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Offline AnalogJim  
#1 Posted : 29 October 2025 21:16:29(UTC)
AnalogJim

United States   
Joined: 24/12/2020(UTC)
Posts: 2
Location: Lakewood, OH
I am in the early stages of designing my first advanced Marklin analog layout with automated signals and switches.

Is there an engineering limit on the # of solenoid devices I can switch from a single pulsing circuit from a contact (momentary) like a 5146?

I see from basic Marklin or other diagrams a single device or, infrequently, 2 devices in a 7072 manual control - but never more.

My engineering knowledge is very dusty, but I think devices like solenoids are coils and are subject to "inrush" current (short interval, but very large) like starting a motor.

Is there a similar problem with Marklin Analog (with numerous interlinked solenoids)?

If so, is there protection built into the older items or is there a simple home-made protection scheme?

Thank you for any background, views or advice.

Jim



















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Offline hxmiesa  
#2 Posted : 30 October 2025 07:48:27(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,630
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: AnalogJim Go to Quoted Post
I am in the early stages of designing my first advanced Marklin analog layout with automated signals and switches.
Is there an engineering limit on the # of solenoid devices I can switch from a single pulsing circuit from a contact (momentary) like a 5146?
I see from basic Marklin or other diagrams a single device or, infrequently, 2 devices in a 7072 manual control - but never more.
My engineering knowledge is very dusty, but I think devices like solenoids are coils and are subject to "inrush" current (short interval, but very large) like starting a motor.
Is there a similar problem with Marklin Analog (with numerous interlinked solenoids)?
If so, is there protection built into the older items or is there a simple home-made protection scheme?

Thank you for any background, views or advice.


I seem to remember having read that 3 is the recommended max. -Or was it that they approximatly use 3VA each?
In any event, when you use contact-tracks like the 5146, there can be some burning on the contack-pads. (which must then be cleaned, and they are good again...)

I switch 3 coils with my 5146-type tracks for a long time, and everything is working fine for years.
I use a separate 100VA transformer (of the TITAN brand) for this control, and I havent bothered with the inrush current. (-which is certainly there, but the old trafos can handle it easily)
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline analogmike  
#3 Posted : 30 October 2025 12:46:46(UTC)
analogmike

United States   
Joined: 02/08/2014(UTC)
Posts: 807
Location: NEW JERSEY, USA
Two is the most I ever did but I think you'll be ok with three as long as you're using a big traffo like Hxmiesa said.
If you are going to use 5146 it is going to give only one pulse of opposite potential to the coil that you are trying to energize. The 5105 contact track however, will pulse twice every time an axle passes over the section giving you a minimum of four pulses per wagon, Lok etc. If you are going full analog this is the way to go as far as reliability is concerned.
The only use I have for the 5146 is in a tunnel if I need a 1/2 section after the guts are removed. They also can be used as a shim under the short leg of a wobbly patio table that the FD has been annoying you to fix for the last six months.
If you go with the 5146 I would advise investing in some additional ambulances and maybe a medivac helicopter for your Preiserlings. Let's play it safe and enlarge the ER department of the local hospital too.
Mikey



I love the smell of smoke fluid in the morning .
Offline hxmiesa  
#4 Posted : 30 October 2025 13:26:20(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,630
Location: Spain
Ha! I get what Mikey is saying; The 5146 tracks are notoriously flimsy and unrealiable!
I atually dont use any of the M-track contact-tracks, but rather the K-track equivalent. (That´s why I said "like 5146").
Once installed and working, they are quite dependable, just DONT touch them with with your fingers or anything else that is not a sprung slider!!!

I was atually decided on to NOT use these tracks, but with time I found that they took well to repairs and being left alone.
I now fully rely on them for branchline control (3 pieces), and 2 other pieces on my main-line, whose job it is to count sliders in order to distinguish between freight and passenger trains. (these 2 last pieces go to a PLC digital input, and draws practically no power)
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline AnalogJim  
#5 Posted : 30 October 2025 19:49:45(UTC)
AnalogJim

United States   
Joined: 24/12/2020(UTC)
Posts: 2
Location: Lakewood, OH
Thank you, Henrik and Mike. Very good advice - especially on the Transformer-related topic. I suspect modern devices have better and safer protection and not subject to 50ish years of aging of my early 1970's items.


Interestingly, I did find a single diagram and photo in a late 1950's Marklin manual that showed a signal, a distant signal and a turnout linked so I think your "not more than 3" is a safe upper limit it start. Henrik, I also had a hazy recollection of reading something 5 years ago of a "3" limit, but I can't find or recall the source. I will get my multi-meter out and also test a bit (and learn).

Will share any insights I find and appreciate yours.

Offline ccranium  
#6 Posted : 30 October 2025 20:20:41(UTC)
ccranium


Joined: 30/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 142
Location: Seattle area
Hi Jim,

I've set up my analog layout using the 7072 control boxes. For a few turnouts, I've got the turnout, two home signals and two advance signals all controlled by a single pair of 7072 red/green buttons with blocks ahead of them to control passage. I cleaned and tested each turnout and signal to be sure their solenoids slide easily, and their mechanical linkages, etc were working reliably, so they change predictably with a single push of the button. So far, so good. I'm keeping an eye on my grandkids when they operate them so I don't fry anything, and I've got quite a few 6001 trafos to not overload the L circuits on my 6627's while running.

I also was careful to only use 7072's which aren't fried/warped as they tend to be in the Used market.

Someday, I'll take the plunge on using circuit tracks; my wiring under the layout is enough of a (labeled) rats' nest as it is...

I hope this helps, from one M-track analog guy to another!

Brian
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Offline BenP  
#7 Posted : 31 October 2025 13:17:49(UTC)
BenP

United States   
Joined: 04/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 527
Location: USA
I replaced all circuit tracks with contact tracks, as they become unreliable over time. Dirt and such makes them sticky. Contact tracks similarly allow switch and signal activation, but are activated with each set of passing wheels ( vs slider only activation for circuit tracks). I've never combined more than 2 vintage solenoid devices. They too become sticky with time and internal cleaning is nontrivial.
(Btw, if you use bigger VA transformers than track and devices wiring should be thicker to handle greater amperage)
Ben
Digital M track layout with vintage rolling stock and accessories controlled by CS3+Rocrail; small Z scale layout.
https://youtube.com/play...0kgVYbh0CeDTF-bYXoD_2-V9
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#8 Posted : 31 October 2025 14:29:41(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,666
Location: Paris, France

Hi Jim
There is a maximum number of solenoids you can connect to a slider-operated contact track. Märklin used to say TWO and I think three is a reasonable limit. Driving a large number of solenoids simultaneously usually slows down the train because the magnetic power delivered by the trafo is 30VA and dpread on the B (Bahn) and the L (Licht) outputs.
BUT the huge drawback is that these solenoids are tied forever (E.g.: signal 1 red with signal 2 green) which is annoying and problematic.

There is a simple solution to this
- install a diode (1A or more) in series with the yellow (16VAC) of the Märklin transformer anode facing the trafo.
- install another diode on each contact track (cathode towards the track)

In this way, solenoids become independent again without using a zillion contact tracks to make intelligent automatisms
The control boxes may be connected the usual way without any issue the O (ground) is sent to any solenoid when you press the button.
Little drawback: the power to drive each solenoid is reduced (half wave instead of full wave) so the switches and signals must be in good condition. On the other hand it reduces the risks of burning a solenoid.

A typical Märklin transformer delivers 16 VAC 1 A on the yellow accessory plug so using very common diodes like the 1N4004 (400V max reverse voltage) up to 1N4007 (1000 V reverse voltage) 1.50€ for 100 pieces on Aliexpress

Cheers
Jean

(former engineer in Electrotechnics and electronics who has forgotten loads of things: cannot do integral or derivative calculus anymore Flapper )

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