 Joined: 17/08/2024(UTC) Posts: 10 Location: Texas, Irving
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 Hello, I suddenly ran into a problem with my CS3 suddenly shutting of with a 60195 Power Pack & 60175 Booster . I have two Power Packs and two Boosters, one for the top level the other for bottom level. This has been working for a year. I am running 5 TGV's an ICE 4 and Giruno and couple oter shuttles. I have them scheduled so normaly 3 - 4 runing at the same time. When all trains are running the draw is about 3-4 amps max on the GPF-1 temps are good. Last night ran two trains and suddenly I got the GPF-1 "overload error. Never had this issue. These are 5 amp boosters, the upper level works fine. I swapped the cables from the Upper to the Lower thinking it may be a power pack/booster issue but same thing, no change. I have isolated trains checked everything, running one train at a time no problem, the minute iI start a second train after a minute or so it faults out and the amperage is only at 2.89 amps All booster are isolated from each other. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I am running the latest update 2.5.2(6). Thanks, Mark
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 Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 3,555 Location: Paris, France
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Hi Mark
French Märklin HO user here with a CS3 and a 100 W Märklin power pack. My layout, with 26 MFX Sound locos needs 4.1 A (lots of illuminated cars)
Here are a few points:
- does the CS3 show any current when NOT connected to the track? If yes, the unit is faulty and must be returned for repair.
- when power the faulty section with another source (CS3 / Booster 1 / Booster 2) Is the same current level reported? If Yes you have a short on the section in question
Note: some short may have a limited current because of weak wiring / long rails
Cheers
Jean |
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 1 user liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
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Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,273
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How did you get 21.6 volts!? |
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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1 user liked this useful post by Goofy
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Joined: 17/08/2024(UTC) Posts: 10 Location: Texas, Irving
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 Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB  Hi Mark
French Märklin HO user here with a CS3 and a 100 W Märklin power pack. My layout, with 26 MFX Sound locos needs 4.1 A (lots of illuminated cars)
Here are a few points:
- does the CS3 show any current when NOT connected to the track? If yes, the unit is faulty and must be returned for repair.
- when power the faulty section with another source (CS3 / Booster 1 / Booster 2) Is the same current level reported? If Yes you have a short on the section in question
Note: some short may have a limited current because of weak wiring / long rails
Cheers
Jean Hello Jean, Thank you I really appreciate your responses: 1) The GFP-1 does not show any amps if I disconnect the track power 2) On your second question if i am reading correctly, when I took the top section which works perfectly and used its power pack and booster I did get the same amperage and same problem. 3) I checked this morning getting 19V to the whole bottom section track however one of the runs the power coming off the main bus going around the whole layout was not getting a good connectiion. I checked every feeder point as there are 4 main lines with 5 long runs as seen in the picture. All were good except the one. I fixed that but no difference. I think the "overload message is more what you pointed out a possible short as i was putting a small loco while the layout was idle and did not get it on properly and it shorted of course and got the same overload message. I think its misleading as " Overload" which I would interpret as exceeding the amperage. One thing I did notice yesterday was at one point while two trains were running and the amperage meter on the GFP-1 went to max for a second and was yellow and orange. I do have 12awg wiring for the Bus and 18awg for the feeder tracks. I have five long runs as seen in the picture. Thanks, Mark.
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Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 3,555 Location: Paris, France
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Hi Mark
From what you describe I think:
- your power units (CS3, Boosters) are working OK.
- you must remove all trains from the "zone with problems"
- as for many of us, your wiring is likely not perfect but appropriate (it almost never is).
- make sure that you have no more current consumed in the zone (now that all locos and cars have been removed.
- one method to locate where the short is located is far away, the locos receive some energy while close to the short, it is totally dark.
- check all the locos removed from the zone for proper current consumption as, sadly, sometimes you may have resulting (or cascading) destructions. It happened to me.
- a modern loco MUST consume NO CURRENT (less than 1 mA) when on the track with the motor stopped. Modern lights and sound don not consume any detectable current (under 1 mA). A modern loco consumes only approx 100mA at full speedf and a "Coffee Grinder" (the old HDLA C90) needs 200 mA BUT these values may easidily be doubled with a faulty motor.
- inspect the smoke units especially the dynamic smoke (normally it consumes 200mA but it may go up to 1 A or even more
- inspect the Telex (normally 50 mA to 100 mA) depending on the type.
- remember often a faulty motor runs very quietly EXCEPT it draws a lot of current thus destroying sooner or later its decoder.
Sorry for this long list of things you know probably most of them but an early detection may spare you the destruction of a valued model and lots of money.
Cheers
Jean |
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Joined: 17/08/2024(UTC) Posts: 10 Location: Texas, Irving
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Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Hi Mark
From what you describe I think:
- your power units (CS3, Boosters) are working OK.
- you must remove all trains from the "zone with problems"
- as for many of us, your wiring is likely not perfect but appropriate (it almost never is).
- make sure that you have no more current consumed in the zone (now that all locos and cars have been removed.
- one method to locate where the short is located is far away, the locos receive some energy while close to the short, it is totally dark.
- check all the locos removed from the zone for proper current consumption as, sadly, sometimes you may have resulting (or cascading) destructions. It happened to me.
- a modern loco MUST consume NO CURRENT (less than 1 mA) when on the track with the motor stopped. Modern lights and sound don not consume any detectable current (under 1 mA). A modern loco consumes only approx 100mA at full speedf and a "Coffee Grinder" (the old HDLA C90) needs 200 mA BUT these values may easidily be doubled with a faulty motor.
- inspect the smoke units especially the dynamic smoke (normally it consumes 200mA but it may go up to 1 A or even more
- inspect the Telex (normally 50 mA to 100 mA) depending on the type.
- remember often a faulty motor runs very quietly EXCEPT it draws a lot of current thus destroying sooner or later its decoder.
Sorry for this long list of things you know probably most of them but an early detection may spare you the destruction of a valued model and lots of money.
Cheers
Jean Jean, Thank you, I love all the info and you taking the time. I will work on those. I went to every distribution point of the Bus wire where the feeders go to the track and disconected each one and then had my Wlan mobile station started the trains after disconnecting but made no difference after 30 secs they stopped. I then decided to take the two wires from the Booster with clips and connect direct to the track. Ran the same two trains that a few minutes ago were stopping every 30 secs. For the first time they ran flawlessly. I checked the furtherst distance as the layout is large 19 x 15 and the the voltage was at about 15V where before 19V, makes sense as it has to carry a long way. I then ran a third train that caused an overload but not sure if it's due to insufficient power. The interesting thing is when I powered the track directly off the rail the Amperage dropped to 1.99 which was almost 1/2 an amp...very interesting.
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Joined: 17/08/2024(UTC) Posts: 10 Location: Texas, Irving
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Originally Posted by: Goofy How did you get 21.6 volts!? It seems standard, there are no adjustments that you can make. If you measure with a AC Volt meter to the Track what is the Voltage output? I am getting around 19.5 V Thanks. Edited by moderator 19 August 2024 06:57:31(UTC)
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Joined: 17/08/2024(UTC) Posts: 10 Location: Texas, Irving
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Hello Jean, Well after many many hours of trouble shooting here is where I stand. I suspected somewhere there was an overload, what throgh me off was using the Upper booster to the lower track which is the problem. i checked connection, the track and some very intensive troubleshooting. I even tried a bunch of different engines but no go. Finally I decided to eliminate all the boosters and try with just the CS3. At one point I had two TGV's 10 piece and 4 additional engines running flawlessly for 15-20 minutes. The output current to the track was measuring 16.5 V whereas the same measuremeny on the Boosters to the track was 19.5V. If you measure yout track power what voltage do you get? If you have the 100 watt Booster what output power do you get? In one of the posts the gentleman asked why is the voltage 21.7 V Thanks, Mark. Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Hi Mark
From what you describe I think:
- your power units (CS3, Boosters) are working OK.
- you must remove all trains from the "zone with problems"
- as for many of us, your wiring is likely not perfect but appropriate (it almost never is).
- make sure that you have no more current consumed in the zone (now that all locos and cars have been removed.
- one method to locate where the short is located is far away, the locos receive some energy while close to the short, it is totally dark.
- check all the locos removed from the zone for proper current consumption as, sadly, sometimes you may have resulting (or cascading) destructions. It happened to me.
- a modern loco MUST consume NO CURRENT (less than 1 mA) when on the track with the motor stopped. Modern lights and sound don not consume any detectable current (under 1 mA). A modern loco consumes only approx 100mA at full speedf and a "Coffee Grinder" (the old HDLA C90) needs 200 mA BUT these values may easidily be doubled with a faulty motor.
- inspect the smoke units especially the dynamic smoke (normally it consumes 200mA but it may go up to 1 A or even more
- inspect the Telex (normally 50 mA to 100 mA) depending on the type.
- remember often a faulty motor runs very quietly EXCEPT it draws a lot of current thus destroying sooner or later its decoder.
Sorry for this long list of things you know probably most of them but an early detection may spare you the destruction of a valued model and lots of money.
Cheers
Jean Originally Posted by: punksie12 Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Hi Mark
From what you describe I think:
- your power units (CS3, Boosters) are working OK.
- you must remove all trains from the "zone with problems"
- as for many of us, your wiring is likely not perfect but appropriate (it almost never is).
- make sure that you have no more current consumed in the zone (now that all locos and cars have been removed.
- one method to locate where the short is located is far away, the locos receive some energy while close to the short, it is totally dark.
- check all the locos removed from the zone for proper current consumption as, sadly, sometimes you may have resulting (or cascading) destructions. It happened to me.
- a modern loco MUST consume NO CURRENT (less than 1 mA) when on the track with the motor stopped. Modern lights and sound don not consume any detectable current (under 1 mA). A modern loco consumes only approx 100mA at full speedf and a "Coffee Grinder" (the old HDLA C90) needs 200 mA BUT these values may easidily be doubled with a faulty motor.
- inspect the smoke units especially the dynamic smoke (normally it consumes 200mA but it may go up to 1 A or even more
- inspect the Telex (normally 50 mA to 100 mA) depending on the type.
- remember often a faulty motor runs very quietly EXCEPT it draws a lot of current thus destroying sooner or later its decoder.
Sorry for this long list of things you know probably most of them but an early detection may spare you the destruction of a valued model and lots of money.
Cheers
Jean Jean, Thank you, I love all the info and you taking the time. I will work on those. I went to every distribution point of the Bus wire where the feeders go to the track and disconected each one and then had my Wlan mobile station started the trains after disconnecting but made no difference after 30 secs they stopped. I then decided to take the two wires from the Booster with clips and connect direct to the track. Ran the same two trains that a few minutes ago were stopping every 30 secs. For the first time they ran flawlessly. I checked the furtherst distance as the layout is large 19 x 15 and the the voltage was at about 15V where before 19V, makes sense as it has to carry a long way. I then ran a third train that caused an overload but not sure if it's due to insufficient power. The interesting thing is when I powered the track directly off the rail the Amperage dropped to 1.99 which was almost 1/2 an amp...very interesting.
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Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 3,555 Location: Paris, France
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Hi Mark
Track voltage
Using recent power switching units I always have a reading of 19.4 (100VA PSU) to 19.6 (40VA PSU). Readings provided by a CS3 (60226) I have the same readings with my CS2 (60215)
I don't have a TGV but an older VT11.5 Märklin with 2 coffee grinder motors (highpower, five pole motors) and the voltage is not affected.
With 26 locos all permanently powered (because of Rocrail, I don't have any insulated sections, the total current is 3.7A going up to 3.9A when the layout is in full operation.
60195 and your 22 V on the layout
As of today, the 60195 is supposed to deliver 19.4VDC (Märklin descrition). The sticket on the unit says it delivers 22 VDC.
I suspect (no sure here) that Märklin has adapted its PSU to the voltage needed so:
- the recent 60 VA PSU have a switch to deliver 19 VDC (HO) and 15 VDC (M). This is a fact.
- the higher scales need higher voltage (21 VDC on LGB) so the 60195 being not for HO the output voltage may have been changed over the years
- the Euopean 100VA unit 60101 has been around for 10 years, is officially not for HO gauge, rather for 1 gauge but delivers 19VDC. I use it since 2011 and its working very fine.
Are these marketing hesitations? I don't know
Cheers
Jean |
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Joined: 17/08/2024(UTC) Posts: 10 Location: Texas, Irving
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The bottom section right now running all the TGV's on the CS3 only is working perfectly no problems - 17V to the track. The CS3 is a max 3amp and with the TGV's you see in the original picture, plus about 7 other engines idle the 4 trains are running perfectly. On the 5 amp booster it would overload at two or three trains. I believe that the update recently to the Booster could be a problem. The document highlights the "overload" message that they put in update 2.5. It appears to me, as I get the same behavior that the firmware has somehow restricted the amperage instead of the 5 amp it should get, its not really gettting and it happens with both Boosters. When I run with the CS3 and just go over the 3 amp it overloads which is the correct behavior. In fact you see the the gauge go from green to yellow to orange and if it goes over the 3 amp it cuts off with "overload" which I would expect. If i switch to a booster on that same track same engines that has 5 amp it will overload which tells me the booster thinks it has sufficient Amps but it really does not. I would like to downgrade the firmware to an earlier version on the Booster to see what happens. Any easy way to do that ? Thanks, Mark Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Hi Mark
Track voltage
Using recent power switching units I always have a reading of 19.4 (100VA PSU) to 19.6 (40VA PSU). Readings provided by a CS3 (60226) I have the same readings with my CS2 (60215)
I don't have a TGV but an older VT11.5 Märklin with 2 coffee grinder motors (highpower, five pole motors) and the voltage is not affected.
With 26 locos all permanently powered (because of Rocrail, I don't have any insulated sections, the total current is 3.7A going up to 3.9A when the layout is in full operation.
60195 and your 22 V on the layout
As of today, the 60195 is supposed to deliver 19.4VDC (Märklin descrition). The sticket on the unit says it delivers 22 VDC.
I suspect (no sure here) that Märklin has adapted its PSU to the voltage needed so:
- the recent 60 VA PSU have a switch to deliver 19 VDC (HO) and 15 VDC (M). This is a fact.
- the higher scales need higher voltage (21 VDC on LGB) so the 60195 being not for HO the output voltage may have been changed over the years
- the Euopean 100VA unit 60101 has been around for 10 years, is officially not for HO gauge, rather for 1 gauge but delivers 19VDC. I use it since 2011 and its working very fine.
Are these marketing hesitations? I don't know
Cheers
Jean
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Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 3,555 Location: Paris, France
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Hi Mark A point I forgot to mention is that during an update, the settings may be affected. One of them, important in this case is the definition of the PSU type (3A or 5 A) Here is what I mean on my CS3  The 17 V reading on your CS3 is trange to me. Is it the reading provided by the CS3 or another method? I found that with the Märklin PSUs I have the voltage is comprized between 19.4V to 19.6V. Are the mains voltage correct? Cheers Jean |
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Joined: 17/08/2024(UTC) Posts: 10 Location: Texas, Irving
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Jean,
I believe my suspicion has come true,it looks like the latest firmware for the 60175 Boosters are the problem thats why both dont work.
I just downgraded from Version 2.5.2 (6) to cs3update_v2.41.0 and together with that update there were Booster updates as well.
I disconnected the CS3 track power and connected the Lower booster to the track, ran the exact 4 TGV's that I had run previously with direct track power of the CS3.
The amperage of the CS3 was just below 3 amps and ran perfectly, with the booster the same scenario,it wolud have overloaded.
See the picture attached showing 2.77amp (CS3)
The 17 V reading on your CS3 is trange to me. Is it the reading provided by the CS3 or another method?
I found that with the Märklin PSUs I have the voltage is comprized between 19.4V to 19.6V. Are the mains voltage correct?
Cheers
Jean
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Joined: 17/08/2024(UTC) Posts: 10 Location: Texas, Irving
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Joined: 17/08/2024(UTC) Posts: 10 Location: Texas, Irving
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Hi Jean,
I now ran the same 4 TGV's with the Booster connected and the downgraded Ver 3.85 of the booster and for the first time it never overloaded, infact if you look the picture above showing GFP-1 Lower it now is able to draw 3.44 amps with the same amount of trains running.
The reason this happened is now the Booster went over 3 amps whereas before with the same 4 trains it only got to 2.89 and was being throttled.
This is what I said before the Booster thinks it has 5 amps however there is a firmware bug that is not letting it go above 3 amps even though no indication with yellow, orange or red warnings like the CS3 shows.
So,currently the CS3 is running with the Ver 2.5.2(6) but the boosters are running the previous version 3.85 as you don't have to always update them, they are independent from the main update.
The red dots are on the Booster indicating an update to 3.88 which I believe is the problematic firmware and proven consistently with my testing.
Now that I know where the issue is I am going to update the booster back to Ver 3.88 and see if the overload error re-occurs. If it does then the Booster firmware has a bug and it makes sense as both boosters have the same issue.
I just updated from Version 3.85 seen in the above photo to Ver 3.88 and Voila!!! the overload appeared just like before with the same trains so everything is consistent. I will contact Marklin, they will need to fix the throttling in the booster Ver 3.88 part of ver 2.5.2(6)
I went and reverted the Boosters to the previous 3.85 and am running back to normal. Once Marklin figures it out I will update in the next version however right now it's working beautifully.
Thanks once again for all your help, you have been amazing!!
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1 user liked this useful post by punksie12
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Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC) Posts: 3,882 Location: Michigan, Troy
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Joined: 17/08/2024(UTC) Posts: 10 Location: Texas, Irving
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Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 You have lots of trains. Yes, and love everyone of them. it upsets me when things dont work 
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1 user liked this useful post by punksie12
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