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Offline Toosmall  
#1 Posted : 25 March 2023 06:31:18(UTC)
Toosmall

Australia   
Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC)
Posts: 608
Location: Sydney
My question: How to improve traction for Z gauge ICE locomotives?

Answer: Improving traction for Z gauge ICE locomotives can be achieved through several methods, including:

1. Adding weight: One of the simplest ways to improve traction is to add weight


My comment to Chat answer:

The easiest solution is to bypass the diodes. Second is traction tyres. Third is adding lead, but that has to be done with care due to toxicity issues especially for children.



Chat reply:

I apologize for my previous response, as it was not accurate or appropriate. Bypassing diodes is not a recommended solution, as it can damage the locomotive and pose safety risks. Additionally, adding lead t the locomotive is not recommended due to toxicity concerns, especially for children.

The use of traction tires is a common and effective solution for improving traction in Z gauge ICE locomotives. Traction tires are small rubber tires that can be added to the locomotive's wheels to increase friction and improve traction. They are easy to install and can be purchased from model train stores or online retailers.

Another solution is to improve the wheel profile of the locomotive. Using wheels with a larger diameter or a different profile can improve traction, especially on curves. This can be done by replacing the existing wheels with aftermarket wheels designed for improved traction.

Upgrading the motor in the locomotive is also a viable solution. A more powerful motor can provide more torque, which can help the locomotive overcome resistance and maintain traction. However, this may require some technical knowledge and skill to install.

Overall, it is important to use safe and effective methods for improving traction in Z gauge ICE locomotives. Traction tires and wheel upgrades are recommended solutions, while bypassing diodes and adding lead are not recommended due to safety and toxicity concerns.



I didn't reply, couldn't be bothered:


Bypassing diode is the best solution with ICE Z gauge locomotives. Adding lead is good but it really is painful due to the size of Z gauge trains. About 20 grams is about as much as one can do, but it is a really painful & testing task. Using platinum would be better due to specific gravity, but it has a price issue.

Traction tyres are not possible on virtually all Z gauge locos. I have custom machined grooves, an absolute painful task on every level, in the wheels & used custom traction tyres.

Replacing motor is possible from 3 core to 5 core, but it doesn't make any difference. 3 core has more than enough power. 5 core only really makes a smoother engine. One is running 2 locos anyway so 3 core has absolutely no issues.


So the answer I got was next to useless.


Traction tyres are less than 1mm width. It is also important which axle you put them on so they push down on to the rail due to torque build up.



Someone else asked Chat & the reply was


Other person: Actually, I asked exactly the same question just now.


Chat reply:

Improving traction for Z gauge ICE locomotives can be challenging due to the small size of the Z scale model trains. However, there are a few things that can be done to improve their traction and performance:

1. Weight: Adding weight to the locomotive can improve traction. This can be done by adding weights to the locomotive's body, or by adding a heavy metal chassis.

2. Traction Tires: Installing traction tires on the locomotive's drive wheels can improve traction on the track. Traction tires are small rubber bands that wrap around the drive wheels, increasing friction between the wheel and the track.

3. Cleanliness: Keeping the track and wheels clean can improve traction. Dirt and debris on the wheels can reduce their grip on the track, so it's important to regularly clean the wheels and track.

4. Wheel Configuration: Changing the wheel configuration can also improve traction. Switching to a different wheel arrangement, such as a 4-6-2 or a 2-8-2, can improve the locomotive's pulling power and reduce wheel slippage.

5. Digital Command Control (DCC): Using DCC to control the locomotive's speed and acceleration can also improve traction. DCC allows for smoother acceleration and deceleration, reducing the likelihood of wheel slippage.

Overall, improving the traction of Z gauge ICE locomotives can be challenging due to the small size of the trains, but by experimenting with these tips, you can improve their performance and enjoy running your trains.


So basically all BS!

4 axle diesel or electric locos are the best. Steam locos of any configuration are the worst as only actually 2 axles are on the rail. All the in-between driving axles are raised about 0.5mm.

Typically you only have 30grams mass trying to pull a half descent length of train. Challenging even on a level layout.

Chat probably needs 3+ decades of experience!



So if you are bored to tears you could ask exactly the same question & see if Chat provides better answers as it is supposed to learn:

How to improve traction for Z gauge ICE locomotives?


thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Toosmall
Offline Toosmall  
#2 Posted : 26 March 2023 01:02:43(UTC)
Toosmall

Australia   
Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC)
Posts: 608
Location: Sydney
A few photo to clarify the ICE upgrades (posted in other threads).

60233.jpg

63061.jpg

53 grams with lead:
60221.jpg

67063.jpg

I'm sure most of you have looked at this video of 14 carriages. Front loco has traction tyres, both have lead, all the carriages have the lighting & electric connection removed to remove mass.

ICE.mov (2,462kb) downloaded 148 time(s).


But if Chat had half a brain it would have done research on the specific nuances of Z gauge. Not difficult stuff!
Offline xxup  
#3 Posted : 26 March 2023 04:01:07(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,457
Location: Australia
The thing about AI is:

Garbage in = Garbage out.

It may get good one day, but I think we are still a long way off the AI that we see in science fiction shows like Star Trek.

Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
Offline parakiet  
#4 Posted : 26 March 2023 22:38:09(UTC)
parakiet

Belgium   
Joined: 20/02/2017(UTC)
Posts: 280
Location: Flanders!
i'm wondering, is all that lead necessary with traction tires?
Offline Toosmall  
#5 Posted : 27 March 2023 03:47:15(UTC)
Toosmall

Australia   
Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC)
Posts: 608
Location: Sydney
I have done most tests with the 8820 & 8821 diesels as they are the easiest to work, adding carriages is easier, the ICE connector is a bit irritating to put it mildly. The combination of both lead & traction tyres is the best, rather than one or the other.

I doubt many have the tools for machining grooves into wheels. Doubt I will ever do any more, it is a challenging task. I only stated doing it originally as someone suggested it, so thought I would give it a go. I did destroy a few wheels in the process of trial & error.

Putting the traction tyres on the front of the rear bogie is the best place for your normal forward direction. It's more in the centre & the front of the bogies kick down due to toque build up. So a gram or two extra on the tyres.

There is heaps of power in the motors & you still spin the wheels, so you won't stall the motor.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Toosmall
Offline hxmiesa  
#6 Posted : 27 March 2023 10:05:45(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,519
Location: Spain
I just want to comment on the ChatGPT part; I was researching information for an Interzone consist; What coaches, what locomotive. As I know next to nothing about DR material, I wanted to see if ChatGPT cold help me out, but it wasnt capable of giving me a combination of coaches (the easiest part, I woudl think).
I was surprised that it wasnt able to tell me ANYthing about the coaches. Nothing. Zilch!
-Or I wasnt able to formulate the question correctly...

For finding a suitable locomotive (I wanted a DR engine that would circulate partly on DB tracks), it was more generous, but I was continuously given mixes of DB and DR engines. Freight loco and Passenger locos.
(To be clear; I was specifying that I wanted to know about interzone passenger trains with DR locos)

"Maybe" the subject is too marginal for the AI... hehe... ;-)
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by hxmiesa
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