoc. WiFi does not need intervention that 2.4Ghz band is simply saturated wherever you go in a large city - you can be sure of drop-outs etc. Ever tried to use a wifi service in any of the large hotels? Watching netflix is not possible. Even in small country towns, it can be troublesome. All sorts of appliances have it - solar inverters (very common where I live), cars (usually a bit more secure than toasters), TVs, Blueray players, sound bars, and dog collars. And THEN there is blue-tooth - watches, phones, speakers, and cars again.
Adrian
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Australia flag by abFlags.com
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Offline EB421  
#6 Posted : 22 November 2025 23:24:23(UTC)
EB421

United Kingdom   
Joined: 10/04/2025(UTC)
Posts: 53
Location: UK
When the world is mine, HM7001 will be released which is just HM7000 with Railcom (and I guess resized slightly for the people who had trouble fitting them), DCC-override by default (unless you set a CV; putting the loco on a DCC track will turn Bluetooth off) and with proper DCC support, not the silly 15V cut-off that means I can't run them on my track (because my z21 runs at 20V for smoke-fitted locos).

That way; anyone could use it regardless of their track voltage, you could use bluetooth at home all day long on your 15VDC layout - but when you took it to a club or show - bluetooth goes off; DCC and Railcom go on, you can PoM, just like a normal decoder.
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Offline stevend  
#7 Posted : 23 November 2025 20:15:59(UTC)
stevend

New Zealand   
Joined: 25/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 31
Location: Christchurch,
Hi,

While I love the Wi-Fi method, I have found in practice - especially at train shows Wi-Fi to be really unreliable, and more so when you need to tell a loco to stop, in a hurry.

: )

D
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Offline osoraku  
#8 Posted : 30 November 2025 18:23:41(UTC)
osoraku

Portugal   
Joined: 22/01/2025(UTC)
Posts: 87
Location: Setubal, Palmela
After a week-long pause to accumulate responses, I'll review and try to air a few more points. Thanks to all who responded so far; keep adding new information if you have it. (Photos of installed equipment welcome, too.)

The technology seems relatively new. Only Hornby among the major model railroad manufacturers provides a product. The other designers are either small-scale or DIY; at least one appears to be defunct.

Among the respondents, the Hornby offering is not appealing, but it isn't clear whether anybody actively uses or used it and moved on.

Horrific problems are forecast at meets, when too many things are competing for too little wifi bandwidth, especially at 2.4 GHz. Again, it isn't clear whether this is a lived experience or a foreseeable intrinsic design flaw. (The ESP32 series chips provide 5 GHz wifi in a 2 cm x 3 cm package, so it also isn't clear whether the 2.4 vs 5 GHz band problem is only a temporary one.)

Those who stream cab front video over wifi also foresee problems with (2.4 GHz) bandwidth competition with wifi loco control.

Moving to what hasn't been discussed yet:-

How has anybody who *has* used it benefited from wifi control? Fewer / more decoder problems? Easier / more difficult decoder programming? New automation possibilities with more voluminous feedback?

Wifi protocols are a potentially problematic area. It is clear to me that one could run Marklin's CS2 CAN protocol over wifi (I do this already), which is (mostly) a public standard. Hornby's HM7000 wifi protocol is not: once you adopt the technology, it appears that you're stuck with their controllers (if wrong, enlighten me, please). The DIY solution clearly does not have this problem, but there's less information about the others. It is unclear to me what LocoFi's protocol is. (Personally, I wouldn't use anything that I couldn't bit-bang myself, but opinions vary widely on the proprietary protocol point.)

Is there enough space inside a typical loco to fit in the wifi decoders? For the DIY solution, the answer is no but that's a hobbyist's trade-off. I could imagine a chip with a 21MTC connector dangling from wires that could tuck itself anywhere inside a loco body; possibly even in a trailing tender/carriage/wagon with a sufficiently long harness.

Many people commented about network response due to congestion, particularly at meets; I'm rather more interested in home use. Poor network response can come about for many reasons, not just bandwidth competition: radio interference, router capability/capacity, local network (mis-?) configuration, local network capacity chief among them. But loco control data rates are infinitesimal compared to even e-mail or video streaming, so, again, hearing about lived personal experience with wifi control would be welcome.

Those with outdoor layouts who probably either use or wish for dead rail running could probably benefit most from wifi control. Being larger gauge, generally, fitting even DIY wifi decoders would be a doddle. Any experience out there to share?

Osoraku
Offline EB421  
#9 Posted : 30 November 2025 19:39:58(UTC)
EB421

United Kingdom   
Joined: 10/04/2025(UTC)
Posts: 53
Location: UK
Originally Posted by: osoraku Go to Quoted Post

Horrific problems are forecast at meets, when too many things are competing for too little wifi bandwidth, especially at 2.4 GHz. Again, it isn't clear whether this is a lived experience or a foreseeable intrinsic design flaw.


Lived experience; but not with Decoders specifically. It's lived with other Bluetooth devices in densely congested areas. Staff frequently complain that I won't give them wireless peripherals, then complain more when I cave; and they find out WHY.

Quote:

Hornby's HM7000 wifi protocol is not: once you adopt the technology, it appears that you're stuck with their controllers (if wrong, enlighten me, please).


To be clear, HM7000 is Bluetooth and not WiFi. Once you are on their system you are *sort-of* vendor-locked to their decoders - but only if you insist on avoiding DCC track entirely. If you have a Roco Z21 or Hornby Elite you can install HM7040, their HM7000-app-to-legacy-controllers adapter. That lets you run locos on a DCC layout through the Hornby app. Of course HM7000 decoders will also work on standard DCC if you give up on their app; as long as your layout is built to NMRA voltage instead of NEM (15V as opposed to 24V).

Quote:

Is there enough space inside a typical loco to fit in the wifi decoders?


Mixed bag. The HM7000 ones are notable for being larger, and having issues with SOME locos. So ymmv depending on what you're fitting it into.

Quote:

Many people commented about network response due to congestion, particularly at meets; I'm rather more interested in home use ... so, again, hearing about lived personal experience with wifi control would be welcome.


Well; as I said before - I use WiFi control in my home using a z21 and the z21 app (I literally don't own a Multimaus handset) - and it's fine. There's the occasional panic when a loco doesn't respond - but that's probably just me missing the button on the phone. These products are intended for home use, and in most cases they will be fine - however the same things apply as in an event hall; if you live in a thin-walled apartment and all your neighbours steam netflix over 40MHz 2.4GHz channels set to high power - you're going to have a terrible time. I wouldn't recommend HM7000 for use in student dormitories, for example. As long as you live somewhere relatively low-density, you should have zero problems.

A good way to test is to use a bluetooth keyboard, mouse and headset on your PC. If after a month, you've not run into any issues of missed or repeated keys; interference with your audio etc - then you will have a flawless time on radio-controlled model trains.
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