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Online Bryan  
#1 Posted : 08 February 2023 03:39:49(UTC)
Bryan

Australia   
Joined: 08/09/2010(UTC)
Posts: 209
Location: Bowral, NSW, Australia
Dear All

I have just been able to ask Marklin about the current 32 bit m*D/3 decoders and mapping to production decoder specs. As most are aware, currently you can download the sound files and motor profiles to a mSD/3 decoder, quite easily, with the decoder tool. The question to Marklin was, do these end up the exactly same as the original production decoders. For example, I recently repaired a 39095 BR95 loco, that had a burnt out decoder. The answer from Marklin is no, there are still a lot of CV changes to the generic mSD/3 decoder to be made. I asked how do you work out these CV changes. The answer from them is, with much experience, you learn how to.

The main point as I can see it, if you have a current loco with a decoder burnt out, you cannot relying on just Marklin downloads to create a exact replacement decoder. Very important point for repairs, to thus avoid burnt out LEDs, Telex, etc.

David
Offline JohnjeanB  
#2 Posted : 08 February 2023 12:38:28(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,084
Location: Paris, France
Hi David
I replaced a number of decoders with mSD3 and Märklin "Projects".
Assuming you have a CS3 to program the decoder, the mapping and configuration are easy to do later and take little time

Märklin projects
- they focus on sounds but the motor configuration may change
- before using the loco, configure the motor type AFTER having loaded the project
- overall this use of mSD3 and a project is cheaper, more flexible (can change later the sounds).
- since mapping (assigning physical or sound functions to function slots (F0 to F31) is very easy on a CS3, then it becomes fun to configure
- sometime you don't find the exact reference for your loco but may pick equivalents

Märklin response is typically German: they don't want to have a legal argument about things so there are a few CV to adjust but this is not the end of the world.

One last point, some locos come with a wheel sensor to synchronize (happened to me on a BR45) and with the mSD3, I was able to synchronise the chuff chuff sound with the number and position of pistons.
Cheers
Jean
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Offline bph  
#3 Posted : 12 February 2023 18:03:11(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 985
Originally Posted by: Bryan Go to Quoted Post
Dear All

I have just been able to ask Marklin about the current 32 bit m*D/3 decoders and mapping to production decoder specs. As most are aware, currently you can download the sound files and motor profiles to a mSD/3 decoder, quite easily, with the decoder tool. The question to Marklin was, do these end up the exactly same as the original production decoders. For example, I recently repaired a 39095 BR95 loco, that had a burnt out decoder. The answer from Marklin is no, there are still a lot of CV changes to the generic mSD/3 decoder to be made. I asked how do you work out these CV changes. The answer from them is, with much experience, you learn how to.

The main point as I can see it, if you have a current loco with a decoder burnt out, you cannot relying on just Marklin downloads to create a exact replacement decoder. Very important point for repairs, to thus avoid burnt out LEDs, Telex, etc.

David


Hi
they could perhaps refer to the CabMode (mfx+)etc, but that doesn't work on retrofit mSD3 anyway. Or that it is a general disclaimer made to make you check and correct any errors Marklin made.... ;).
Some years back the decoder in my 37797 died, (no I had not done anything with it ;). I phoned Marklin customer service first (since it was under warranty), and they told me that I could just install the decoder project on an msd3 decoder and test that decoder on the train. and if that worked I could just send in the decoder only for"repair". So everything worked fine with the msd3 replacement decoder without any changes to the project. so the original decoder went to Marklin and I received a new factory decoder for that train. while I waited for the repair it operated as normal with the mDS3.
I have also done some "reprogramming" of factory-fitted decoders and eg on the br 06. I compared every mfx setting readable on the CS3 to the decoder project before I did the "reprogramming". the setting on the decoder matched the project that was available for download on the product page, but it was different from the one received through mDecoderTool. (cab mode/mfx+ is also available after reprogramming). when Marklin started to include a more advanced "light changeover and generator" function they used a "flip flop set" logic but forgot to include a "flip flop reset". so the "flip flop" remained "active" even after the function was turned off. To run it off you had to cut off power to the locomotive. I have seen this on a couple of projects but it's solved on later ones. And other times Marklin uses different motor settings on the same motor (same part number).
The br 212 37009 also has two different decoder projects. (probably because of the different decoder boards used).......
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by bph
Offline Kiko  
#4 Posted : 30 March 2023 02:15:11(UTC)
Kiko

Canada   
Joined: 13/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 55
Location: Ottawa, ON
Hello All,

I know that this thread has been dormant for awhile, but my question is somewhat related (sorry if I'm stepping "out of bounds"...).

I have programmed many ESU LokSound decoders for my older Marklin locos, but I would like to be able to change a few things in my newer Marklin MFX/MFX+ locos. One thing that I would like to do is replace the connection to the smoke generator with a connection to the new Marklin telex couplers (#E117993). I don't use smoke and telex would add a lot of "play value" for my grand kids when they visit.

If I purchase the Marklin Decoder Programmer (#60971), would I be able to reprogram an MFX/MFX+ decoder to do the "telex dance routine"? Would I need to change the decoder to a new mSD3 or are the Marklin factory decoders programmer accessible (i.e., not "locked")? BTW, I don't have a CS2 or CS3 because I use the ECoS.

Thank you very much for any assistance.
Andry
Andry
// Marklin HO K track; ECoS; TrainController Gold; Marklin & ESU decoders; Arduino controlled Switches, Semaphores & Accessories (DCC); Win 11 //
Offline bph  
#5 Posted : 30 March 2023 13:30:40(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 985
Originally Posted by: Kiko Go to Quoted Post
Hello All,

I know that this thread has been dormant for awhile, but my question is somewhat related (sorry if I'm stepping "out of bounds"...).

I have programmed many ESU LokSound decoders for my older Marklin locos, but I would like to be able to change a few things in my newer Marklin MFX/MFX+ locos. One thing that I would like to do is replace the connection to the smoke generator with a connection to the new Marklin telex couplers (#E117993). I don't use smoke and telex would add a lot of "play value" for my grand kids when they visit.

yes, you can do that, as long as it is possible to fit the telex. and note that sometimes not all aux outputs are used from the factory. eg there might be an unused AUX and even with a free solder pad. Then it should be quite easy to map eg the aux 3 to F1 and then you can map the aux 1 (smoke generator) to eg a free high f function eg 28 and save that for later, just in case. But make sure that the aux is amplified, is quite easy to spot unless it a brand-new decoder where they have changed the design slightly. eg take a look at this post, the principle is the same: https://www.marklin-users.net/forum/posts/t45809-Marklin-39052-BR-05-AUX-3-and-current-conducting-coupler. Take a look at how many physical outputs that are used in the decoder configuration, that should give you an indication if there might be a free AUX.

Also note that on some newer locomotives, the smoke generator is on an optical relay, giving track voltage to the smoke generator. eg on the 39781 (the current conducting coupler is also on a relay in this). so be careful not to give the telex power over for a "long" time.
In these cases, the relay is on the decoder board and not the decoder. Also some more explanation in the link above.


Originally Posted by: Kiko Go to Quoted Post
If I purchase the Marklin Decoder Programmer (#60971), would I be able to reprogram an MFX/MFX+ decoder to do the "telex dance routine"? Would I need to change the decoder to a new mSD3 or are the Marklin factory decoders programmer accessible (i.e., not "locked")? BTW, I don't have a CS2 or CS3 because I use the ECoS.


the Marklin Decoder Programmer 60971 can not program factory-fitted mfx+ decoders. For that, you need a CS3/2 connected to a pc and the decoder tool software together with the decoder project Marklin has released.

But you shod be able to add the telex dance routine on the Ecos, but I don't have the Ecos so I can't tell you how it's done. But I have added it to locos using only the cs3. And the decoder must have support for logical (AND) functions, I'm not sure when that was introduced. so I don't think it's possible to add telex dance to first generation mfx decoders.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by bph
Offline Kiko  
#6 Posted : 30 March 2023 17:39:22(UTC)
Kiko

Canada   
Joined: 13/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 55
Location: Ottawa, ON
Hello BPH,

Thank you very much for that informative reply. I will investigate the options and read the linked pages. Since I don't have a CS3, only ECoS and LokProgrammer, I'll have to look into my MFX decoders and see if there are any possibilities.

Thanks,
Andry
Andry
// Marklin HO K track; ECoS; TrainController Gold; Marklin & ESU decoders; Arduino controlled Switches, Semaphores & Accessories (DCC); Win 11 //
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Kiko
bph
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