Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline iandoc  
#1 Posted : 04 April 2013 10:37:41(UTC)
iandoc

New Zealand   
Joined: 25/07/2010(UTC)
Posts: 29
Location: Upper Hutt
Hi all. I have an analogue 3065 here that won't reverse or operate its telex. It runs fine forward. Neither telex coupling lifts in any of the rotator positions.

Any tips or ideas as to trouble shooting and fixing?

Many thanks
Offline RayF  
#2 Posted : 04 April 2013 10:52:03(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Hi Ian,

Did it suddenly stop working or have you just obtained it and it was already like that?

These locos have a four position reversing switch for the two directions with and without the telex. You seem to have observed it going through the rotator positons. Does it move forward in all four positions or only in one position?
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by RayF
Offline iandoc  
#3 Posted : 04 April 2013 11:13:59(UTC)
iandoc

New Zealand   
Joined: 25/07/2010(UTC)
Posts: 29
Location: Upper Hutt
Hi Ray, Have had it a while but only just getting to look at it. It drives forward on one position only. Otherwise it clicks and buzzes but not with any action.
Offline drwhitl  
#4 Posted : 04 April 2013 12:03:01(UTC)
drwhitl


Joined: 12/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 97
Location: Auckland,
Originally Posted by: iandoc Go to Quoted Post
Hi Ray, Have had it a while but only just getting to look at it. It drives forward on one position only. Otherwise it clicks and buzzes but not with any action.


G'day Ian,
Sounds like the drum contacts are dirty or (more likely still) there's not enough tension on the little spring contacts to make a decent contact with the contacts on the reversing drum. Pressing lightly on each of the springs in turn while the loco is "buzzing" but not going ought to prove the point. Two of the springs control the loco direction and the third one is for operating the telex.

The springs are a little difficult to put more tension on, because you need to bend them slightly toward the drum, but the drum prevents this. The most satisfactory way to do it is to loosen the reverse unit securing screw a little and the whole drum assembly can then move slightly toward you allowing room for the drum to slide back and thus making space to tension the contacts. There's a serious "gotcha" here though: Under the securing screw there's a small solder lug. You MUST hold this lug so that it can't turn even the slightest bit when you loosen or tighten that screw. The solder lug has the inner end of the reverse unit coil winding terminating on to it. If you let that lug revolve it'll break the winding termination, nearly always so close to the coil that you can't rescue it. At that stage you throw the whole damn thing over your left shoulder and start again with a new one!! Mad Actually it's probably better to un-solder the winding termination from the lug while you unscrew teh screw, but it's pretty fine stuff. Be really careful.

The other possibility is that the motor coil winding for the reverse direction is crook, but that's not so likely and wouldn't explain the Telex not working

cheers
Dennis
thanks 6 users liked this useful post by drwhitl
Offline RayF  
#5 Posted : 04 April 2013 17:08:57(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Thanks Dennis, you beat me to it. That's exactly the advice I was going to give Ian. Smile
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline OMAC  
#6 Posted : 19 April 2023 05:21:49(UTC)
OMAC

New Zealand   
Joined: 14/07/2021(UTC)
Posts: 32
Location: Whangarei, Auckland
Good info here.
Question?
Is the wire for the coil that you speak of the first turn or the last turn on the coil?

Cheers Owen
Offline JohnjeanB  
#7 Posted : 19 April 2023 18:23:28(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,084
Location: Paris, France
Hi Owen
Like with other types of Märklin direction relays, there are 2 wires
Here is my 3065 relay (removed from the loco because it is digitalized
The relay is in 3 parts:
- the main relay subassembly (coil, contact holder)
- the sheet-metal axle holder
- the "drum" arranging connections between the contacts and the frame (0)


The 2 coil wires are shown here in red
TelexRelay.png

It is important to remember that for clarity, the 3 parts are not shown exactly in their normal location.
The axle holder is attached to the loco frame by the same crew attaching the main relay subassembly.
That same screw brings also the frame ground to both the coil and the axle holder

Note: the horizontal contact, on top of the picture is to avoid the "jump" when direction overvoltage is sent

I hope I am not too confusing
Cheers
Jean
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline OMAC  
#8 Posted : 19 April 2023 22:44:09(UTC)
OMAC

New Zealand   
Joined: 14/07/2021(UTC)
Posts: 32
Location: Whangarei, Auckland
Thanks again Jean.

I had worked out most of the connections, but it is good to have them confirmed by your photo.

I have got the pulse, lights, forward telex and forward motion working so far but reverse and reverse telex is just a hum.

I think the connection fingers for reverse and telex are not making good contact or the drum is warn out.

I think I had better try and source a replacement

Cheers Owen
Offline JohnjeanB  
#9 Posted : 20 April 2023 12:28:37(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,084
Location: Paris, France
Hi Owen
If you remove the screw attaching the relay paying attention not to break the thin wire labelled Relay coil frame (ground)
then it becomes easy to move a little away the drum from the contacts, allowing you to bend them slightly to add more pressure to the the drum.
Sounds complicated but with a delicate hand it is rather easy.

ATTENTION: from what you describe:
- it is NOT sure the Relay is the culprit.
- only one Telex is wired correctly and the rear one is NOT.
- the Telex contact works fine, don't modify it.
- Not clear where the humming sound comes from (motor or Telex?) If this is from the motor then Brushes may need replacing.
- Check the rear Telex wiring: 2 wires One is connected to the Relay and the other is connected to the Motor Hot point (see my picture of the relay).

Cheers
Jean
Offline OMAC  
#10 Posted : 20 April 2023 13:27:26(UTC)
OMAC

New Zealand   
Joined: 14/07/2021(UTC)
Posts: 32
Location: Whangarei, Auckland
Hi Jean,
I realised I had another 3031 in my collection that has the same reverse unit and works fine.

The reverse unit with telex is different to your picture and the same as the one I am working on. So I copied the wiring and bingo forward, reverse, lights, pulse and telex all work.
However the telex although working remains activated in all 4 steps.

Any advise ??
' I think it might be the finger contact touching continuously somehow.

Anyway I will keep working on it. It has been a great learning curve.

Cheers Owen
Offline JohnjeanB  
#11 Posted : 20 April 2023 14:49:34(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,084
Location: Paris, France
Hi Owen
Originally Posted by: OMAC Go to Quoted Post
The reverse unit with telex is different to your picture

Yes the 3031 has been manufactured during decades from 1958 and the relay changed in aspect but not in principle over the years.
The first relay featured a real drum with metal sections
The relay's picture I provided dates from late 80's
This loco is fun. Later I installed a Sound Märklin decoder. Man! was it crowded!
Cheers
Jean

Offline 1borna  
#12 Posted : 21 April 2023 20:00:49(UTC)
1borna

Croatia   
Joined: 21/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,340
Location: Hrvatska
If the telex is constantly active, does it mean that its contact is constantly pressed against the roller, or is one of the wires that goes to the gearbox somewhere in contact with ground?
Offline BenP  
#13 Posted : 21 April 2023 21:19:40(UTC)
BenP

United States   
Joined: 04/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 344
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
Originally Posted by: 1borna Go to Quoted Post
If the telex is constantly active, does it mean that its contact is constantly pressed against the roller, or is one of the wires that goes to the gearbox somewhere in contact with ground?


First, old style telex always on is bad for the wire spool, which overheats and may melt the plastic. It should work momentarily, so either there is, as you said, permanent ground (broken wire/connection perhaps) or, if software driven, you must set a timer for on/off (3 sec or so).
Ben
Digital M (+ some K) track layout with mostly vintage rolling stock and accessories, and small Z scale layout.
https://youtube.com/play...0kgVYbh0CeDTF-bYXoD_2-V9
Offline OMAC  
#14 Posted : 21 April 2023 21:29:54(UTC)
OMAC

New Zealand   
Joined: 14/07/2021(UTC)
Posts: 32
Location: Whangarei, Auckland
Will check both suggestions
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#15 Posted : 22 April 2023 02:09:32(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: iandoc Go to Quoted Post
Any tips or ideas as to trouble shooting and fixing?


These are pretty stinky units to fix - been battling with the reversing units on my 3015 Crocodile and 3027 BR44. I've got the 3027 going (although with no telex at this stage), the 3015 remains a work in progress.

You can come and fix mine when you're finished!

Should the worst come to the worst you can still get new reverse units, although the only readily available place is on ebay and they are probably worth more than the 3065...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/285122648831

(note that there are several types - you could look at seller TEE-103 for used parts - TEE-103 Ebay Shop)
Offline OMAC  
#16 Posted : 22 April 2023 02:29:44(UTC)
OMAC

New Zealand   
Joined: 14/07/2021(UTC)
Posts: 32
Location: Whangarei, Auckland
Update.
I have replaced both of the Telex wires and tested them to ensure there are no sorts. Both work fine.

I have discovered that the drum looks to be warn out also the fingers also look to be a bit suspect. So a replacement Telex/Reverse unit is required.

By chance has any members got some of these sitting on a shelf that are no longer required?

Maybe I should get 2 and keep one as a spare

Cheers Owen
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by OMAC
Offline JohnjeanB  
#17 Posted : 22 April 2023 12:06:07(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,084
Location: Paris, France
Hi Owen
These units don't get worn in a million years. Has someone tampered with the unit, used sand paper (previous owner)?
If not, the unit is not worn out.
Just my opinion
Jean
Offline OMAC  
#18 Posted : 23 April 2023 22:12:24(UTC)
OMAC

New Zealand   
Joined: 14/07/2021(UTC)
Posts: 32
Location: Whangarei, Auckland
Thanks Jean
I think you are right. The drum looks fine. Must be a short somewhere. Will keep checking with the multimeter.

Cheers Owen
Users browsing this topic
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2024, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.995 seconds.