Joined: 01/07/2024(UTC) Posts: 12 Location: Texas, Houston
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What causes the MS2 to go into stop mode on its own? I have a 26507 SBahn push pull set that will trigger stop mode every 30secs. None of my other trains do this. It works fine in Delta or straight AC mode. I know it's not overloading the track box because the current draw for the whole set is around 0.5A running. The cars are lit with bulbs not LEDs. I don't even have to be running it, just sitting on the track is enough. Is there something with the pickup shoe changeover?
It acts like some sort of software drama vs a true mechanical or electrical issue. The set runs great, when it runs.
Marklin manuals are less than helpful explaining what can trigger stop mode like this.
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 1 user liked this useful post by impulsetaco
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Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC) Posts: 3,881 Location: Michigan, Troy
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Sounds like a short. Check the cab controll car alone, then add each car to it until it does it. If it's in one of the wheels, it mught even short without the cab car. if you wired up the led's, you may have connected them crossed at some point.
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 1 user liked this useful post by marklinist5999
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Joined: 01/07/2024(UTC) Posts: 12 Location: Texas, Houston
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I'm 100% sure it's not a short. Reasons: I checked the cars individually - all fine, there is not excessive current draw, and it doesn't make the normal "shorting" sound where you can hear the digital protcol making noise. Also, nothing else on the tracks acts up like when something is shorting (headlights going dark for example).
The loco does this without the cars too. I refuse to believe the decoder is bad, because the engine works FINE in analog, or delta modes. It runs great in digital too, when it isn't doing this.
What makes the MS2 go into "stop" on its own? Interference? Feedback? Overloading?
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 1 user liked this useful post by impulsetaco
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Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC) Posts: 3,881 Location: Michigan, Troy
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Yep, seems like the decoder is causing an overload. See if it is heating up with the body off.
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Joined: 01/07/2024(UTC) Posts: 12 Location: Texas, Houston
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cool to the touch just sitting there. very slightly warm after some running, like the motor itself.
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 1 user liked this useful post by impulsetaco
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Joined: 03/06/2007(UTC) Posts: 169
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What is the software version of your track box? There was an issue with v1.62 where it would overload when a smoke generator would turn on. The overload setting was too low for that version.
The problem is, while this has been fixed, the track box version hasn't been changed and 1.62 is the current version, so there is no way to be sure if this is your issue, but it is always best to keep the software up to date.
Rick
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 2 users liked this useful post by owidgie
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Joined: 01/07/2024(UTC) Posts: 12 Location: Texas, Houston
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Originally Posted by: owidgie  What is the software version of your track box? There was an issue with v1.62 where it would overload when a smoke generator would turn on. The overload setting was too low for that version.
The problem is, while this has been fixed, the track box version hasn't been changed and 1.62 is the current version, so there is no way to be sure if this is your issue, but it is always best to keep the software up to date.
Rick How can I check this? I only have MS2 and MS2 WLAN models. No computer or Central Station.
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Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,464 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
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Originally Posted by: impulsetaco  Originally Posted by: owidgie  What is the software version of your track box? There was an issue with v1.62 where it would overload when a smoke generator would turn on. The overload setting was too low for that version.
The problem is, while this has been fixed, the track box version hasn't been changed and 1.62 is the current version, so there is no way to be sure if this is your issue, but it is always best to keep the software up to date.
Rick How can I check this? I only have MS2 and MS2 WLAN models. No computer or Central Station. You check it on the ms2, by going to the same screen that tells you the ms2 software version.
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Joined: 01/07/2024(UTC) Posts: 12 Location: Texas, Houston
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So I checked, it is 1.62 like was mentioned. I think this is expected considering I bought it a week ago.
I had 2 older delta loks with smoke generators both running at the same time. No problem. I even tried dead shorting the track with a screwdriver and it wouldn't shut down. This is why I think its software or communication related, but how the heck can I tell?
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 1 user liked this useful post by impulsetaco
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Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,589 Location: Spain
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This seems like a difficult nut to crack. I suppose that you have already tried to simplify your setup; Try with just a single piece of track and the loco, and see how much time it last before stopping.
I think you have tried everything possible with the stuff that you have. In order to advance, you would need to swap out/substitute your pieces with others. Like; Try with another MS2. Try with another trackbox, another loco (fully digital/not delta), etc. You should try to get in contact with a dealer or another Märklin guy close to you, in order to try this out.
You should probably begin to see if you can return the set on warranty. Sorry. |
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 2 users liked this useful post by hxmiesa
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Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,441 Location: DE-NW
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Originally Posted by: impulsetaco  It works fine in Delta or straight AC mode. Does the layout have a feeder track with a radio interference suppressor as it came with analogue or Delta starter sets? Such a device will cause the MS2 to go to STOP perpetually. The Delta Control is more robust and just heats up a little bit, but does not turn off. |
Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS  |
 4 users liked this useful post by H0
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Joined: 01/07/2024(UTC) Posts: 12 Location: Texas, Houston
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Originally Posted by: hxmiesa  This seems like a difficult nut to crack. I suppose that you have already tried to simplify your setup; Try with just a single piece of track and the loco, and see how much time it last before stopping.
I think you have tried everything possible with the stuff that you have. In order to advance, you would need to swap out/substitute your pieces with others. Like; Try with another MS2. Try with another trackbox, another loco (fully digital/not delta), etc. You should try to get in contact with a dealer or another Märklin guy close to you, in order to try this out.
You should probably begin to see if you can return the set on warranty. Sorry. I have tried a lot, yeah!! I have the new MS2 WLAN model; same issue. Doesn't change whether the WLAN or connected MS2 is plugged in, or both. Other locos - fully digital, MFX, I don't think I have anything with MFX+, but all others work totally normally. I don't really have another trackbox to test out. I don't know that I am suspicious of this one physically, rather I think it's a software issue. An older one, not updated, might be worth trying, but I don't know where I would get that, and I think my MS2 would just update the trackbox software anyway.
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 2 users liked this useful post by impulsetaco
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Joined: 01/07/2024(UTC) Posts: 12 Location: Texas, Houston
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Originally Posted by: H0  Originally Posted by: impulsetaco  It works fine in Delta or straight AC mode. Does the layout have a feeder track with a radio interference suppressor as it came with analogue or Delta starter sets? Such a device will cause the MS2 to go to STOP perpetually. The Delta Control is more robust and just heats up a little bit, but does not turn off. Hi, no I'm not doing any of that. This is coming straight from the 29000 digital starter kit. Red to Bahn and Brown to Null(0). Straight from the trackbox wires to the little tabs underneith a piece of track. Your point is exactly my suspicion, or at least something like it. I'm wondering if there is something in the engine causing the problem or interference. It's a fully digital engine (26507; BR 143 for push/pull sbahn service), but the decoder is a little different than a normal one. It's got some relays on it to handle pickup-shoe change over from the cab control car when running in "push" mode. The set has those goofy dual-pin current couplers as opposed to the normal ones with the copper at the bottom. I'm wondering if there is something in the lok I need to isolate, or unisolate, or bridge to fix whatever this glitch is. Was hoping someone here had a similar set/difficulty and had some advice.
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 1 user liked this useful post by impulsetaco
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Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,273
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It seems one of the loco cause overload digital system. Did you checked lighting in the wagons too? Bulb makes sometimes disturb if you use to many watts on the tracks. The power feed for the MS2 via box present 36 watts maximum load. If you have several more bulbs in each wagon it´s easy by draw lot of power. |
H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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 1 user liked this useful post by Goofy
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Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 3,555 Location: Paris, France
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Hi Your Train is from 2001 with an FX decoder so prior to the "systems" decoders by ESU Originally Posted by: impulsetaco  I have tried a lot, yeah!! I have the new MS2 WLAN model; same issue. Doesn't change whether the WLAN or connected MS2 is plugged in, or both. Other locos - fully digital, MFX, I don't think I have anything with MFX , but all others work totally normally. Since in both tests you use the same track box, you may want to: - check the MS2 s/w version (mine is 4.13) The last vesion I think - check the trackbox version (mine is 1.62) The last vesion I think - maybe initialise the trackbox by reloading the lsat version How do I know the trackbox version?- go into MS2 parameters and scroll down until System Updates - select "Update Railbox" - you will get a query "Update from x.xx to 1.62" where x.xx is your present trackbox s/w version. - you may force the same version to be downloaded which results into a reset of the trackbox. Here is the inside of a 60116 Trackbox  As you may see there is no analog components so the current measure is made by digital sampling and comparison to a table. So a reset may help. I have found that one of my recent Märklin locos was having a false detection of "high current" but a reset sorted this out. Cheers Jean |
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 4 users liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
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Joined: 01/07/2024(UTC) Posts: 12 Location: Texas, Houston
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Thank you Jean! This is super helpful. I did the update of the MS2 when it first arrived, and I checked the trackbox last night so I know its 1.62. So that leads me to your idea to refresh it by attempting to update again. Definitely can't hurt to try.
I am not surprised there is nothing "analog" in the trackbox. This is why I feel like it's a software/communication problem somewhere. Or, like you say, a quick transient which causes a table value to be exceeded, and the trackbox to "trip out". I think another software update is probably the only way to fix that one....
Is there any way to for sure confirm that it's triping out as an overload? It just goes into "stop" mode on its own, no error messages are provided.
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 1 user liked this useful post by impulsetaco
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Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,225 Location: Montreal, QC
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Hello ImpulseTaco
(name would have been nicer)
I would suggest that you submit your query to digital(at)Marklin.com and see what Rick or Curtis may recommend. The set you have was available from 2001 to 2004. I don't know if there were any variations by production year. The locomotive would initially have had a 60902 decoder. The models came with current conducting couplers which allow for power selection from the leading end of the consist (locomotive or pilot coach) The description states "Pickup shoe changeover to the cab control car as well as the acceleration and braking delay can be turned on and off with the 6021 Control Unit" You stated that the locomotive has an issue when running light (solo). This would seem to indicate that the problem is not with the coaches. Nonetheless, I would try deactivating the power via coupler option and see if this resolves the issue.
I don't know if this model is the same as the individual 112/143/243 locomotives and the instructions are not available on the website. Check to make sure that the locomotive is fully set to obtain power from the track and that it is not making contact with both track and pantographs Perhaps Rick and Curtis can advise on the benefits of swapping out the motor and decoder to the newer versions to have better functionality with MFX and DC operation.
You might also try to get in touch with member Armando as he is in your area and is pretty knowledgeable about Marklin
Regards
Mike C
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Joined: 01/07/2024(UTC) Posts: 12 Location: Texas, Houston
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Thanks Mike, it's Jordon btw.
I'll see if Rick or Curtis have any ideas for sure.
Yes the loco has issues running (or just sitting there) with nothing attached. I tried what you said about deactivating the power over coupler (there is a jumper for this on the decoder for "testing" purposes) and guess what - NO ISSUE!!! So...why????
No issues with track power vs. catenary as I don't have overhead, unless you're thinking about the switch being dirty and causing issues.
The engine itself is like any other of the "older" designs before they went to C-Sinus or the modern cardan shaft arrangement. It's got the stock decoder but I know it's got design changes for this specific train set.
I'd rather keep it stock - if possible - because the old school tech is one of the fun things (to me) about Märklin.
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Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 3,555 Location: Paris, France
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Hi Jordon
Not sure what you mean with "no issue" (not solved?). In many many cases, reset the loco makes wonders. Have you tried it?
Cheers Jean |
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Joined: 01/07/2024(UTC) Posts: 12 Location: Texas, Houston
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Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB  Hi Jordon
Not sure what you mean with "no issue" (not solved?). In many many cases, reset the loco makes wonders. Have you tried it?
Cheers Jean Hi Jean - "no issue" meaning it works like it should, when the maintenance jumper is connected on the decoder. The manual recommends this only for maintenance work as the pickup shoe is "loco" in both directions. When the jumper is removed, lok first = pickup shoe on the lok; control car first = pickup shoe on the cab control car. How can I reset these older type decoders?
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Joined: 11/02/2006(UTC) Posts: 696 Location: Cheshire, UK
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There’s a fix for something very similar to this just announced by Märklin:
“The new firmware 4.15 for the Mobile Station 2 (60653/60657/T66950/T66955) prevents the MS2 from switching off when a BR24 (Starter sets 29243/29244) is steaming.
The firmware will be widely distributed with the next CS3 update.”
This might be worth a try!
Nigel |
Märklin collector since age 5. H0 Collection from 1935 to today. |
 1 user liked this useful post by Nigel Packer
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Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 3,555 Location: Paris, France
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Hi Jordon Originally Posted by: impulsetaco  How can I reset these older type decoders? The generic way to reset is to write CV8 = 8 With an MS2 - make sure only ONE loco is powered by the MS2 - select the loco modification mode - select reset to factory values and validate Not sure you can change the firmware on programmable FX decoders but as Nigel says it may be worth a try but you need a CS3 or CS2 connected to Internet and having received the latest s/w update (which also include many other things (firmware for decoders, firmware for MS2, for Link88, etc) Cheers Jean |
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Joined: 05/08/2015(UTC) Posts: 26 Location: Viken
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Hi Jordon, I am wondering if there is any capacitors connected to the locomotive? I had an issue once with a tail light that I installed in the last wagon of a train not using a proper rectifier bridge, just a diode and a capacitor. When I placed the wagon on the track it started lighting, but after some time two locomotives made a brief movement and the CS3 went into stop mode. Trying to understand what happened i believe that the capacitor was charging and when it reached a level it emitted power to the tracks interrupting the data signal and making the CS3 going to stop mode. The two locomotives reacted to analog power and managed to make a brief movement before the power went out. Sounds a little similier to your issue. BR Leif R
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Joined: 01/07/2024(UTC) Posts: 12 Location: Texas, Houston
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Originally Posted by: Nigel Packer  There’s a fix for something very similar to this just announced by Märklin:
“The new firmware 4.15 for the Mobile Station 2 (60653/60657/T66950/T66955) prevents the MS2 from switching off when a BR24 (Starter sets 29243/29244) is steaming.
The firmware will be widely distributed with the next CS3 update.”
This might be worth a try!
Nigel This is interesting; it means they already know of this problem.
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Joined: 01/07/2024(UTC) Posts: 12 Location: Texas, Houston
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Originally Posted by: g-gekko  Hi Jordon, I am wondering if there is any capacitors connected to the locomotive? I had an issue once with a tail light that I installed in the last wagon of a train not using a proper rectifier bridge, just a diode and a capacitor. When I placed the wagon on the track it started lighting, but after some time two locomotives made a brief movement and the CS3 went into stop mode. Trying to understand what happened i believe that the capacitor was charging and when it reached a level it emitted power to the tracks interrupting the data signal and making the CS3 going to stop mode. The two locomotives reacted to analog power and managed to make a brief movement before the power went out. Sounds a little similier to your issue. BR Leif R Heisann Leif! This is exactly what I'm trying to figure out - whether a part like this is a problem. The set is completely stock, as it left the factory, as far as I can tell. However, technology and specifications have changed since 2001 when the set was new. This leads me to exactly your question and what I'm hoping maybe I can figure out here; is there some component like a capacitor or RF suppressor that was okay on the older systems, but now needs to be removed/bypassed/changed to be compatible with the newer systems. Beste Hilsen, -jordon
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Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,225 Location: Montreal, QC
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Older locomotives had a design where the lights were wired with the ground being the chassis of the model. On most models since around 1994, the wiring was modified so that the lighting was directly connected to the decoder outputs. The 112/143/243 locomotives have existed at Maerklin since 1993. The 26507 was released in 2002, so it should not have this issue. Your model should have a 60901 decoder and wires directly to the decoder. As your locomotive can be set to take power from the pilot coach, there may be some issue with this which is tripping the MS2.
Regards
Mike C
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 1 user liked this useful post by mike c
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Joined: 21/01/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,272
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For what it is worth, my 3 unit santa fe f7, which i converted with 3 (!) motors, also triggers this behavior when pulling a set of 5 lighted streamliner coaches (some still with bulbs). In my case it is definitely overcurrent, but i also think the ms2 triggers too quickly on current spikes, while it should do more averaging. The same train works fine with esu ecos1. btw you should be able to see the measured current and voltage values somewhere in the ms2 menus, confirming the mentioned current. There is a possibility there is too much consumption due to overoiling or something.
br, bert
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 1 user liked this useful post by DasBert33
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Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC) Posts: 459 Location: Kaarina
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Originally Posted by: Nigel Packer  There’s a fix for something very similar to this just announced by Märklin:
“The new firmware 4.15 for the Mobile Station 2 (60653/60657/T66950/T66955) prevents the MS2 from switching off when a BR24 (Starter sets 29243/29244) is steaming.
The firmware will be widely distributed with the next CS3 update.”
This might be worth a try!
Nigel I wonder if this will fix the issue with the new ESUlok T18 where MS2 goes to stop when the loco is steaming (like 2/10 times)... Thou at ESU they said it can eat up to 1,5 amps. -Eino
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