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Märklin SBB 43410 lighting - Lighting installation.
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Offline mvd71  
#1 Posted : 04 June 2025 08:00:22(UTC)
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mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,929
Location: Auckland,
Hi all,

I am looking at installing an ESU 50709 lighting kit into a Märklin 43410 steuerwagen. In doing this I would like to use the existing Märklin led lighting circuit for the headlights etc. has anyone done this and can they confirm wiring for this?

Cheers…..

Mike
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Offline marklinist5999  
#2 Posted : 04 June 2025 12:48:40(UTC)
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marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,939
Location: Michigan, Troy
I haven't used the ESU, but I have wired Marklin LEDs in the silberlinge cab control car. My guess is that they are similar. You just splice in a wire between the existing LED board feed and the new coach lightning strip. Then connect the other or rear terminal wire to the existing rear coach terminal or where the rear marker light connects.
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Offline mvd71  
#3 Posted : 04 June 2025 13:22:06(UTC)
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mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,929
Location: Auckland,
Just to clarify, the ESU 50709 is a lighting kit with decoder built in that can control headlights and tail lights.
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Offline marklinist5999  
#4 Posted : 04 June 2025 15:04:52(UTC)
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marklinist5999

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Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
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Location: Michigan, Troy
Oh, that may change things up. The existing Markllin led board has different resistors.
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Offline mvd71  
#5 Posted : 05 June 2025 21:13:37(UTC)
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mvd71

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Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,929
Location: Auckland,
I had hoped to be able to patch the headlight output to the axle switch connection on the Märklin board.
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Offline marklinist5999  
#6 Posted : 05 June 2025 22:46:58(UTC)
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marklinist5999

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Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
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Location: Michigan, Troy
That I don't know because it's an analog switch.
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Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#7 Posted : 05 June 2025 22:52:42(UTC)
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5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,984
Location: CA, USA
Hi there,

I'm assuming you want to digitally control the head/tail lights by doing so?

I believe the best process here would be sending the track power directly to the ESU board, bypassing the Marklin board. Then, you can use the "Aux" output from the ESU board to feed the Marklin board in return.

All the solution above does is A- reroute track power, and B- Adds digital control (on/off) of that "raw" track power then being fed to the marklin board.

What is not accounted for here is any mechanical device controlling direction, which I don't have a coach handy to check.

SBB Era 2-5
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Offline mvd71  
#8 Posted : 05 June 2025 23:07:35(UTC)
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mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,929
Location: Auckland,
Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR Go to Quoted Post
Hi there,

I'm assuming you want to digitally control the head/tail lights by doing so?

I believe the best process here would be sending the track power directly to the ESU board, bypassing the Marklin board. Then, you can use the "Aux" output from the ESU board to feed the Marklin board in return.

All the solution above does is A- reroute track power, and B- Adds digital control (on/off) of that "raw" track power then being fed to the marklin board.

What is not accounted for here is any mechanical device controlling direction, which I don't have a coach handy to check.



That does sound like what I have in mind. In the Märklin unit there is a switch mounted on the leading bogie axle that moves with direction of travel and supplies earthing between the rails and either the headlamp leds or the taillamp led. I was hoping to use the lighting board decoder output into the solder points where the two wires from the switch attach.
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Offline marklinist5999  
#9 Posted : 06 June 2025 11:46:40(UTC)
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marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,939
Location: Michigan, Troy
Be careful trying to do that. If the axle switch shorts the decoder it's toast. I say this because the decoder has reversing of the head and tail lights. I don't know what would happen if it is set for one direction and you reversed the train before the lights.
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Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#10 Posted : 06 June 2025 18:36:35(UTC)
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5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,984
Location: CA, USA
Originally Posted by: mvd71 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR Go to Quoted Post
Hi there,

I'm assuming you want to digitally control the head/tail lights by doing so?

I believe the best process here would be sending the track power directly to the ESU board, bypassing the Marklin board. Then, you can use the "Aux" output from the ESU board to feed the Marklin board in return.

All the solution above does is A- reroute track power, and B- Adds digital control (on/off) of that "raw" track power then being fed to the marklin board.

What is not accounted for here is any mechanical device controlling direction, which I don't have a coach handy to check.



That does sound like what I have in mind. In the Märklin unit there is a switch mounted on the leading bogie axle that moves with direction of travel and supplies earthing between the rails and either the headlamp leds or the taillamp led. I was hoping to use the lighting board decoder output into the solder points where the two wires from the switch attach.


Agreed this is a good plan in theory. I actually have the same coach and was going to do something similar, but hadn't gotten around to it yet. I did not open the coach, but I just looked underneath it. it appears as if the + and - come from the bogie with pickup shoe. The reverse lighting mechanism is on the other bogie.

Assuming the + and - go to the internal board before any connections onward to the lighting controls on the second bogie, you should be more than fine to just feed those lighting controls via the aux output on the ESU strip, which I can verify is the raw track current without buffer or filter.

SBB Era 2-5
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Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#11 Posted : 06 June 2025 18:39:17(UTC)
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5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,984
Location: CA, USA
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
Be careful trying to do that. If the axle switch shorts the decoder it's toast. I say this because the decoder has reversing of the head and tail lights. I don't know what would happen if it is set for one direction and you reversed the train before the lights.



The car does not have a factory decoder. Control circuit board yes, but digital decoder no

If you are referring to the ESU board + Decoder 50709, you do not need to use its own reverse lighting functions for this application. Just the Aux1 output to feed the existing Marklin board and you are done with no extra steps or wiring
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Offline mvd71  
#12 Posted : 06 June 2025 20:45:52(UTC)
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mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,929
Location: Auckland,
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
Be careful trying to do that. If the axle switch shorts the decoder it's toast. I say this because the decoder has reversing of the head and tail lights. I don't know what would happen if it is set for one direction and you reversed the train before the lights.


The plan is to remove the axle switch and patch into the Märklin board where the switch normally controls current flow.
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Offline mvd71  
#13 Posted : 06 June 2025 20:50:45(UTC)
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mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,929
Location: Auckland,
Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: mvd71 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR Go to Quoted Post
Hi there,

I'm assuming you want to digitally control the head/tail lights by doing so?

I believe the best process here would be sending the track power directly to the ESU board, bypassing the Marklin board. Then, you can use the "Aux" output from the ESU board to feed the Marklin board in return.

All the solution above does is A- reroute track power, and B- Adds digital control (on/off) of that "raw" track power then being fed to the marklin board.

What is not accounted for here is any mechanical device controlling direction, which I don't have a coach handy to check.



That does sound like what I have in mind. In the Märklin unit there is a switch mounted on the leading bogie axle that moves with direction of travel and supplies earthing between the rails and either the headlamp leds or the taillamp led. I was hoping to use the lighting board decoder output into the solder points where the two wires from the switch attach.


Agreed this is a good plan in theory. I actually have the same coach and was going to do something similar, but hadn't gotten around to it yet. I did not open the coach, but I just looked underneath it. it appears as if the + and - come from the bogie with pickup shoe. The reverse lighting mechanism is on the other bogie.

Assuming the + and - go to the internal board before any connections onward to the lighting controls on the second bogie, you should be more than fine to just feed those lighting controls via the aux output on the ESU strip, which I can verify is the raw track current without buffer or filter.



You are correct, the power from the rear bogie feeds directly to the Märklin circuit board that powers the lights. The switch on the front bogie then controls which leds the current flows through as a result of rotational movement of the axle and switch (quite clever in itself). However this mean lights don’t change over until the coach moves, and I would like to sync them with the loco change of direction.
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Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#14 Posted : 07 June 2025 00:10:10(UTC)
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5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,984
Location: CA, USA
Ah, in that case the options I see are:

1- Use a programmable accessory decoder instead of the interior lighting kit with decoder
2- Use the ESU decoder's own built in cab control car functionality. This is a good option, but I have no idea how to incorporate its software with your existing hardware, or whether better to bypass marklin's own board
3- I'm not sure if this is possible, but perhaps this can all be resolved via programming the ESU light decoder somehow?
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Offline mvd71  
#15 Posted : 07 June 2025 01:19:24(UTC)
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mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,929
Location: Auckland,
Originally Posted by: 5HorizonsRR Go to Quoted Post
Ah, in that case the options I see are:

1- Use a programmable accessory decoder instead of the interior lighting kit with decoder
2- Use the ESU decoder's own built in cab control car functionality. This is a good option, but I have no idea how to incorporate its software with your existing hardware, or whether better to bypass marklin's own board
3- I'm not sure if this is possible, but perhaps this can all be resolved via programming the ESU light decoder somehow?


Yes, I need to look into how programmable the lighting decoder is. I already have the lighting, so I’m hoping to be able to use it, and at least the lighting part of Märklin’s board. I may need to modify Märklin’s board, but we will see.
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