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Offline Brian_BR96  
#1 Posted : 22 June 2024 01:24:27(UTC)
Brian_BR96

United States   
Joined: 22/05/2020(UTC)
Posts: 32
Location: West Hartford, CT
Hi all, I have a 6646 and a 6627 and I'd like to use the old blue trafo with the new small scale layout for sentimental reasons. I just purchased a 60760 kit to upgrade my Delta 3000 so that it may fare better with the inclines on my layout. I tried finding an older 60901 etc kit and they don't seem to be reliably available.

I've read that blue trafos and digital decoders don't get along. I've also read you have to watch out for the reverse pulse output voltage, and to keep in mind the voltage rating of the trafo. I checked mine out and it reads 120v on the face plate, and outputs about 18v at maximum speed and 27.5v with the reverse pulse.

I've tried researching the manufacture suggested voltage limits but they don't seem to be available. I've read a bunch of posts on here from some knowledgable people, some of whom suggested a pair of antiparallel diodes in series with the red wire going to the track.

Is it necessary to wire up the diodes given the voltage readings of my trafo? If so which should I use? I have a few on hand, mostly silicon diodes from my other hobby - guitar effects pedal building.

Thank you all
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Offline marklinist5999  
#2 Posted : 22 June 2024 12:51:09(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,867
Location: Michigan, Troy
Yes, newer decoders like the msd3 and mld3 mfx are better suited for newer switched mode power supplies than conventional transformers. Not an issue with the older Delta or fx decoders.
Offline JohnjeanB  
#3 Posted : 22 June 2024 18:44:52(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,551
Location: Paris, France
Hi Brian
I am a big fan of old Märklin and trafos of that period go along with those.
Old transformers (except those pre-war units) are OK BUT:
- the metal casing is not on par with safety regulations and they should have the frame grounded
- the power cord can be dangerous (e.g.: a rubber-based insulated cable from the early 50s desintegrates) and need replacing.
- the old transformers are huge, have a very large iron core but are very poor with regards to efficiency. The result is when running with no-load, the voltage can be quite high. This is quite fine with electromechanical Märklin but very bad with recent electronics (Delta or digital decoders).

What is the limit to use or not to use a blue transformer?
Simple: measure the voltage between B and O studs when the direction change is activated permanently at no load. It should read 25 VAC or below.
A higher value means that the peak voltage is above 40 V peak which is above the "absolute maximum ratings" of those recent decoders. The risk is to fry them.
Here is a blue transformer from Märklin in the 60s
Sans titre.png
As you may see, nice production
Cheers
Jean
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Offline mike c  
#4 Posted : 22 June 2024 20:12:04(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 8,217
Location: Montreal, QC
The blue plastic should still be usable. Remember that the main voltage (in) affects the output so a transformer that was designed to work at 110VAC will put out more than 16VAC when the mains are now 120VAC.
This is more of an issue where the voltage change was in the 220-240VAC range. Going up, it can fry electronics (decoders, etc) or cause locos to suddenly change direction. Going down, it can mean that instead of reversing direction, the locos might just drive off at high speed.

The old metal transformers should be avoided, due to the risk of cable deterioration and risk of electric shock from the metal housing
Another reason would be that the reverse pulse was activated by pushing down on the knob, which did not require the speed to be at zero when the pulse was actuated.
Modern decoders have recommendations that the pulse be used only when the loco is standing (zero)

Regards

Mike C
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Offline David Dewar  
#5 Posted : 22 June 2024 20:56:38(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,448
Location: Scotland
My view on model rail is to start with a new up to date powerpack and control system. Other items are usually safe but not all as said above. Older locos and coaches are great to run but other items I feel should be new.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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Offline Brian_BR96  
#6 Posted : 22 June 2024 21:52:33(UTC)
Brian_BR96

United States   
Joined: 22/05/2020(UTC)
Posts: 32
Location: West Hartford, CT
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
Yes, newer decoders like the msd3 and mld3 mfx are better suited for newer switched mode power supplies than conventional transformers. Not an issue with the older Delta or fx decoders.


My Delta starter kit came with this blue plastic bodied 6627 and I've never had issues with it. If I end up frying the decoder I'll revert the loco back to its original form, but it would be nice to have a load regulated decoder.
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