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Offline mbarreto  
#1 Posted : 26 December 2022 18:37:46(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,257
Hi,

I am again an Insider and so I have access to the pdf versions of the Insider News. On the 5/2022 issue
I read an article about the tratcive power of the new Märklin locomotives. It is a very intersting article.
They say that the power of the new locomotives isengineered according to the specifications provided by the product manager.
So the H0 locomotive is tested for a certain amount of load and pull it on a 5% grandient.
They use wagons with a load of aproximately 200g on each wagon. From the photo it seemed to me they use also the new couplers.
Typically a locomotive must pull 8 to 10 such wagons, but that depends on the specifications.

They also mention that the specified tractive power for each locomotive isn't related to any of its ancestrors, so for example a modern
BR 44 doesn't have the samebtractive power of an old BR 44.
Relative to this, I am not against in general, although I think most of us, and me for sure, expect to see some heritage from the old
to the new Märklin.
At least for some specific models, like for example the BR 44 and BR 194, I would like the specifications to be at least the same tractive power as the older ones. Alternatively they could design some 2 or 3 specific models just to show impressive tractive power.
I remember some records that were beaton by the Märklin BR194 in the 90ies. Also in the 60ies catalogues (I don't remeber whic at the moment) there was a picture showing an E94 (or BR 194) pulling 60 2 axle tank cars.
It was good the feeling that our models are very powerful. Now I have the feeling the new ones are very good overall but they are not the bulls their ancestors were. :-)

For those of you that can read the article and didn't do it yet, I recommend the reading.

Regards,
Miguel
Best regards,
Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.


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Offline Copenhagen  
#2 Posted : 26 December 2022 22:44:18(UTC)
Copenhagen


Joined: 23/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 369
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Interesting (I'm not an insider). Maybe older models were heavier thus having more traction?
Nevertheless 5% is extreme and even more extreme if 200g extra weight is added to each car.
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Offline Goofy  
#3 Posted : 27 December 2022 06:20:36(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
What about others manufacturer tractive powers too?
Brawas new V 60 can pull about 27 two axles wagons uphill about 1,5% promille.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline river6109  
#4 Posted : 27 December 2022 07:42:36(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,634
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Its a mystery to me why Märklin doesn't add more traction tyres to their locos, there are enough wheels or support the track contacts., it doesn't make sense to me, which happened on previous occasions, a loco just gets stuck because of the lack of rubber tyres, to increase the traction tyres on an extra axle and this would make the world of difference., I'm surprised Märklin can't figure this out them selvesand it doesn't take Einstein to come up with a mathematical calculation or solution., does it really cost too much to put an extra couple of tyres onto the wheels ?, I'm 78 and can't work out their logic

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline Goofy  
#5 Posted : 27 December 2022 10:47:57(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Its a mystery to me why Märklin doesn't add more traction tyres to their locos, there are enough wheels or support the track contacts., it doesn't make sense to me, which happened on previous occasions, a loco just gets stuck because of the lack of rubber tyres, to increase the traction tyres on an extra axle and this would make the world of difference., I'm surprised Märklin can't figure this out them selvesand it doesn't take Einstein to come up with a mathematical calculation or solution., does it really cost too much to put an extra couple of tyres onto the wheels ?, I'm 78 and can't work out their logic

John


Extras traction tyres make more grease on the rail.
Digital locomotives needs wheels contact on the rail.
Extras traction tyres does not help.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline river6109  
#6 Posted : 27 December 2022 14:31:22(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,634
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Its a mystery to me why Märklin doesn't add more traction tyres to their locos, there are enough wheels or support the track contacts., it doesn't make sense to me, which happened on previous occasions, a loco just gets stuck because of the lack of rubber tyres, to increase the traction tyres on an extra axle and this would make the world of difference., I'm surprised Märklin can't figure this out them selvesand it doesn't take Einstein to come up with a mathematical calculation or solution., does it really cost too much to put an extra couple of tyres onto the wheels ?, I'm 78 and can't work out their logic

John


Extras traction tyres make more grease on the rail.
Digital locomotives needs wheels contact on the rail.
Extras traction tyres does not help.



this is a lot fo nonsense, why should therebe more grease and ifthere is stop over oiling your engines, it doesn't matter whether they aredigital or Analog with steam locos therere usually the front axle (track contact), the main Axles (track contact except the wheels with rubber tyres, the back axle (if there is one) (track contact), the tender with 4 axles (track contact), how many more do you need ?
Extra traction tyres does not help ?????, where do you get these information from and which loco are you referring to,
It look like you're just writing a comment(s) without any knowledge or basis of experiences and to be quite honest I don't want to go down the path of a long debate about your unsubstantiated claims.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline Copenhagen  
#7 Posted : 27 December 2022 17:49:19(UTC)
Copenhagen


Joined: 23/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 369
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
To river6109. But if two traction tyres (one in each side) are enough - which it seems like in this thread: https://www.marklin-user...Good-pulling-power-locos
then there is no need for extra tyres.
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Offline mbarreto  
#8 Posted : 27 December 2022 18:56:07(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,257
Originally Posted by: Copenhagen Go to Quoted Post
To river6109. But if two traction tyres (one in each side) are enough - which it seems like in this thread: https://www.marklin-user...Good-pulling-power-locos
then there is no need for extra tyres.


That thread is a good one. I only saw it today and the theme is similar to this thread. I am not sure if both shouldn't be merged.

One thing that puzzles me a bit is about the new steamers having only one axle directly powered by cog wheels and the other tractive axles coupled by side rods.
Of course the side rods will transmit movement to the other wheels/axles and I question if the side rods will not wear fast. These side rod powered wheels don't have tires (as far as I know).



Best regards,
Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.


Offline bph  
#9 Posted : 27 December 2022 21:40:11(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 985
Originally Posted by: mbarreto Go to Quoted Post

One thing that puzzles me a bit is about the new steamers having only one axle directly powered by cog wheels and the other tractive axles coupled by side rods.
Of course the side rods will transmit movement to the other wheels/axles and I question if the side rods will not wear fast. These side rod powered wheels don't have tires (as far as I know).


my guess is that they only have one axle powered directly to make more quiet running and have more realistic see trough chassis (and lover build cost). At least the Märklin P10/39 (3793x/3939x) does have traction rings on rod powered wheels in addition to the ones on the axle that is directly powered.
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Offline dickinsonj  
#10 Posted : 28 December 2022 01:42:36(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post

It look like you're just writing a comment(s) without any knowledge or basis of experiences and to be quite honest I don't want to go down the path of a long debate about your unsubstantiated claims.

John


I agree John.

I have never seen any evidence that traction tires cause "grease" buildup on the rails. I do know that a loco without traction tires can barely move itself, let alone pull a train.

If locos had more traction tires they would almost certainly have more pulling ability, but then they might need more powerful motors. I assume Marklin is balancing this out during their design process to give the best running locos over all. I do wish they used better quality motors considering the cost of their locos, but that is probably not going to ever happen again.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline Goofy  
#11 Posted : 28 December 2022 09:21:36(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
I wouldn´t writing by say rubber tires does not grease the rail.
In fact it does!
There is evidence by märklinist who did reported problems.
To add extra traction tyres does not help.
It will be just same by saying we need extra pick up shoe on the locomotives for optimal contact on the stud contact.
This will not give good reason.
Märklin do already have good tractive powers with just only two traction tires.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline Copenhagen  
#12 Posted : 28 December 2022 10:32:43(UTC)
Copenhagen


Joined: 23/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 369
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
About "greasy" Goofy. One problem is that there is a language barrier. Grease means some kind of fat, oily substance that is be used for lubrication. So Goofy must mean "dirt" when he says "grease". And the dirt particles from the rubber in the traction tyres can mix with all the other dirt particles and substances that cause a thin layer of greasy substance on the tracks.

I haven't seen any evidence that worn off rubber particles from traction tyres is a major problem. If it was we would probably have to change the tyres more often.

Clearly extra tyres could improve traction. But it doesn't seem to be needed and it could cause other potential problems. Some engines even have poor traction because of weight distribution and other issues in construction.

About traction tyres: isn't so that in the DC world lots of locomotives traditionally were without traction tyres? Marklin use it universally because the pickup shoe might cause drag, so extra traction is required - and also because Marklin don't want modellers to have problems with relatively steep gradients. Recently adding traction tyres to DC models may be a standard thing. I have several engines from other brands without traction tyres but traction tyres on one axle seems to become standard.
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Offline Goofy  
#13 Posted : 28 December 2022 16:30:36(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Grease are synonym with dirt.
I can write rubber dirt too but you know exactly what i mean about traction tires.
In fact there is difference with Märklin locomotives with 2 or 4 traction tires.
One example:
Austria crocodile have 4 traction tires.
German diesel have 2 traction tires.
Diesel do have greater tractive power than crocodile.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline Copenhagen  
#14 Posted : 28 December 2022 18:42:37(UTC)
Copenhagen


Joined: 23/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 369
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Grease are synonym with dirt.


It's not. At least to my knowledge. Let the majority of English speaking people here decide if it's true.
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#15 Posted : 28 December 2022 18:53:50(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Grease are synonym with dirt.


I don't know about your native language, but this is certainly not true in English. Grease is something you lubricate things with as in a very thick form of oil, or is a component of animal fat.

Dirt is something else and comes in many forms, most of which are totally unrelated to any form of lubricant.

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Offline marklinist5999  
#16 Posted : 28 December 2022 19:15:48(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,070
Location: Michigan, Troy
Perhaps Goofy means that oil or lubricating grease holds dirt.
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Offline mbarreto  
#17 Posted : 28 December 2022 22:45:01(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,257
About traction tires contributing to dirt or some kind of grease on the rails, I found the video below. It is in German language but
it can be seen with English translation. I still need to see it with more attention (tomorrow), but from what I understood some liquid cleaning products while
not fully evaporated can have an effect on tires that is not good for tires and may leave some dirt on the rails.



regards,
Miguel
Best regards,
Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.


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Offline Copenhagen  
#18 Posted : 28 December 2022 23:22:39(UTC)
Copenhagen


Joined: 23/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 369
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
To the video: I stopped when he tested different cleaning methods on pencil markings on paper!!!

In the beginning, after stating that he is not a scientist, he lists the kinds of dirt or sources of dirt that we find on the tracks. Problem is that without laboratory testing we have no idea what is what and how much of each element there is in the dirt. So in reality it's mostly guessing and the dirt can vary a lot from one location to another, depending on local circumstances.
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Offline Toosmall  
#19 Posted : 29 December 2022 00:05:30(UTC)
Toosmall

Australia   
Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC)
Posts: 608
Location: Sydney
You all sound like a bunch of old women. If you want a serious traction issue then it is Z gauge!

60233.jpg

63061.jpg

60221.jpg

Tyres on the leading loco of a 14 carriage ICE train set solve the majority of the problems. Additional mass helps as well.

ICE.mov (2,462kb) downloaded 148 time(s).

I can't recall any additional issues with custom tyres and Z gauge and dirt.
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Offline bph  
#20 Posted : 29 December 2022 00:11:53(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 985
Originally Posted by: mbarreto Go to Quoted Post
About traction tires contributing to dirt or some kind of grease on the rails, I found the video below. It is in German language but
it can be seen with English translation. I still need to see it with more attention (tomorrow), but from what I understood some liquid cleaning products while
not fully evaporated can have an effect on tires that is not good for tires and may leave some dirt on the rails.

regards,
Miguel


Thanks for the video, quite interesting. ThumpUp
I note that the one Marklin uses are unfortunately missing from the test: Novadur Steam & Clean Dampfdestillat and Reinigungsdestillat, Märklin uses the cleaning product in this video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atwPrEH8wgo.
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Offline mbarreto  
#21 Posted : 29 December 2022 19:49:00(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,257
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post

I note that the one Marklin uses are unfortunately missing from the test: Novadur Steam & Clean Dampfdestillat and Reinigungsdestillat, Märklin uses the cleaning product in this video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atwPrEH8wgo.


Hi,
Hadn't seen this video before, but it is a very interesting one. That liquid seems to be very good, although not cheap.
Probably it is also good to clean the rails.
I am going to test it during January to clean my 3048 and the rails.


Best regards,
Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.


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bph
Offline Goofy  
#22 Posted : 30 December 2022 08:03:53(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: Copenhagen Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Grease are synonym with dirt.


It's not. At least to my knowledge. Let the majority of English speaking people here decide if it's true.


Oil are dirt too when it hit on the rail.
In fact does even smoke fluid are dirt when it hit on the rail.
Rubber tires on the locomotive are getting warm when you drive faster on the layout and leaves grease of dirt.
In this case you also make worse contact on the rail.

Tractive powers on the locomotive does have not to do about numbers of the traction tires on the locomotive.
It´s all matter about locos weight and stronger motor.


H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline Purellum  
#23 Posted : 30 December 2022 09:29:49(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,498
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Tractive powers on the locomotive does have not to do about numbers of the traction tires on the locomotive.
It´s all matter about locos weight and stronger motor.


Thank you BigGrin

This makes life so much easier; now I can forget everything I ever learnt about μ, the coefficient of friction LOL Laugh

Per.

Cool

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
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Offline Goofy  
#24 Posted : 30 December 2022 10:46:48(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post


Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Tractive powers on the locomotive does have not to do about numbers of the traction tires on the locomotive.
It´s all matter about locos weight and stronger motor.


Thank you

This makes life so much easier; now I can forget everything I ever learnt about μ, the coefficient of friction

Per



A diesel locomotive with two traction tires have higher tractive power than crocodile with four traction tires.
Both locomotive have metal body but not the same motor and the weight.
Do you see difference? Flapper

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline Copenhagen  
#25 Posted : 30 December 2022 11:04:34(UTC)
Copenhagen


Joined: 23/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 369
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Copenhagen Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Grease are synonym with dirt.


It's not. At least to my knowledge. Let the majority of English speaking people here decide if it's true.


Oil are dirt too when it hit on the rail.
In fact does even smoke fluid are dirt when it hit on the rail.
Rubber tires on the locomotive are getting warm when you drive faster on the layout and leaves grease of dirt.
In this case you also make worse contact on the rail.

Tractive powers on the locomotive does have not to do about numbers of the traction tires on the locomotive.
It´s all matter about locos weight and stronger motor.




If I spill a drop of oil on the track it's still oil, and should be wiped off.

Do you have evidence of temperature changes in the rubber at different speeds - and how that affects wear and tear?

All that really matters is the fact that cleaning and maintaining the tracks and rolling stock is a good idea to ensure problem free driving. We don't need to focus on a single thing like traction tyres. We should also be aware of not lubricating too much and that a dusty environment will mean more cleaning and things like that.
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Offline Copenhagen  
#26 Posted : 30 December 2022 11:31:53(UTC)
Copenhagen


Joined: 23/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 369
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Purellum Go to Quoted Post


Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Tractive powers on the locomotive does have not to do about numbers of the traction tires on the locomotive.
It´s all matter about locos weight and stronger motor.


Thank you

This makes life so much easier; now I can forget everything I ever learnt about μ, the coefficient of friction

Per



A diesel locomotive with two traction tires have higher tractive power than crocodile with four traction tires.
Both locomotive have metal body but not the same motor and the weight.
Do you see difference? Flapper



I'll tell you what I see: As pointed out they are completely different constructions and cannot be compared simply like that.

(I was tempted to write: The difference I see is stupidity. But I'll keep a civil tone).

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Offline Purellum  
#27 Posted : 30 December 2022 11:58:43(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,498
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Do you see difference?


Yes, apparently the laws of physics are different in Sweden, compared to the rest of the world - again LOL

Per.

Cool
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#28 Posted : 30 December 2022 13:05:44(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Copenhagen Go to Quoted Post

Do you have evidence of temperature changes in the rubber at different speeds - and how that affects wear and tear?


I think Goofy runs his trains on a Formula 1 track, that is why his tyres are getting so hot. Crying BigGrin BigGrin BigGrin BigGrin Scared
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Offline mbarreto  
#29 Posted : 30 December 2022 20:28:56(UTC)
mbarreto

Portugal   
Joined: 18/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,257
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post

...
Tractive powers on the locomotive does have not to do about numbers of the traction tires on the locomotive.
It´s all matter about locos weight and stronger motor.




Loco weight and power of motor are important, but so are tires and also some other factors. This is what we are trying to say to you.

P.S.: I will not pre-heat my track before a loco run to have more traction Flapper LOL



Best regards,
Miguel
Mostly Märklin H0.


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Offline 1borna  
#30 Posted : 30 December 2022 21:26:37(UTC)
1borna

Croatia   
Joined: 21/12/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,340
Location: Hrvatska
Why doesn't Marklin increase the pulling power of the newer locomotives by adding more rubbers? That's because the new engines are smaller and more sensitive to overloading, so they easily burn out if they are under voltage, and they don't turn if the load is too big, and the wheels can't slip because of the tires and the weight of the locomotive itself!

This 60-year-old locomotive has 4 tires and enough power for an extreme climb that newer ones cannot overcome.
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Offline dickinsonj  
#31 Posted : 31 December 2022 01:26:35(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: 1borna Go to Quoted Post
That's because the new engines are smaller and more sensitive to overloading, so they easily burn out if they are under voltage..


Exactly ThumpUp

As models have become more realistic they have acquired smaller and more delicate drivetrains, which can not transfer as much torque. We gave up the robust strength of the old and sturdy Marklins for the beauty of the more perfect models of today. Adding more traction tires would require upgrading the entire drivetrain, including a better motor and Marklin has shown no interest in doing that.

And BTW I don't buy the traction tire cause for dirty track. When I run my trains some freight locos pull a LOT of wagons. The wheels get very dirty and there is only one loco with just two tractions tires.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline river6109  
#32 Posted : 31 December 2022 06:31:49(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,634
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
There are few things Märklin hasn't persued: ball bearings in their 37... series., we run trains (behind the scenes) quite often and I haven't had any problems with grease, dirt, grime, there is a lot a talk about oiling engines and carriages and this of course will transfer eventually to the track and the rubber tyres.
One would think, its only logically to avoid oiling locos and carriages on a regular basis, as this method of maintenance is used it is a never ending job to keep the tracks clean, just because someone said: the locos need oil. and this brings me back to the start of this dilemma: Märklin knew right from the beginning mixing metal with plastic or mixing metal with a different metal won't work, they've tried a few times to eliminate it but gave up.
traction tyres and oil don't mix and you most proably have noticed when your loco lost its pulling power the tyres have had it.
Its a wonderful hobby but why spend all your time cleaning,oiling, cleaning oiling, changing rubber tyres ?

We've spend a lot of money to keep the garage dust free and we've been successful and this is another very important point some people ignore.
all my 36... and 37...series locos have extra rubber tyres, its personal choice but the weight of the locos can support the extra traction tyre to pull more carriage and the motor doesn't seem to suffer from it.

John

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline Goofy  
#33 Posted : 31 December 2022 09:05:19(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,993
When you drive yours locomotives in higher speed the rubber tires are warms up and leaves small particles on the rail.
It is same physical laws by use super sports car by warm up tires before track speed up on the streets.
In fact when you use yours locomotives with more rubber tires you increase dirt on the rail.
Märklin shows up with clean wagons and recommended rail roader to clean the tracks too.
In fact i do see two rubber tires are enough for each of the locomotive on the layout.
Tractive power are lesser important while contact on the rail are.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline Toosmall  
#34 Posted : 31 December 2022 09:36:27(UTC)
Toosmall

Australia   
Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC)
Posts: 608
Location: Sydney
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post

... oiling engines ...

... garage dust free ...


Oiling locos is like oiling old clocks. You need just enough to do the task. A bit too much causes problems.


I have (more to the point had) a room which I try to keep dust to a minimum for computers, it is almost a near impossible task unless that room is positive air pressure with HEPA filter & filters within the room to clean all the dust falling off us every day.

The amount of accumulated dust on CPU heatsinks and the back of fans is frightening.
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Offline Copenhagen  
#35 Posted : 31 December 2022 13:39:38(UTC)
Copenhagen


Joined: 23/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 369
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
When you drive yours locomotives in higher speed the rubber tires are warms up and leaves small particles on the rail.
It is same physical laws by use super sports car by warm up tires before track speed up on the streets.
In fact when you use yours locomotives with more rubber tires you increase dirt on the rail.
Märklin shows up with clean wagons and recommended rail roader to clean the tracks too.
In fact i do see two rubber tires are enough for each of the locomotive on the layout.
Tractive power are lesser important while contact on the rail are.


So I set up a test. Using a Roco Vectron set aside on the plywood board as reference. Room temperature about 20 degrees centigrade (68 fahrenheit). The rubber on the wheel felt neutral to my upper lip, the metal flange felt cold. The test loco was a Piko Vectron hauling three double decker passenger cars. It ran at 86% speed, which is quite fast, for five minutes up and down, around and around. Then I stopped and immediately put a wheel with a tyre to my upper lip. The metal flange felt cold and there was no trace of warmth in the rubber. No heat sensation at all only the same neutral feeling as with the reference Roco set aside.

Goofy. You're pulling things out of thin air (or out of a part of your lower body...).
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Offline river6109  
#36 Posted : 31 December 2022 16:18:47(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,634
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: Toosmall Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post

... oiling engines ...

... garage dust free ...


Oiling locos is like oiling old clocks. You need just enough to do the task. A bit too much causes problems.


I have (more to the point had) a room which I try to keep dust to a minimum for computers, it is almost a near impossible task unless that room is positive air pressure with HEPA filter & filters within the room to clean all the dust falling off us every day.

The amount of accumulated dust on CPU heatsinks and the back of fans is frightening.


the only difference is, clocks don't run on tracksBigGrin
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline Purellum  
#37 Posted : 31 December 2022 16:43:57(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,498
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
the only difference is, clocks don't run on tracks


Well, many early Märklin locomotives were driven by clockwork BigGrin

Happy New Year BigGrin

Per.

Cool

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Offline Toosmall  
#38 Posted : 31 December 2022 19:39:28(UTC)
Toosmall

Australia   
Joined: 26/07/2021(UTC)
Posts: 608
Location: Sydney
But clocks will run billions of beats, decades continuously. Too much oil and the capillary action drains the oil out of the bearings.
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Offline dickinsonj  
#39 Posted : 01 January 2023 00:52:46(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: Toosmall Go to Quoted Post
But clocks will run billions of beats, decades continuously. Too much oil and the capillary action drains the oil out of the bearings.


Ah, a mechanical clock fanatic like myself. ThumpUp

I have long been an advocate for controlling the amount of oil applied to small bearings and never letting it run over, which definitely dries out the bearings and makes a pointless mess.

I mostly eliminated my Marklin over-oil problem by oiling them lightly like I do my clocks works. I apply my loco oil with the small needle like applicators many clockmakers use. I spend less time cleaning track and still have good running.

The first good quality ESU loco I bought had this to say about lubrication. This model is made of the highest quality components and will never require lubrication. What a change from Markling's schedule and so much less mess to clean up.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
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