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Offline einotuominen  
#1 Posted : 30 March 2023 10:53:07(UTC)
einotuominen

Finland   
Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 378
Location: Kaarina
Hi,

I bought a second hand threeway turnout some time ago. It has the embedded decoder and two drives/point motors that both are shorted from the end switch.

There have been a small issues with it almost all the time of one of the drives stucking with a buzzing sound, that I have been able to get over with by just switching the directions a couple of times.

Today however the whole track short circuited and I located the source to the threeway turnout.

I took both drives off and tested them with AC current from a transformer. They work great, but the other one had some slight contact issues. Not really sure if there's anything wrong with it or did I just had a shaky hand when trying to make contact with the loose wires from the transformer...

Anyways, I put the turnout back to the track but only with one drive (the first one of the addresses). No short circuit and the decoder switches the drive back and forth. So encouraged by this, I put back the other drive too. No short circuit anymore, but I'm struggling to get the turnout to switch to straight position. After a few seconds I can smell something burning and I stop the track.

The other drive (second in the address range) has burned.

So I install a new one, but try to be smart and not short the ends before I've tested this.

With the new drive installed, I can not get straight position anymore. Only left and right. So I unscrew the replacement drive so that I can see how the arm is moving. No matter what position I put either of the addresses (red or green) the arm does not "lock" but goes back and forth. Can't hear the clicking sound either.

However I'm not sure how the mechanics in the threeway turnout is supposed to work...

So the question is: Is the other drive supposed to do this or is it clearly a defected decoder that I have?

Best regards,

-Eino

Offline David Dewar  
#2 Posted : 30 March 2023 12:05:30(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,333
Location: Scotland
Is the turnout working if you change it manually using the levers on the turnout. Maybe the motors are trying to turn but somthing is stopping them going to the centre.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline einotuominen  
#3 Posted : 30 March 2023 12:09:36(UTC)
einotuominen

Finland   
Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 378
Location: Kaarina
Originally Posted by: David Dewar Go to Quoted Post
Is the turnout working if you change it manually using the levers on the turnout. Maybe the motors are trying to turn but somthing is stopping them going to the centre.


Hi,

Yes it works manually, very smoothly.

-Eino
Offline JohnjeanB  
#4 Posted : 30 March 2023 12:22:19(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,084
Location: Paris, France
Hi Eino
I have 9 of these 3-way points 24630.
Mechanically they are like two independent points.
I had (rarely) in the past to open the protection piece underneath (very carefully unlatching the locks). Carefull as parts break easily especially with old C track pieces.
To be honest I had more often issues with 24624 DSSs (but even this is rare (3 times over 20 years on 10 pieces and often my fault - cables in the way of blade springs)
At this stage, this is about removing external parts (ballast stones, etc) and to lubricate ONLY with DRY Teflon.

I suppose this is not your case but sometimes this is about improper installation of the motor (motor lever bumpring on casing or the buckle not around the turnout pin.)
Cheers
Jean
Offline einotuominen  
#5 Posted : 30 March 2023 13:01:04(UTC)
einotuominen

Finland   
Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 378
Location: Kaarina
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post

Mechanically they are like two independent points.


Hi Jean,

So from this I understand that both drives should move all the way and lock into position. The other one currently does not and for that reason it won't change the blades position.

One drive burned and a new one out of the box (with end switches still intact) won't also work the way I described above, so I think the decoder is gone.

The motors, both the burnt one and this new one, were tested with a transformer, so both of them were/are working ones.

BR,
-Eino
Offline JohnjeanB  
#6 Posted : 30 March 2023 14:02:15(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,084
Location: Paris, France
So, maybe the issue is with the turnout mechanism.
The previous owner sold it because (maybe) it was not working fine.
Can the TO operate manually? Is it hard to operate or smooth?
Sometimes, it does not take much to create problems with those (one grain of ballast).
Sadly opening those mechanisms is a bit tricky. Braking the latching pins must be avoided at all times. Brute force not to be used here.
As I said before, once they are working you never have to come back to them.
Here is a flavor of them in operation (5 consecutive triple turnouts between the branch line and the station). They are not the prettiest but working very fine.


Good luck with the repair
Jean
Offline David Dewar  
#7 Posted : 30 March 2023 14:13:25(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,333
Location: Scotland
The only way is to try another decoder or try what you have with another turnout. I have had one decoder fail but this was after many years. You can test the motors easily but not sure how you can test the decoder out of a turnout. It is quite expensive to replace the decoder but this might be necessary. If the turnout does move to all situations easily then it should be ok.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by David Dewar
Offline einotuominen  
#8 Posted : 30 March 2023 14:29:21(UTC)
einotuominen

Finland   
Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 378
Location: Kaarina
So I found a new decoder for 30 € and in order to remedy the shipping costs, I picked an mSD3 also, as I still have a couple of locos with FX decoders BigGrin BigGrin

The mechanics are fine and very smooth manually. Also the solenoid point motos operate very well when giving current from transformer.

So let's see what will happen. It normally takes about 6-10 days for DHL to get the stuff from Germany here to Finland.

After that I have 1/2 new motors and a new decoder... So it would be strange if it didn't start working as mechanics seem to be just fine.

Thanks guys!

BR,
-Eino
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by einotuominen
Offline JohnjeanB  
#9 Posted : 30 March 2023 15:17:00(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,084
Location: Paris, France
Hi Eino, David
This brings us to an other possibility: often, when a TO motor burns, the decoder output burns also.
So we need to know which is which:
- test the TO in analogue mode (16VAC) and see if it works
- If it does, then indeed there is a (strong) possibility the decoder "has a problem".
It may work on some of its outputs and not for others.
Unless you have a floor / carpet layout, it is better to use conventional decoders (60832).
Replacing the power stage on a switch decoder calls for knowledge (where is it?), spares (the power IC) and a special SMC soldering / desoldering station with controlled air flow and controlled temperature. I did it for old 6083 but not for SMD (Surface Mounted Devices).
Jean
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by JohnjeanB
Offline David Dewar  
#10 Posted : 30 March 2023 20:48:14(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,333
Location: Scotland
Using a 60832 requires wiring. I would stay with the under track decoder which is easy to connect to the turnout with any soldering etc
I would expect when you fit the new decoder all should be well and if not it must surely be the turnout that has a fault.
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by David Dewar
Offline einotuominen  
#11 Posted : 06 April 2023 15:45:57(UTC)
einotuominen

Finland   
Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 378
Location: Kaarina
So the new decoder arrived today and now everything works as it should.

However I disconnected the lanterns because that was one of the scenarios that did not cross my mind before. However I'm quite sure they got nothing to do with this. I'm gonna later connect them to accessory DC instead of track power.

-Eino
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