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Offline GORD3366  
#1 Posted : 04 January 2023 02:42:28(UTC)
GORD3366

Canada   
Joined: 27/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 2
Location: Quebec, St Sauveur
hi to everyone on the forum.
today i have a tech question, regarding older un-modified 1950's, 60's, 70's, MARKLIN locomotives running on M-Track
until recently, all my locomotives were running off the old style MARKLIN AC transformers...on M-TRACK.
Have seen a few youtube videos, and read on a forum, that these older locomotives run well on DC voltage.
and have now tested this, yes they run very well on DC..I use a regulated DC power supply,,
a few of my older locomotives are going to need new motors, the field coils are black. armatures are used up
in many forums including this Marlin one, there are discussions and techniques to 'upgrade motors / loks to digital
one can purchase a kit ( like example 60941, 60943, 60944, 60670), swap our certain pieces, and voila, a smoother running machine

my questions-obervations are as follows, any help would be appreciated
in these kits, we would get a permanent magnet, nice, no more wound coil magnet
get a new 5 pole armature motor, ..a new motor end plate, new brushes
and some of these kits come with a 'digital board'
i would like to run these converted loks on DC / 3 rail M-Track only, not interested in any digital aspects,
can we install just the magnet, motor, and plate, and expect these to run, ?
guessing the digital board also helps with 'reversing? not concerned, this can be done with external switching relay,

the loks i wish to modify, are model 3054, 3366, SK800, TM800, RM800, 3011,
my trains currently operate through a Phoenix contact programmable PLC unit..that uses relay outputs to make time based, event based, route decisions
this PLC can manage both AC and DC at the same time
some loks will remain AC and others will be converted to DC
can the motor, magnet, endplate be ordered seperately, skip the digital board aspect ?
thanks to everyone in advance,


thanks 1 user liked this useful post by GORD3366
Offline Mark5  
#2 Posted : 04 January 2023 02:59:16(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,420
Location: Montreal, Canada
Originally Posted by: GORD3366 Go to Quoted Post

....
guessing the digital board also helps with 'reversing? not concerned, this can be done with external switching relay,
.....
the loks i wish to modify, are model 3054, 3366, SK800, TM800, RM800, 3011,
my trains currently operate through a Phoenix contact programmable PLC unit..that uses relay outputs to make time based, event based, route decisions
this PLC can manage both AC and DC at the same time
some loks will remain AC and others will be converted to DC
...


Hello Gord,
Welcome to the Forum, fellow Quebecer!
I am no expert, but what you are trying to do is quite unconventional. Should you wish to standardize with other material later, you will have to consider certain modifications on each new item.

Just thinking of my own process, which is just to simplify wherever possible.
If you need another transformer, I am close by and have several extra.

Cheers and I hope you find a solution that works for you.

- Mark
DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1950-65, fan of station architecture esp. from 1920-70.
In single point perspective, where do track lines meet?
Offline PJMärklin  
#3 Posted : 04 January 2023 05:24:26(UTC)
PJMärklin

Australia   
Joined: 04/12/2013(UTC)
Posts: 2,195
Location: Hobart, Australia
Originally Posted by: GORD3366 Go to Quoted Post
...i would like to run these converted loks on DC / 3 rail M-Track only, not interested in any digital aspects,
can we install just the magnet, motor, and plate, and expect these to run, ?
guessing the digital board also helps with 'reversing? not concerned, this can be done with external switching relay, ...


Hello Gord,

I would feel the answer is yes to the question in the box above. (The rest depends on if the loco can be fitted with one of the 5 pole kits and also your programmable unit)

When I convert an old analogue loco to digital control, on my bench after dismantling the loco I first usually upgrade the motor to 5 pole with the permanent magnet type kits you describe. After I have installed the new motor I test this using a 9 volt DC battery across the motor terminals.

As you say, you are left with the issue of reversing which I expect could be overcome by a "2 rail DC" type controller.

Have fun,

PJ BigGrin


Offline rugauger  
#4 Posted : 16 January 2023 18:08:16(UTC)
rugauger

United Kingdom   
Joined: 19/12/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,205
Location: Swindon, Wiltshire
You say the field coils are black - presumably that's just dirt? Armatures "used up" - that sounds unusual. Can you describe the problems you are having with these?

Putting in 5-pole kits seems a bit excessive given the cost of these, if you are not going digital. I would hunt around for spare parts or whole locos offered for spares/repairs instead. If you do want to convert the motors, you can find the motor parts (without the decoder) on eBay. Note that these conversions make the motors DC-only, so you either have to solder in some diodes between the reversing relay and the motor, or you get a decoder that can "understand" both analogue DC and AC.
Richard
Offline drewi5h  
#5 Posted : 23 November 2023 20:11:04(UTC)
drewi5h

Canada   
Joined: 23/11/2023(UTC)
Posts: 3
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Originally Posted by: Mark5 Go to Quoted Post


Hello Gord,
Welcome to the Forum, fellow Quebecer!
I am no expert, but what you are trying to do is quite unconventional. Should you wish to standardize with other material later, you will have to consider certain modifications on each new item.

Just thinking of my own process, which is just to simplify wherever possible.
If you need another transformer, I am close by and have several extra.

Cheers and I hope you find a solution that works for you.

- Mark


Hi Mark! I've been searching through here to try to find how to get my 2983 Delta set working here in Canada. It's from Belgium originally. Saw your post and wondered if you still had any controllers and if one of them would help me out. Looking forward to hearing from you ;)
Offline mike c  
#6 Posted : 24 November 2023 05:15:59(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,833
Location: Montreal, QC
Maerklin had motor update kits that were available even for some of the older models.

If you need parts, there are several shops in Germany and Switzerland that have good parts inventories.
These include Ritter Restaurationen and others. I have used some of them for parts for my 3014 (RET800) and others.

Drew. Your best bet to run your 2983 Delta set is to acquire a 6647 120VAC transformer. You can connect it to your Delta set and run it.
The alternative would be to swap for a Mobile Station and run your set using the corresponding digital addresses to the switch settings on your delta models.

Regards

Mike C
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by mike c
Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 24 November 2023 08:47:45(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,245
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
Drew. Your best bet to run your 2983 Delta set is to acquire a 6647 120VAC transformer.
Mike meant to write 6646 which is the ref. number for the 120 V transformer.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline drewi5h  
#8 Posted : 25 November 2023 06:25:19(UTC)
drewi5h

Canada   
Joined: 23/11/2023(UTC)
Posts: 3
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
...

Drew. Your best bet to run your 2983 Delta set is to acquire a 6647 120VAC transformer. You can connect it to your Delta set and run it.
The alternative would be to swap for a Mobile Station and run your set using the corresponding digital addresses to the switch settings on your delta models.

Regards

Mike C


Much appreciated reply, whats the best way for me to get either? Any vendors you recommend?

Have a great weekend,

A

Offline dickinsonj  
#9 Posted : 28 November 2023 01:28:09(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,675
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: drewi5h Go to Quoted Post


Much appreciated reply, what's the best way for me to get either? Any vendors you recommend?

I can highly recommend Euro Rail Hobbies in Summerland.

Walter Menzel has given me the very best service for many years and is great to deal with.



Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
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