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Offline Brian_BR96  
#1 Posted : 20 July 2024 05:08:03(UTC)
Brian_BR96

United States   
Joined: 22/05/2020(UTC)
Posts: 32
Location: West Hartford, CT
Hi all, I'm getting my layout going. I have four curved turnouts to allow for two stations and most of them cause the locos to stop when passing over. I cannot run the train too slowly or else it will short and cut power to the track. Sometimes the loco just loses connection and resumes going forward with a small push. Sometimes it will spark at the pickup shoe. Sometimes the loco stops even when moving at a normal speed.

I am using the 5140 M track curved turnouts, the newer ones with plastic guide rails. They are in good condition with no rust or even discoloration. I've tried running my 3000 over the turnout slowly and watching and it seems to stop at different places each time. It's very frustrating because it's hard to notice a pattern.

The pickup shoe is correctly fastened and the loco is not dirty. This loco has low hours so I don't think the gauge has deviated too much, but I haven't checked. It has a 60760 decoder with permanent magnet 5 pole rotor and is set to run at a pretty low speed. This issue happens with other locos but I'm using the 3000 as a base line.

I didn't have this issue with C track curved turnouts and I'd like to figure out how to tweak the M track turnouts to get them to work. Where should I start?
Offline 60904  
#2 Posted : 20 July 2024 12:31:09(UTC)
60904

Germany   
Joined: 27/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 324
Is the 3000 the only loco that stops? Maybe it has nothing to do with the pickup shoe. When it stops try to connect the puffers with a cable from ground. It might start running.
Best regards
Martin
Offline dlwestphalen  
#3 Posted : 20 July 2024 14:15:59(UTC)
dlwestphalen

Canada   
Joined: 07/02/2023(UTC)
Posts: 34
Location: BC
Sorry not much help but …

- I also run M curved turn outs with old and locos. I had derailing problems with new locos which I managed to fix.
- Question: the contact loss / short … does it happen in all directions?
Offline Brian_BR96  
#4 Posted : 20 July 2024 15:34:25(UTC)
Brian_BR96

United States   
Joined: 22/05/2020(UTC)
Posts: 32
Location: West Hartford, CT
I have three locos on the layout: br86, br74, and br89. The br74 rarely has an issue. The br86 will fairly often cause a spark and an associated high pitch noise that happens when the track is shorted. This happens regardless which direction it is entering the turnout, but more often happens when entering the end of the turnout closest to the lantern. Both the br86 and br74 are digital converted and have 60982 decoders with permanent magnet motors.

The 3000 usually won't spark but very regularly will just stop in the middle of the turnout. If I gently push it to one side to help its outside set of wheels contact the track for a better electrical connection it will run fine. I've tried widening the gauge but that causes the loco to derail. Sometimes though it seems to trip something in the decoder which makes the loco stop and won't run again unless I shut off power to the track.

The 3000 didn't do this to this degree before I converted it to digital. It used to be Delta and ran mostly fine over the turnouts. I'm wondering if part of the problem is the 60760 decoder. I've read about an alzeimers capacitor (?) which may help here. I'm not sure.

But now that the locos all have permanent magnets, I am running them at a much lower speed so that may be part of what's happening.

But back to the br86, it does spark on the turnouts quite often, which leads me to believe the turnouts are the problem. The rest of the track is fine, no issues there. I have tried experimenting with the gauge on the br86, but the design of its center drive wheels may be part of the issue.

I cleaned the turnout rails, first with isopropyl alcohol, then a rubber eraser, then again with alcohol. It didn't seem to help
Offline 60904  
#5 Posted : 20 July 2024 18:21:18(UTC)
60904

Germany   
Joined: 27/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 324
Please keep in mind that metal tracks are often worn out or just bended very little. The stuts in the turnout are also sometimes bended, if too low then the pickup shoe causes a short circuit. You should not bend any rails. What also sometimes occurs is a short circuit between pickup shoe and chassis. If using very old locos like FM 800 with the wider wheels these cause short circuits because they touch the stuts which are close to the rails. You might bend them a little away from the rail. The suspension of the pickup shoe must not be too hard. If it lifts the loco because of the higher stuts then you loose ground and the engine stops...

I'd like to come and solve the problem but there is too much water between us.

Why not show a photo of them he turnout and the engine?
Best regards
Martin
Offline JohnjeanB  
#6 Posted : 20 July 2024 20:22:59(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,551
Location: Paris, France
Hi Brian
I have used a lot M Tracks and they are excellent provided in good condition (metal ballast not bent, joiners "refurbished")
Here are a few things to consider
- shorts are not caused by the slider but rather by wheels touching the "long" studs nearby. This can be caused by (a) improper spacing between wheel (13.9 mm) or by "weak" metal counter rails
- current fails are caused by used, non-flat or non-Märklin sliders.

With ANY 50 mm long-slider, it is NOT normal to have any current interruptions

How to adjust metal counter rails?
- access underneath the point (remove the base plate)
- position the counter rails by using a reference axle (13.9mm spacing between innerside of wheels)
- with a long-nose-plyer twist gently the extremity of the counter-rail (made of sheet metal) until it is fixed (made sturdy with the rails body)
- finished

Just my 2 cents. Cheers
Jean
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline Brian_BR96  
#7 Posted : 20 July 2024 21:27:11(UTC)
Brian_BR96

United States   
Joined: 22/05/2020(UTC)
Posts: 32
Location: West Hartford, CT
Thank you Jean and Martin. I took the turnout apart and discovered the frog was bent out of shape. It was somewhat of a U shape in cross section when it should be square. I reshaped it and put insulating tape over the inner rail where the slider passes over. It's much better now and the locos are stable as they pass over and do not have an issue sparking.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Brian_BR96
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