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Offline ProductionMgr  
#1 Posted : 20 March 2024 01:36:28(UTC)
ProductionMgr

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2024(UTC)
Posts: 14
Location: Pennsylvania, Allentown
Hi
I am wondering if it is reasonable to expect that running two Marklin Z gauge engines together will have them both pulling in tandem.
I know that in HO running a DCC engine(s)you can create what I believe is referred to a lash up.
What happens in the world of analog if you just hook two similar engines together back to back?
Is it the same for steam as well as diesel?
Thanks



Offline Toosmall  
#2 Posted : 20 March 2024 02:48:20(UTC)
Toosmall

Australia   
Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC)
Posts: 620
Location: Sydney
All my locos are 3 pole motors. They all run at the same speed, not that I have ever noticed any difference.

Can't speak about steam, as I avoided buying them due to traction issues in Z, only have two of them.

4 axle diesel & electric, bigger/heavier ones are the best to start will, or you will get frustrated. Then 6 axle (the centre axle of each bogie is about 0.5mm raised, so traction & electrical they are in effect only 4 axles), often they don't run just quite as well as 4 axle. Last the smaller locos. Then steam after that!

Multiples of the same loco definitely run at the same speed. Something I have noticed when I haven't purposely linked the couplings.
Offline Poor Skeleton  
#3 Posted : 20 March 2024 21:23:52(UTC)
Poor Skeleton

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 553
Location: England, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: Toosmall Go to Quoted Post

Multiples of the same loco definitely run at the same speed. Something I have noticed when I haven't purposely linked the couplings.


Most of my locos have the more recent 5 pole motors but, funnily enough, my experience is quite different and I have found that two examples of the same model can have very different running characteristics.

Double heading is very doable, though, and things tend to balance themselves out to share the load relatively evenly. Marklin locos don't have a enough traction to stall when over-loaded, so even double heading with very different locos is pretty safe - the faster one will just suffer from wheel spin. The worst I've experienced is a tendancy to derail when the rear loco is much more powerful than the front.

Hope this is helpful


Chris

Offline Toosmall  
#4 Posted : 20 March 2024 22:43:33(UTC)
Toosmall

Australia   
Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC)
Posts: 620
Location: Sydney
Wheel spin.

From my experience wheel spin is not an issue other than wearing off the chrome plating, abate very slowly, & I have flogged my ICE locos to death.

A few of my locos I have modified (machining in grooves) adding traction tyres. Even those locos still spin the wheels if the train set is too long.

Z locos just don't have anywhere near enough mass to stall the engine. Even adding lead to an ICE to over 50 grams & traction tyres on the third axle (best downward force) on the leading loco only (rear loco was not necessary) doesn't cause any issues.

I have put a set for traction tyres on the rear ICE loco, swapped an axle with another loco. But thought it wasn't necessary for the second loco to have traction tyres on a long ICE.

Rear loco did have extra weight, but not quite as much as the leading loco.

60221.jpg

67063.jpg

ICE.mov (2,462kb) downloaded 150 time(s).

60233.jpg

63061.jpg

Bypassing diodes on the ICE is the first most worthwhile modification so each loco picks up its own power, rather than the leading loco to then power the rear loco.

Tyres are heatshrink tube, not heated, simply stretched over the rim. The tyres have lasted brilliantly.
Offline husafreak  
#5 Posted : 21 March 2024 01:14:57(UTC)
husafreak

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 559
Location: California, Bay Area
Running them together will work fine. My guess is that Z scale locos don't have enough power, or traction, to do any damage to each other. I say this partly because my North American (AZL) locos are all DCC and it is almost impossible to speed match them in a consist like they do in larger scales. Every time you start them from cold they are running at different speeds again, LOL. It works better to just leave them all with the same settings, like a stock Marklin DC loco, and hook them up. maybe after 10 minutes check that they aren't getting really hot just to be sure.
Offline wildstix  
#6 Posted : 21 March 2024 10:54:15(UTC)
wildstix

Indonesia   
Joined: 12/05/2021(UTC)
Posts: 148
Location: Jakarta Raya, Jakarta
Originally Posted by: ProductionMgr Go to Quoted Post
Hi
I am wondering if it is reasonable to expect that running two Marklin Z gauge engines together will have them both pulling in tandem.
I know that in HO running a DCC engine(s)you can create what I believe is referred to a lash up.
What happens in the world of analog if you just hook two similar engines together back to back?
Is it the same for steam as well as diesel?
Thanks





The key is, make sure the engines came from at least a same batch of production. Like what I experimented with mine here,
?si=rZ4VLrri9z_1UzOE
note: full analog on my layout.

For the steam, AFAIK, it's also the same.
As in my case, I have two big steam engines, the S3/6 and the BR41. I replaced the S3/6 motor with 5-pole, less torque but slightly smoother than the BR41 (original 3-pole motor, better torque). I found it not ideal to use them in tandem due to difference in speed and torque.
Oka aka W. Kapriandi
Märklin Z scale (mini-club) purist but not a modeler!
Offline husafreak  
#7 Posted : 21 March 2024 16:11:41(UTC)
husafreak

United States   
Joined: 09/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 559
Location: California, Bay Area
Thanks for pointing that out! I would not combine different motor types but maybe that is not obvious.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by husafreak
Offline ProductionMgr  
#8 Posted : 23 March 2024 01:46:22(UTC)
ProductionMgr

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2024(UTC)
Posts: 14
Location: Pennsylvania, Allentown
Hi
I was surprised that those two engines had the "grunt" to pull that long train.
With that kind of torque, it seems to me that maybe the 2 percent rule on grades might not be quite accurate using similar engines.
Regards,
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by ProductionMgr
Offline ddurdle  
#9 Posted : 17 May 2024 22:12:22(UTC)
ddurdle

Canada   
Joined: 17/05/2024(UTC)
Posts: 8
Location: Ontario, Toronto
I just got into Z-scale this December. Prior to that I was mostly a N-scale fan that also owned lots of HO scale stuff.

I was wondering about multiple locomotives on a single Z-scale layout. I have lots of N/HO power packs but only two Z-scale power packs (both Marklin 10V). I was reading before how the Marklin locomotives require the most current with AZL requiring the least. In fact, this is what I found when I tested. Even when testing on a separate 9V Marklin battery pack, I noticed there is not enough current to drive a typical Marklin locomotive except for the starter packs small locomotives. The larger locomotives for AZL will run without issue off a 9V battery.

On my current 3 track layout, I can run a Marklin locomotive and 2 microtrain locomotives all concurrently off a singe Marklin 10v power pack. You can feel how their speed is all related. I have a long train consisting of 5 long passenger cars attached to the Marklin locomotive. This is the slowest of the train and all locomotives have slower speeds because of this locomotive's current drive. At one point it lost it's 5 passenger cars and speed immediately jumped, and so did the speed of the other 2 locomotives.

For all my N-scale layouts, I always run each track off it's own power pack. Every engine varies in it's power demands, with the Kato being the lowest power draw. But I've tried putting two medium power locomotives once on the same track and neither would barely budge. I definitely feel Z-scale wins out on this.
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