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Offline brudon82  
#1 Posted : 06 July 2024 19:19:22(UTC)
brudon82

United States   
Joined: 13/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 11
Location: Washington, Spokane
Can I use a Blue transformer to c track? Thanks y’all
Offline JohnjeanB  
#2 Posted : 06 July 2024 19:37:00(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,551
Location: Paris, France
Hi
C Track works perfectly with Blue Märklin Transformers BUT all recent Märklin locos (all types except those with NO electronics, decoder, etc).
All other types may be fried by this kind of transformer because, when changing the direction ALL older M. transformer send a way too high a voltage (28VAC for mines) instead of 24VAC.
Cheers
Jean
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Offline Copenhagen  
#3 Posted : 06 July 2024 23:29:29(UTC)
Copenhagen


Joined: 23/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 493
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi
C Track works perfectly with Blue Märklin Transformers BUT all recent Märklin locos (all types except those with NO electronics, decoder, etc).


You always have great answers but isn't there something unclear in the first sentence? Or is it just me?
Offline brudon82  
#4 Posted : 07 July 2024 02:07:02(UTC)
brudon82

United States   
Joined: 13/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 11
Location: Washington, Spokane
Thanks I have analog locos and 1 with digital upgrade
Offline mvd71  
#5 Posted : 07 July 2024 03:56:46(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,916
Location: Auckland,
Is it a blue plastic controller, or blue metal?
Offline hvc  
#6 Posted : 07 July 2024 08:57:29(UTC)
hvc

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 431
Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
In summary:

  • Yes, Blue transformers will work with C-track.

  • Blue Plastic transformers are not dangerous for the operator.

  • Blue Metal transformers are very dangerous due to deteriorated internal power cords making the metal casing live with mains power (deadly), unless overhauled by an electrician. There are many threads about this on the forum.

  • Blue transformers of any kind should not be used with digital locomotives, only analogue ones.

  • White analogue transformers are safe for all locos.
- Herman
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Offline hvc  
#7 Posted : 07 July 2024 09:05:17(UTC)
hvc

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 431
Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
Originally Posted by: brudon82 Go to Quoted Post
Thanks I have analog locos and 1 with digital upgrade


Don't use a blue transformer with your digital loco. Sending the reverse pulse when the loco is close by the transformer will likely fry the decoder.

- Herman
Offline David Dewar  
#8 Posted : 07 July 2024 15:16:07(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,448
Location: Scotland
Why not just buy the current power pack and a CS3. Expensive but should last for years and let you run your locos.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline hvc  
#9 Posted : 08 July 2024 07:20:25(UTC)
hvc

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 431
Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
Why not just buy the current power pack and a CS3. Expensive but should last for years and let you run your locos.


... well, because the OP said:

Originally Posted by: brudon82 Go to Quoted Post
Thanks I have analog locos and 1 with digital upgrade


... so spending all that money on a CS3 would allow just one loco to be run - it won't work with the analog locos, until they are all upgraded to digital (or does the CS3 have some kind of analog mode that I don't know about?)

Edited by user 08 July 2024 10:59:44(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

- Herman
Offline Wolfram_Stn  
#10 Posted : 09 July 2024 18:03:12(UTC)
Wolfram_Stn

France   
Joined: 14/02/2024(UTC)
Posts: 59
Location: Grand-Est, Alsace
Originally Posted by: hvc Go to Quoted Post
In summary:

  • Yes, Blue transformers will work with C-track.


Right.

Originally Posted by: hvc Go to Quoted Post
  • Blue Plastic transformers are not dangerous for the operator.


Right.

Originally Posted by: hvc Go to Quoted Post
  • Blue Metal transformers are very dangerous due to deteriorated internal power cords making the metal casing live with mains power (deadly), unless overhauled by an electrician. There are many threads about this on the forum.


Fairy tale, often told but fairy tale.
These transformers are designed in sort of preventing all electric installation to touch the casing. So even if the insulations are broken, there will be no risk. This was necessary to get the certification "toy transformer" (little electric train symbol)

Originally Posted by: hvc Go to Quoted Post
  • Blue transformers of any kind should not be used with digital locomotives, only analogue ones.


All 608x, 609x and delta decoders, as well as 6090x decoders, are designed to be used with blue transformers. Why? There was no other. I would not use old 280S or similar, and prefer 6631 (for 220V or 230V, indifferently) because of their typical "kindness", not giving very high voltage to invert the direction. Old models, and models with little power (10VA, 16VA) give much higher voltages which may damage electronical components.

Originally Posted by: hvc Go to Quoted Post
  • White analogue transformers are safe for all locos.


False. I killed a decoder with a white transformer. Simply because the white transformers are not fundamentally different from blue ones, except very actual models maybe that could have a tension limiter.
So if you have a digital loco with mfx, or even fx programmable decoder, you should simply not use it with transformers, or if you really want to, use it only on one direction and do not change direction.
That's why I have two separate systems, one digital, one analogical, and no locos going from one to the other (even if the 6090x and delta might).

Sorry, but... that's reality.
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Offline hvc  
#11 Posted : 10 July 2024 01:15:37(UTC)
hvc

Australia   
Joined: 03/06/2013(UTC)
Posts: 431
Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
Originally Posted by: Wolfram_Stn Go to Quoted Post


Originally Posted by: hvc Go to Quoted Post
  • Blue Metal transformers are very dangerous due to deteriorated internal power cords making the metal casing live with mains power (deadly), unless overhauled by an electrician. There are many threads about this on the forum.


Fairy tale, often told but fairy tale.


I certainly do not claim any personal experience - I only run digital and analogue locos on separate layouts using modern transformers - and no point re-prosecuting this here as the OP's question has been answered, but for those who like a good fairy tale (ie stories with important life lessons), see here:

https://www.marklin-user...ut-Old-Blue-Transformers

and here

https://www.marklin-user...Are-they-reliable-enough

and importantly, on safety, Scared the forum user who received a large shock from his transformerScared , with photos:

https://www.marklin-user...me-a-huge-230-Volt-shock

Marco is a long-time member of the forum and a moderator, I certainly choose to believe his well-documented and frightening tale of electric shock by transformer.

And yes, there is nuance here, about which metal version, how old etc, - but please exercise extreme care and read the thread above.
- Herman
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Offline H0  
#12 Posted : 10 July 2024 08:04:17(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,432
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Wolfram_Stn Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: hvc Go to Quoted Post
  • White analogue transformers are safe for all locos.


False. I killed a decoder with a white transformer. Simply because the white transformers are not fundamentally different from blue ones, except very actual models maybe that could have a tension limiter.
Fairy tale. ThumpUp

AFAIK there are no Märklin transformers with "tension limiter". However, recent models prevent reverse transformation.
Old Märklin transformers can turn 16 V into 230 V or even more, leading to life hazards if two or more transformers are used without precaution, e.g. by children.

All decoders used in Märklin locos should be able to handle reversing voltages up to 28.28 V.
Electric devices sometimes die even when used within specified parameters, so yes, dead decoders can also occur with grey transformers.

But blue transformers can have reversing voltages of 31 V and significantly more, thus many decoders will be used outside their specification.

And I mentioned it a few times before: The overload protection of my grey transformers triggers in less than a second while it feels like about 5 or 6 seconds with my blue transformers. This can also make a big difference with respect to prevent or at least reduce damages.

Long story short: Grey transformers are enhanced in several ways:
  • Quicker overload protection
  • Prevent reverse transformation
  • Wired for lower reversing voltages

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Wolfram_Stn  
#13 Posted : 11 July 2024 18:49:43(UTC)
Wolfram_Stn

France   
Joined: 14/02/2024(UTC)
Posts: 59
Location: Grand-Est, Alsace
Hi Tom,

I wrote "could", I should have written "might perhaps". Some people say they have.
But, that's real, they have an anti-reverse dispositive. We had only the warning that never but never you shall connect the 0 AND the B or L of two transformers, and that you shall connect all transformers to a common poser point so that you can disrupt all in one.

Hi Herman,

the first link says nothing about life danger - just a link to another thread... this one: https://www.marklin-user...-Transformer-Danger.aspx
If you look at the photos, there is no danger at all that cables could touch the case, even if the isolation has gone.

About Marco's transformer, I am very surprised. This is a very, very singular case since the transformers are classified class II so even if the primary cable lost isolations the construction itself prevents from connection to the body. I suppose that this transformer had been opened earlier, because the papercard inlays were missing on his photos.
Yes, you have to be observant and vigilant. But, it's not to generalize on all blue metal body transformers when a single specimen has been wrongly repaired.
So, be vigilant when the original cable is in place (in Europe, often the plug has been cut and replaced because the old 2 poles plugs did not fit in 3 poles wall connectors), and also when a new cable is in place, except if you get a certificate from an electrician that the transformer is correctly repaired.

But never, never do connect the body to the 3rd pole, a transformer with default like Marco's could put 240V on all other transformer bodies !
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hvc
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