 Joined: 23/01/2013(UTC) Posts: 161 Location: New York
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Hello. When installing the new motor, the Märklin instructions show to add the soldering tab to the motor shield and attach the ground wire to it. Now on the loc I’m converting, the wheels on that bogi with the motor all have tractions tires. Won’t that prevent that bogi/motor from being grounded? Should I attach the ground to something else, like the frame? Or connect ground in two places? Or is it fine on that motor/bogi? Thanks. Model in question is the 3165  Marklin 3165.pdf (120kb) downloaded 42 time(s). |
Marklin HO, CS3+, Train Controller 10 Gold, Any era. Like Swiss Locomotives. |
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 Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC) Posts: 1,155
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hi
On that type of locomotive, you will probably get poor ground if you only use the ground on the motor. so use a ground from the frame also, as more ground points are better.
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 2 users liked this useful post by bph
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 Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 3,555 Location: Paris, France
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Hi Norbert
On the very common Märklin locos with 2 bogies like you seem to describe normally:
- the front bogie has a slider with a cable and the 0 is conducted by two metal supports from the bogie's frame rubbing against the loco frame.
- the rear bogie has a motor and 4 traction tyres and is not connected to the ground
- Märklin advice is to increase the number or ground returns: one is to do exactly what you mentioned (a soldering tab on the motor connected to the chassis).
- another one is to connect the metal chassis of the front bogie with the frame chassis using a thin and flexible wire.
When locos are brand new, all this is an overkill but with the years, corrosion and dirt it becomes very useful
Cheers
Jean |
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2 users liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
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Joined: 23/01/2013(UTC) Posts: 161 Location: New York
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Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB  Hi Norbert
On the very common Märklin locos with 2 bogies like you seem to describe normally:
- the front bogie has a slider with a cable and the 0 is conducted by two metal supports from the bogie's frame rubbing against the loco frame.
- the rear bogie has a motor and 4 traction tyres and is not connected to the ground
- Märklin advice is to increase the number or ground returns: one is to do exactly what you mentioned (a soldering tab on the motor connected to the chassis).
- another one is to connect the metal chassis of the front bogie with the frame chassis using a thin and flexible wire.
When locos are brand new, all this is an overkill but with the years, corrosion and dirt it becomes very useful
Cheers
Jean Thanks Jean! Just confirms that I won't blow anything up. The great thing about this hobby is how many things you learn about. Electrical was never a strong subject for me. BTW, I spent a few weeks in Paris over the past months, one week before Christmas and another a few weeks ago. My son is temporally living there to play some hockey. Made my visits to AU Pullman both times, love that store and the City, just beautiful. |
Marklin HO, CS3+, Train Controller 10 Gold, Any era. Like Swiss Locomotives. |
2 users liked this useful post by garben
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Joined: 23/01/2013(UTC) Posts: 161 Location: New York
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Originally Posted by: bph hi
On that type of locomotive, you will probably get poor ground if you only use the ground on the motor. so use a ground from the frame also, as more ground points are better. Thanks for the answer. When I add the additional ground would I splice a wire together with the one from the decoder or do you add an additional wire to the decoder then to the frame? Thanks again! |
Marklin HO, CS3+, Train Controller 10 Gold, Any era. Like Swiss Locomotives. |
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Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC) Posts: 1,155
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Originally Posted by: garben Originally Posted by: bph hi
On that type of locomotive, you will probably get poor ground if you only use the ground on the motor. so use a ground from the frame also, as more ground points are better. Thanks for the answer. When I add the additional ground would I splice a wire together with the one from the decoder or do you add an additional wire to the decoder then to the frame? Thanks again! Use what's easiest. Often, I have a common solder pad for ground wires eg like this: (ground solder pad attached to the screw that secures the pantograph/slider switch)  A brown wire goes from the decoder to the frame solder pad on the frame and then a separate wire goes from the solder to the solder pad on the motor shield. the locomotive above also has 4 traction tires on the motor bogie, but the ground connection from the unpowered bogie to the frame is good. But as JohnjeanB wrote a separate wire directly from the unpowered bogie might be a good idea.
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4 users liked this useful post by bph
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Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,801 Location: Crozet, Virginia
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A lot of very good advice from bph. I think most of us sort out the hot side of the circuit when there are current issues, but in the end I usually find that the problem is in the return, not in the supply. I routinely beef up the ground options every time I rewire a loco anymore, unless Marklin beat me to it. It almost always improves running and reliability.  |
Regards,
Jim
I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time. |
3 users liked this useful post by dickinsonj
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 Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,771 Location: New Zealand
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I have 2 Marklin BR 120 locos (3153 and 3353). Both had running issues and would stutter when running on a layout (this after a digital conversion in both cases).
For 3153 I added an extra ground wire to the chassis frame and wired that back to the ground tab on the motor body. That improved the loco running such that it ran without stuttering.
I would have expected that doing the same to 3353 would fix the stuttering given both locos are of the same design. Seems not so, as I had to add a grounding tab to the back of the front boggie and run that to the chassis grounding point. That fixed it and the loco now runs well.
I can only assume that 3153 had a better chassis grounding than what 3353 did.
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5 users liked this useful post by Bigdaddynz
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Joined: 08/12/2021(UTC) Posts: 141 Location: California, Sonoma County
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I have had similar problems in the grounding of the chassis to the tracks in the BR 120 locos. Hesitation of my locos happen also when grounding is not good. I have found also adding 3 oz weights also help. Heavy loks have better grounding connection.
What I have done is (some people may call this extreme, but it works for me). I have a brown wire, strip the wire about 1 inch. Twirl the copper wires together, put a very small amount of solder on the end to make sure all the thin copper wires stay together. Then I coil it around an axle in the boggie that has the shoe, about 3 coils and all the wire is coiled. Push the other end of the wire thru the hole where the shoe wire (red and usually black)goes up the chassis. Then I connect the brown wire to a screw that screws to the chassis and so it is grounded. This way you are assured your wheels are grounded.
I have noticed in the later models of the BR 120, Marklin has added a three prong spring that is screwed to the boggie screw and touches the bottom part of the chassis and the 3 prongs rub on the chassis. Some of the earlier models do not have this feature.
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