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K84 + CS2 + three aspect signal (Viessmann 4012)
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Offline einotuominen  
#1 Posted : 30 October 2024 07:32:09(UTC)
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einotuominen

Finland   
Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 459
Location: Kaarina
Hi guys,

I’m confused on how to setup three aspect signal with K84 and CS2.

The question really is that with green aspect, ports 1 and 4 are active. But with red aspect port 1 is active. So this leads to a situation that red light is always on except when I seitch to yellow aspect which I have in port 2 together with a diode going to port 4.

So when ever I turn on just green, red is also on.

I think I have yellow+green aspect correct…

What’s the deal here please?

-Eino
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Offline einotuominen  
#2 Posted : 30 October 2024 07:52:57(UTC)
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einotuominen

Finland   
Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 459
Location: Kaarina
Hmmh… in CS2 after the semaphores there are more light signals that offer threeway with:
Red: 1
Green: 2
(Empty 3)
Yellow: 4 (to green with a diode)

However when switching to red, it does not also switch to 3 (empty) leaving port 4 active also…

-Eino
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#3 Posted : 30 October 2024 11:10:50(UTC)
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JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,550
Location: Paris, France
Hi Eino
Yes the CS2 / CS3 take care of 3 position signals (lights and semaphores). It leave an unused output for a decoupler.
Yes with a light signal you need either a diode or an event to force the signal in the correct position. Using Rocrail or equivalent solves all issues by the Matrix approach (which light red, green, orange, white should be on in which position)
No, the CS2 / CS3 do not show the correct position for 3 position "Humping signals" for marshalling yards and there is no dedicated symbol on the CS

Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
marshalling yard
My Layout
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Offline einotuominen  
#4 Posted : 30 October 2024 11:43:57(UTC)
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einotuominen

Finland   
Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 459
Location: Kaarina
Hi Jean, thanks for the response.

However how should I handle the case when switching from yellow/green to green only or red only?

Yellow LED + diode to green LED is in port 4.

Red is in port 1 and green in port 2.

When I activate red or green, the port 3 needs to be active so that the yellow is off.

How can I do that in CS2?

Rocrail no problem, but I need this working with CS2 only.

-Eino
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#5 Posted : 30 October 2024 12:09:16(UTC)
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JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,550
Location: Paris, France
I need to verify but I think that a CS2 CS3 controls of a 3 way signal sets it to red before is sets it to green or orange/green. Similarly A three way turn-out controlled by a CS sets it first to straight and then to the appropriate position. On my CS3 it is done in 2 steps for sure but it has been a while since I used my CS2 on my layout (the programming track is dead)
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
marshalling yard
My Layout
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thanks 1 user liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline marklinist5999  
#6 Posted : 30 October 2024 12:37:22(UTC)
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marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,867
Location: Michigan, Troy
Jean, isn't the signal change sequence setting adjustable?
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Offline einotuominen  
#7 Posted : 30 October 2024 13:55:39(UTC)
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einotuominen

Finland   
Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 459
Location: Kaarina
I only spent about 30 minutes with this this morning, but did not notice that CS2 would first set both addresses to red. That would absolutely be the thing that would solve this though.

-Eino
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#8 Posted : 30 October 2024 16:15:32(UTC)
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JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,550
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
Jean, isn't the signal change sequence setting adjustable?

No, I don't think so with the existing software
Cheers
Jean

My layout videos
latest vid
marshalling yard
My Layout
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thanks 1 user liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline marklinist5999  
#9 Posted : 30 October 2024 16:32:52(UTC)
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marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,867
Location: Michigan, Troy
C3 3 either? I think I was able to select the position in the articles menu by clicking red or green/ etc. or semiphore psition
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#10 Posted : 30 October 2024 16:42:25(UTC)
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JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,550
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: einotuominen Go to Quoted Post
I only spent about 30 minutes with this this morning, but did not notice that CS2 would first set both addresses to red. That would absolutely be the thing that would solve this though.

-Eino

Eino I just checked with my CS2 and a 3 position signal:
- the passage from orange to green shows clearly a temporary "stop-over" into red position
- the passage from green to orange does not show this transition because old 7041 signales don't need it. Normally in the real trains this is not supposed to happen (I think)
- there seems no way a normal user of the CS2 can change this

Cheers
Jean


My layout videos
latest vid
marshalling yard
My Layout
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Offline einotuominen  
#11 Posted : 30 October 2024 19:29:58(UTC)
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einotuominen

Finland   
Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 459
Location: Kaarina
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post

Eino I just checked with my CS2 and a 3 position signal:
- the passage from orange to green shows clearly a temporary "stop-over" into red position





Hi,

I’m not sure I get the same Jean… please have a look at this video I made.

A side note: M84 works perfectly when the CVs are programmed acording to tutorial by Bo Jensen (model train fun on YouTube).

But K84 can’t have grouped addresses like the M84. Here’s the video:



-Eino

Edited by user 31 October 2024 13:44:01(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#12 Posted : 31 October 2024 14:21:45(UTC)
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JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,550
Location: Paris, France
Hi Eino
I checked with a CS2 on a 3-positions semaphore and as I said chances are Märklin took into consideration the specifics of a 7041 (old 3-position semaphore signal) on which the Orange core could push the core of other pair of coils to green but the green core could not force back the orange core back to rest.
I suppose (you have tested it I think) that for luminous 3-position signals there are no specifics of going to red first before going to orange-green or to green
I am not sure but isn't there a way by assigning the same address to your luminous signal and a 3-way turnout (to drive your K84 signal)?

Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
marshalling yard
My Layout
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Offline einotuominen  
#13 Posted : 31 October 2024 14:31:59(UTC)
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einotuominen

Finland   
Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 459
Location: Kaarina
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post

I am not sure but isn't there a way by assigning the same address to your luminous signal and a 3-way turnout (to drive your K84 signal)?

Cheers
Jean


Hi,

I will test this!

Thanks,
-Eino
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Offline einotuominen  
#14 Posted : 08 November 2024 12:35:44(UTC)
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einotuominen

Finland   
Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 459
Location: Kaarina
Decided to solve this by getting more M84s.

The K84s are still good for two aspects and other illumination purposes.

-Eino
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Offline PeFu  
#15 Posted : 08 November 2024 13:30:28(UTC)
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PeFu

Sweden   
Joined: 30/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,286
Originally Posted by: einotuominen Go to Quoted Post
Decided to solve this by getting more M84s.

The K84s are still good for two aspects and other illumination purposes.

For lightsignals, I can recommend the following decoder:

https://www.ldt-infocent...oku.php?id=en:ls-dec-8x2

An advantage is that it provides a very nice dimming in dimming out feature!

Andreasburg-Mattiasberg Bahn is inspired by Swiss railways |Forum Thread |Track Plan |Youtube Channel | C and K track | CS2 | TrainController Gold
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thanks 1 user liked this useful post by PeFu
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