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Offline skeeterbuck  
#1 Posted : 11 May 2021 14:18:49(UTC)
skeeterbuck

United States   
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC)
Posts: 523
Location: Maryland, Baltimore
I recently purchased a G800 Br44 loco with it's original box. This I think is an early version of the G800 (circa 1950) because it still has the spoon type pickups that were in use before the slider and had never been converted. It also has the wooden box bottom and there are also no traction tires used on the drive wheels, which I think came on the later versions. It's not perfect by any means but not too bad considering its age. I put it on my test track for a quick evaluation and as soon as I applied power I saw some sparking and smoke wisps out of the engine. I quickly cut the power and removed the loco to the engine house (work bench) for investigation by the shop foreman (me). In my attempt to remove the body, it quickly became obvious what the problem was. The motor shield/brush bracket was coming apart in pieces as a result of being attacked by the dreaded zinkpest.

So now I'm in pursuit of an replacement motor shield/bracket. What I'm also looking for is an exploded diagram of the parts for this loco just in case I find I need some additional parts. Thanks to all for any help or info you can provide.

Chuck
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Offline kamstutz  
#2 Posted : 11 May 2021 15:28:52(UTC)
kamstutz

United States   
Joined: 27/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 192
Location: Orlando, FL
Good morning Chuck -
I think I have the exploded diagram for the G800 somewhere, but cannot locate it at the moment. Although the later versions of the BR44 (GN800, 3027, and 3047) are similar, there are some obvious differences. I attach here the exploded diagram for the #3047 for now until either I find the correct one for your G800 or someone else posts it. I also attach a scan of the booklet that accompanied the GN800 - again not exactly what you need, but something to annex to your digital file collection.

Coincidently I did a complete tear down and clean up of one of my G800's this past weekend so the model is fresh in my mind. If you need any assistance please post your questions.

Regards,

Kurt

3047_explo.pdf (207kb) downloaded 102 time(s).
MarklinGN800-3009_m.pdf (725kb) downloaded 111 time(s).
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Offline skeeterbuck  
#3 Posted : 11 May 2021 15:43:05(UTC)
skeeterbuck

United States   
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC)
Posts: 523
Location: Maryland, Baltimore
Thanks Kurt for the info. Do you remember if the motor shield on you loco looked like this?

G800 Motor Shield
Offline kamstutz  
#4 Posted : 11 May 2021 16:21:54(UTC)
kamstutz

United States   
Joined: 27/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 192
Location: Orlando, FL
Chuck - That shield looks like the correct one. The shield on my G800.3 (attached) only differs from the image you posted in lacking the small hole immediately below and to the left of the graphite brush. Aside from that difference the overall shape and, most importantly, the locations of the two attachment screw holes, are identical.

Kurt

IMG_8177.jpg
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Offline skeeterbuck  
#5 Posted : 11 May 2021 16:51:24(UTC)
skeeterbuck

United States   
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC)
Posts: 523
Location: Maryland, Baltimore
Thanks Kurt!

Because of the 70 years of oil and dust this engine has accumulated, I plan of disassembling it completely for a through cleaning. I also will need to address some zinc bloom (whiteish powder) that has developed on the tender casting. This is very common to these cast metal tender shells. Thankfully there's more on the inside that the outside on this example.

Chuck
Offline JohnjeanB  
#6 Posted : 11 May 2021 18:56:14(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,052
Location: Paris, France
Hi
You have 2 solutions for this
* one is the original spare part like this one https://www.ritter-restauratione...y=1.3.3;artID=6373;typ=1
* another is the remplacement of the motor with an LFCM motor replacement kit 60944 kit. The loco will run better but will lose its authenticity touch.

Here is mine from 1950 or 1951 with spoon pick-up (doppeltes Löffelschleifer) and no tires
G800.png
Cheers
Jean
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Offline skeeterbuck  
#7 Posted : 12 May 2021 12:32:46(UTC)
skeeterbuck

United States   
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC)
Posts: 523
Location: Maryland, Baltimore
Thanks Jean for the info.

I've been able to source a used motor shield on Ebay. You have a good looking G800! The one I have is also an earlier one like yours with the spoon style pickups and no traction tires. Just the weighted boiler to provide traction.

Chuck
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Offline skeeterbuck  
#8 Posted : 12 May 2021 14:44:10(UTC)
skeeterbuck

United States   
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC)
Posts: 523
Location: Maryland, Baltimore
Well the saga continues. First the good news! I was able to find a replacement motor shield for my G800 restoration on Ebay so hopefully this will be here soon. Unfortunately there is also some bad news. I discovered that the bakelite plate that holds two contacts on the reverse unit is cracked. Cursing So now I looking for a replacement. Any guidance or suggestions are welcomed.

Here's a link to a site that explains the different style of Märklin analog reverse units used over the years. The one I have is the second type.

http://www.tischeisenbah...lin/MaeTech/MaeTech2.htm

Thanks! Chuck
Offline river6109  
#9 Posted : 13 May 2021 02:05:48(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,595
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: skeeterbuck Go to Quoted Post
Well the saga continues. First the good news! I was able to find a replacement motor shield for my G800 restoration on Ebay so hopefully this will be here soon. Unfortunately there is also some bad news. I discovered that the bakelite plate that holds two contacts on the reverse unit is cracked. Cursing So now I looking for a replacement. Any guidance or suggestions are welcomed.

Here's a link to a site that explains the different style of Märklin analog reverse units used over the years. The one I have is the second type.

http://www.tischeisenbah...lin/MaeTech/MaeTech2.htm

Thanks! Chuck


If I would have read your article I had all thes spare parts from my G 800 which I converted to digital a while ago, I'll have a look at the reversing unit

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Henrik Schütz  
#10 Posted : 13 May 2021 15:03:28(UTC)
Henrik Schütz

Sweden   
Joined: 04/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 74
Location: Stockholms Lan, Stockholm
Originally Posted by: skeeterbuck Go to Quoted Post
Thanks Kurt!

Because of the 70 years of oil and dust this engine has accumulated, I plan of disassembling it completely for a through cleaning. I also will need to address some zinc bloom (whiteish powder) that has developed on the tender casting. This is very common to these cast metal tender shells. Thankfully there's more on the inside that the outside on this example.

Chuck


The tender is actually cast in magnesium, the same alloy that was used for cast freight cars by märklin the white powder is very common, but it does not harm the structure as zincpest does.

Only metal tenders in zinc from this era iare the last SK800 tenders, they are heavier than their magnesium counterpart, by this time, the production of cast freight cars had ended, and all other tenders were plastic, so marklin didnt bother to use magnesium for just ome product.

Good luck with your locomotive.

Henrik Schütz
Sweden

Offline skeeterbuck  
#11 Posted : 13 May 2021 15:34:14(UTC)
skeeterbuck

United States   
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC)
Posts: 523
Location: Maryland, Baltimore
This is Zinkpest my G800 motor shield & white powder on tender with real coal.

Chuck

[img]UserPostedImage[/img]

[img]UserPostedImage[/img]

[img]UserPostedImage[/img]
Offline cookee_nz  
#12 Posted : 14 May 2021 07:28:20(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,945
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: skeeterbuck Go to Quoted Post
I recently purchased a G800 Br44 loco with it's original box. This I think is an early version of the G800 (circa 1950) because it still has the spoon type pickups that were in use before the slider and had never been converted. It also has the wooden box bottom and there are also no traction tires used on the drive wheels, which I think came on the later versions. It's not perfect by any means but not too bad considering its age. I put it on my test track for a quick evaluation and as soon as I applied power I saw some sparking and smoke wisps out of the engine. I quickly cut the power and removed the loco to the engine house (work bench) for investigation by the shop foreman (me). In my attempt to remove the body, it quickly became obvious what the problem was. The motor shield/brush bracket was coming apart in pieces as a result of being attacked by the dreaded zinkpest.

So now I'm in pursuit of an replacement motor shield/bracket. What I'm also looking for is an exploded diagram of the parts for this loco just in case I find I need some additional parts. Thanks to all for any help or info you can provide.

Chuck



Hi Chuck, I have those parts sheets, on my webpage right here but they are smaller than ideal, I just need to get around to updating them. Common source for parts is Ritter, but there are others, including ebay where sometimes they can be found

https://www.marklin-user...partsinfo/info-pre57.htm

But I have also attached the larger pages. Unfortunately they are rather light on actual detail, being more of an overview than anything, but better than nothing.

** Note, save these four images to your PC, then you can view them full-size (much larger). The forum preview reduces them

G800 and GN800-1 1055 (300).jpg

G800 and GN800-2 1055 (300).jpg

G800 and GN800-3 1055 (300).jpg

G800 and GN800-4 1055 (300).jpg
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#13 Posted : 14 May 2021 12:49:38(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,052
Location: Paris, France
Hi
Originally Posted by: skeeterbuck Go to Quoted Post
Well the saga continues. First the good news! I was able to find a replacement motor shield for my G800 restoration on Ebay so hopefully this will be here soon. Unfortunately there is also some bad news. I discovered that the bakelite plate that holds two contacts on the reverse unit is cracked. Cursing So now I looking for a replacement. Any guidance or suggestions are welcomed.

Here's a link to a site that explains the different style of Märklin analog reverse units used over the years. The one I have is the second type.

http://www.tischeisenbah...lin/MaeTech/MaeTech2.htm

Thanks! Chuck

Chuck, in case you don't find a replacement or you find the prices too high (70€ here in Germany for a similar "Umschalter" https://www.ebay.de/itm/28386257...72e8a:g:NusAAOSwI5FeqtXO) you have 2 other options:
* use a regular direction relay (5€ here). Of course you will not have the 4 position relay but you will remove the jump (Boxsprung) when changing directions
* replace the "Pertinax" plate with a piece of PCB (to purchase in electronic shops). Saw it to shape and cut the copper to insulate the fixing screw and the 2 contacts
I hope this helps
Cheers
Jean
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Offline skeeterbuck  
#14 Posted : 14 May 2021 18:19:21(UTC)
skeeterbuck

United States   
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC)
Posts: 523
Location: Maryland, Baltimore
Thanks guys for the suggestions and info.

I was able to find a used motor shield on ebay. The seller says it came off a RSM 800 loco which according to Ritter's site is the same part. It looks the same in the listing as the one I had so I'm hoping it will work.

I was also able to have a member on the Facebook page for Marklin Analog Group who's sending me a set of finger contacts fot the reverse unit. This is the only part that's broken, so hopefully this will be all that I'll need to get my G800 up and running. Cool

Chuck
Offline river6109  
#15 Posted : 16 May 2021 03:09:22(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,595
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Unfortunately I couldn't find the reversing unit for this loco, hang on, I've just lookd at the spar part list and I remeber seeing one of them in my tray, will get bck to you

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline kamstutz  
#16 Posted : 16 May 2021 06:14:45(UTC)
kamstutz

United States   
Joined: 27/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 192
Location: Orlando, FL
Cookie - Thanks for sharing the scans.

Kurt
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Offline prba4650  
#17 Posted : 16 May 2021 08:58:05(UTC)
prba4650

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/11/2020(UTC)
Posts: 17
Location: England, Derbyshire
Just read all the posts. As I recall the earliest G800s had the reverse relay in the tender with a push rod for manual reversing protruding from the rear. I am away from home until 18th May, so I won't be 100% certain until then, but I am pretty sure I have a good spare reverse relay for G800. If you pay for postage and packing from the UK where I live, you can have it free of charge.
Peter
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Offline kamstutz  
#18 Posted : 16 May 2021 16:59:57(UTC)
kamstutz

United States   
Joined: 27/03/2015(UTC)
Posts: 192
Location: Orlando, FL
On the topic of restoration of the G800 -

My first version G800 tender is starting to show some oxidation from the coal in the tender. This is very common with this G800 early version. In general I like to keep my 800 series locomotives unaltered, but I'm thinking that to prevent further oxidation perhaps it would be better to remove all the original coal, clean the tender and replace the coal load with a replica (such as available by Ritters). Otherwise I expect that the oxidation will only get worse over time. Unless there is some chemical that could be applied to stop the oxidation I don't really see any other alternative, but to remove the original coal from the tender.

What have others done in this case?

Thanks for your comments and suggestions,

G800Tender.jpg

Kurt
Offline skeeterbuck  
#19 Posted : 16 May 2021 18:20:08(UTC)
skeeterbuck

United States   
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC)
Posts: 523
Location: Maryland, Baltimore
I've been able to clean the oxidation from the outside areas of my tender and applied a light coat of Ballistol to help prevent any further reaction. It's nearly impossible to get at the oxidation inside the coal bin. My plan for now is to remove the coal and scrape/clean just the inside bin area down to bare metal. Then I can just repaint that area by careful masking and then reinsert the coal back into the bin. I'm thinking of making a form that is an exact fit for inside the bin for the coal load and then inserting it, similar to the Ritter coal load. That way if I have an issue later it will be very easy to correct. Thought it taken 70+ years of questionable storage to get this bad, being stored in a climate controlled area, I seriously doubt it will ever be an issue in my lifetime.

Chuck
Offline skeeterbuck  
#20 Posted : 16 May 2021 18:23:05(UTC)
skeeterbuck

United States   
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC)
Posts: 523
Location: Maryland, Baltimore
Thanks Peter for the offer. Cool

Just let me know if you can locate one and I'd be more that happy to pay the postage from the UK to the Colonies (USA) ThumpUp
Offline skeeterbuck  
#21 Posted : 16 May 2021 18:32:30(UTC)
skeeterbuck

United States   
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC)
Posts: 523
Location: Maryland, Baltimore
Originally Posted by: kamstutz Go to Quoted Post
On the topic of restoration of the G800 -

My first version G800 tender is starting to show some oxidation from the coal in the tender. This is very common with this G800 early version. In general I like to keep my 800 series locomotives unaltered, but I'm thinking that to prevent further oxidation perhaps it would be better to remove all the original coal, clean the tender and replace the coal load with a replica (such as available by Ritters). Otherwise I expect that the oxidation will only get worse over time. Unless there is some chemical that could be applied to stop the oxidation I don't really see any other alternative, but to remove the original coal from the tender.

What have others done in this case?

Thanks for your comments and suggestions,

G800Tender.jpg

Kurt


Your oxidation doesn't appear to be as extensive as mine. Maybe consider using a water based black stain or thinned paint to apply to the areas of oxidation to darken it to make it less noticeable. I think the oxidation is from storage in unheated or damp areas which are much less prevalent in todays modern homes. Plus the fact that were here revere out Märklin trains where in the past they were just considered "Toys". Wink

Offline skeeterbuck  
#22 Posted : 16 May 2021 18:34:04(UTC)
skeeterbuck

United States   
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC)
Posts: 523
Location: Maryland, Baltimore
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Unfortunately I couldn't find the reversing unit for this loco, hang on, I've just lookd at the spar part list and I remeber seeing one of them in my tray, will get bck to you

John


Just send a PM if you locate one John.

Chuck

Offline kiwiAlan  
#23 Posted : 17 May 2021 00:17:52(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,053
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: skeeterbuck Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kamstutz Go to Quoted Post
On the topic of restoration of the G800 -

My first version G800 tender is starting to show some oxidation from the coal in the tender. This is very common with this G800 early version. In general I like to keep my 800 series locomotives unaltered, but I'm thinking that to prevent further oxidation perhaps it would be better to remove all the original coal, clean the tender and replace the coal load with a replica (such as available by Ritters). Otherwise I expect that the oxidation will only get worse over time. Unless there is some chemical that could be applied to stop the oxidation I don't really see any other alternative, but to remove the original coal from the tender.

What have others done in this case?

Thanks for your comments and suggestions,

G800Tender.jpg

Kurt


Your oxidation doesn't appear to be as extensive as mine. Maybe consider using a water based black stain or thinned paint to apply to the areas of oxidation to darken it to make it less noticeable. I think the oxidation is from storage in unheated or damp areas which are much less prevalent in todays modern homes. Plus the fact that were here revere out Märklin trains where in the past they were just considered "Toys". Wink



I suspect it is a reaction between the glue and the metal, rather than anything to do with the coal. Skeeterbucks idea to make a form for the coal so it would drop into the tender is probably a good way to go, it would allow putting a layer of paint over the (hidden) surface of the coal to stop the glue coming into contact with the metal of the tender.
Offline skeeterbuck  
#24 Posted : 17 May 2021 02:32:37(UTC)
skeeterbuck

United States   
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC)
Posts: 523
Location: Maryland, Baltimore
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: skeeterbuck Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kamstutz Go to Quoted Post
On the topic of restoration of the G800 -

My first version G800 tender is starting to show some oxidation from the coal in the tender. This is very common with this G800 early version. In general I like to keep my 800 series locomotives unaltered, but I'm thinking that to prevent further oxidation perhaps it would be better to remove all the original coal, clean the tender and replace the coal load with a replica (such as available by Ritters). Otherwise I expect that the oxidation will only get worse over time. Unless there is some chemical that could be applied to stop the oxidation I don't really see any other alternative, but to remove the original coal from the tender.

What have others done in this case?

Thanks for your comments and suggestions,

G800Tender.jpg

Kurt


Your oxidation doesn't appear to be as extensive as mine. Maybe consider using a water based black stain or thinned paint to apply to the areas of oxidation to darken it to make it less noticeable. I think the oxidation is from storage in unheated or damp areas which are much less prevalent in todays modern homes. Plus the fact that were here revere out Märklin trains where in the past they were just considered "Toys". Wink



I suspect it is a reaction between the glue and the metal, rather than anything to do with the coal. Skeeterbucks idea to make a form for the coal so it would drop into the tender is probably a good way to go, it would allow putting a layer of paint over the (hidden) surface of the coal to stop the glue coming into contact with the metal of the tender.


I think you're exactly correct Alan. I had some oxidation on the inside the tender, but that cleaned up rather easily. I don't know what type of glue Märklin used (maybe epoxy) but that stuff is tuff. I was chipping away at it with a small screwdriver and it didn't want to budge. Also, whenever you see the old engines with the real coal used in the tender, you see the most oxidation where the coal and glue touches the edge of the metal casting of the coal bin.
Offline prba4650  
#25 Posted : 17 May 2021 13:27:08(UTC)
prba4650

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/11/2020(UTC)
Posts: 17
Location: England, Derbyshire
Originally Posted by: skeeterbuck Go to Quoted Post
Thanks Peter for the offer. Cool

Just let me know if you can locate one and I'd be more that happy to pay the postage from the UK to the Colonies (USA) ThumpUp


Will do, give me a few days to look for and (hopefully) find it. Do you need a motor shield ( brushholder) too, or have you found one?
Offline skeeterbuck  
#26 Posted : 17 May 2021 14:11:54(UTC)
skeeterbuck

United States   
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC)
Posts: 523
Location: Maryland, Baltimore
Originally Posted by: prba4650 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: skeeterbuck Go to Quoted Post
Thanks Peter for the offer. Cool

Just let me know if you can locate one and I'd be more that happy to pay the postage from the UK to the Colonies (USA) ThumpUp


Will do, give me a few days to look for and (hopefully) find it. Do you need a motor shield ( brushholder) too, or have you found one?


I've found one on ebay that looks correct. The seller said that it came from a RSM800 loco. From what I was able to determine, this is the same one that was used on the G800. Also on Ritter Restoration website, they sell a replacement motor shield for the G800 and it indicated that it will fit the RSM800 also.

I won't be 100% sure until it arrives. I have my fingers crossed. Unsure

Chuck

Offline skeeterbuck  
#27 Posted : 18 May 2021 03:13:13(UTC)
skeeterbuck

United States   
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC)
Posts: 523
Location: Maryland, Baltimore
Update info: My motor shield/brush bracket arrived today and it fit fine. I was able to power up the loco for the first time since it arrived and it seamed to run well.

Next step is to get the reverse unit sorted so I can try and actually run it on some track. Also need to deal with the tender oxidation.

Chuck
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Offline prba4650  
#28 Posted : 18 May 2021 18:23:38(UTC)
prba4650

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/11/2020(UTC)
Posts: 17
Location: England, Derbyshire
20210518_155727.jpg

Attached is a picture of the 2 relays I have amongst my cabinets full of Maerklin HO spares!

One actually came from a G800, but as you can see you would need to search for and connect the power supply wire. The other relay has the wire but its history is unknown, and its condition is not as good.

Which would you prefer me to send?

I am quite happy to stick to my original offer, but as an alternative, I need a used but reusable power bogie from one of the following Maerklin locomotives:- 3050,
3051/55, 3053/4, 3066/7/8, 3070/1, 3022, 3041/43, 3057/8, 3074/75 or a chassis for 3011/12/13/14. Motor bits not needed, just the casting with gears or even without gears (I have a lot of them!)! I actually need one of each type mentioned, so if you happen to have more than one I would be very happy to pay to make the exchange fair.

Whatever you choose, I will need your postal address. I am a relatively new forum member, so I don't know how this is done. For security, do we exchange email addresses and use email to get the postal address(es)?

Thanks,
Peter
Offline skeeterbuck  
#29 Posted : 19 May 2021 00:10:44(UTC)
skeeterbuck

United States   
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC)
Posts: 523
Location: Maryland, Baltimore
Thanks Peter, I'll send you a PM.

Chuck
Offline prba4650  
#30 Posted : 19 May 2021 10:05:17(UTC)
prba4650

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/11/2020(UTC)
Posts: 17
Location: England, Derbyshire
20210519_080841 (Small).jpg20210519_084018.jpg20210519_084043.jpg

Hopefully there are some pictures attached of screws for the G800 pickup shoe, and of my spares cabinets (for interest!)
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Offline prba4650  
#31 Posted : 19 May 2021 10:16:16(UTC)
prba4650

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/11/2020(UTC)
Posts: 17
Location: England, Derbyshire
Sorry, they are inverted! I'm working on it.
Offline prba4650  
#32 Posted : 19 May 2021 10:26:06(UTC)
prba4650

United Kingdom   
Joined: 16/11/2020(UTC)
Posts: 17
Location: England, Derbyshire
20210519_091808.jpg20210519_091752.jpg

That looks better!
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Offline drmusix  
#33 Posted : 22 May 2021 12:05:05(UTC)
drmusix

Germany   
Joined: 16/03/2020(UTC)
Posts: 47
Location: Bayern, Kaufbeuren
Hi guys, I got that (first) G800 version this year too. Here's what I had to do with the tender:
UserPostedImage

Removing the old coal with a wooden toothpick - and KEEPING the stuff for re-use.
UserPostedImage

The I removed the white stuff (oxide) with another toothpick and covered the metal base with Ballistol oil
Put some Revell SM 302 paint on the edges only
UserPostedImage

and glued the coal to the tender using Ponal wood-glue.
There she is ...
UserPostedImage

I was lucky that everything else was working and there is no zincpest after it had been stored away for about 40-50 years by its original owner.

Cheers Wolfgang
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Offline skeeterbuck  
#34 Posted : 23 May 2021 03:10:04(UTC)
skeeterbuck

United States   
Joined: 15/12/2015(UTC)
Posts: 523
Location: Maryland, Baltimore
Hi Wolfgang, Thanks for posting pics of your engine. Mine is in slightly worse condition with more white powder oxidation on the tender. The worst area being inside the coal bin area. I removed the coal and throughly cleaned it with a stainless steel wire brush and them sanded the areas to smooth and also to provide a good surface for repainting. I primed the area with Tamiya metal primer and repainted the area black again. The remainder of the outside of the tender was treated like yours with Ballistol to help preserve the casting from further oxidation. Update pics:
img]UserPostedImage[/img][img]http://UserPostedImage[/img][img]http://UserPostedImage[/img][img]http://UserPostedImage[/img][img]UserPostedImage[/img]

Edited by user 23 May 2021 15:30:30(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline oliver  
#35 Posted : 24 March 2022 16:25:32(UTC)
oliver


Joined: 22/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 11
Location: USA, N.E.
Chuck I just ruin into this posting. I have a G800.1 (ca.1950). Reversing unit in the tender. It worked fine, but needed cosmetic work and I took it completely apart. It had no oxidation damage. All parts are there and labeled. I threw away the original coal. All paint has been removed. I never got around to finish the project, but it would be a great locomotive for someone who does it.
If you still need any pictures of parts I will be glad to send them.
If anybody it's interested to complete the project, contact me.
Otto
Offline tworail  
#36 Posted : 30 September 2023 04:52:28(UTC)
tworail


Joined: 01/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 241
Location: Ontario, Canada
Seeing as there is a thread full of G800 experts, I thought I would post this...

I just received an early version of the G800, with conventional early pick-up sliders, and traction tires at the rear. It came with a wooden box bottom which was a nice surprise.

No major issues except it will only run forward, and even changing the direction switch (either manually or via the transformer) does nothing to change this, it continues to run forward no matter what position the barrel contacts are in. It's possible the wiring to the reverser in the tender was changed at some point, but I have no reference point and lack a wiring diagram. Furthermore, this is the first engine I have had on the workbench that exhibited this behavior, so I really am starting from scratch.

Any thoughts from the experts on this one?

John
Offline JohnjeanB  
#37 Posted : 30 September 2023 23:11:14(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,052
Location: Paris, France
Hi John
Sorry, I am no expert but a long time Märklin fan.
I have a G800 with the spoon pickups, the wooden bottom box (Rautenkarton) and mine has no traction tires (1951 or 1952).
On mine, there is a 4 steps relay mounted in the tender with a rear push button to change direction.

Normally you have this sequence (each step triggered by a 24 VAC pulse):
- stop with lights on
- forward
- stops with lights on
- reverse

Now what is the problem?
- if you hear a buzz sound in the tender, chances are the spring is missing, too loose, too tight
- if you dont hear it, the relay may be disconnected

The direction relay in these years looks like this
Sans titre.png
The contact in fig 6 is a later addition to avoid the jumps by direction change and may very not be on your model
The spring is Märklin #7194 and can be found easily at all Märklin shops

Here is my G800
G800.png
I hope this helps
Cheers from France
Jean
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Offline tworail  
#38 Posted : 30 September 2023 23:30:46(UTC)
tworail


Joined: 01/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 241
Location: Ontario, Canada
Hi Jean,

Thank you for the response. The odd thing about this problem is that the 24VAC pulses/or pushes of the button on the rear of the tender result in the loco moving in the forward direction, only, as if it had 1 mode. So send a pulse, moves forward, send another one still moves forward. No stop with lights on mode, or reverse. Something must be really off. The spring is intact and appears to be doing it's job properly. I am trying to find a picture of the wiring in the tender to confirm it's correct, I tried searching the FAM archives but have not yet found a picture of the tender with the case off.

I see you are a member there, I am a longtime lurker, and have been meaning to post an intro since the site has played a critical role in fueling the passion around my old model railways.

regards
John

Offline JohnjeanB  
#39 Posted : 30 September 2023 23:58:38(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,052
Location: Paris, France
Hi John
The wiring is very simple
- one side of the relay's solenoid is to frame (attachment screw) while the other one goes to the sliders
- there are 2 contacts connecting to frame ground though a partly conductive drum. Each of those contacts goes to the inductor coil (one for each direction, only one coil activated at any given time except in the "stop with lights position where none is connected.

What could happen?
- you hear the relay but apparently the drum is not rotating. There are a few possible causes
- the ratchet is not returning fully home so as to be able to grip the next tooth to rotate the drum by 1/8 of a turn
- the contacts push too strongly on the drum preventing it to rotate (less likely)
- the spring is not the good one and prevent the ratchet to reach the teeth wheel (often the cause)

Note: in normal operation the push button on the tender is spring-mounted so that it does not interfere with the relay operation. The push button MUST BE fully extended during operation (and not pushed by the relay.

Cheers
Jean
Offline kaav800  
#40 Posted : 01 October 2023 11:20:59(UTC)
kaav800

Norway   
Joined: 05/07/2019(UTC)
Posts: 43
Location: Rogaland
Hello !!
Yes you have to clean the contacts of the reley,and the spring.But if this not helps meashure the coilwindings.If one wire from the coil is broken (often happens) the loko will only
go i one direction. The coilwindings 2pcs goes from the reley to the coil,and both are connected to the engine schield on the rigt side.
I think the collector is ok,or it wouldent work at all ?? (not shure)


Best regards kaav800
Offline kiwiAlan  
#41 Posted : 01 October 2023 14:03:48(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,053
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
I wonder if someone has rewired to loco in the hope it would work on DC?

Or maybe they just didn't understand how it should work.

There is a schematic diagram for the analogue locos on page three of the Marklin service manual and some information on adjusting the reverse unit on page six (the picture shows a much later version of the reverse unit).



Offline tworail  
#42 Posted : 02 October 2023 01:33:41(UTC)
tworail


Joined: 01/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 241
Location: Ontario, Canada
I was able to fix the loco issues this afternoon after a bit more troubleshooting.

There were two problems - 1) the contact for reverse was not touching the drum sufficiently. Easily fixed. 2) as I prepared to do some soldering I found that the wire from the forward contact was actually severed, but just outside of the plastic wiring loom, so it was almost impossible to see, and added to the confusion since it was still soldered to the contact. The previous owner didn't notice this and soldered the loose end coming from the loco to the middle portion between the two contacts, resulting in it being hardwired to run in forwards for every step. I did a simple splice and covered the joint in heat shrink tubing, a complete rewire from the loco side was not really necessary for my purposes.

Thanks for everyone's help in tracking this down, the loco now runs perfectly in forward and reverse, and I added a few new troubleshooting skills.

thanks 2 users liked this useful post by tworail
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