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Offline Olius  
#1 Posted : 23 December 2022 18:22:53(UTC)
Olius

France   
Joined: 23/12/2022(UTC)
Posts: 4
Location: Hauts-de-France, Lille
Hello all,
I´m new here, just joined the forum. This christmas I found my old Märklin set in the attic and set it up. Unfortunately the loco 3104 does not run and I have been trying to fix it with little success. It seems, that the forward/reverse switch is working but thats it. Could this be an engine/wiring problem? I attached pics so that maybe someone could identify some problems from those. Thank you for any help in advance and thank you for the membership for this forum. 3104 loco.jpg3104 locoo.jpg
Offline mvd71  
#2 Posted : 23 December 2022 18:39:00(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,708
Location: Auckland,
If you haven’t used it for a number of years the oil may have gummed up around the motor and gears preventing it from turning.

Put your thumb on the driving wheel that the gears go to and see if you can turn it. If not, or if there is a lot of resistance, you may need to take it apart to clean and re lube the gears and motor.

Cheers,….

Mike
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by mvd71
Offline kiwiAlan  
#3 Posted : 23 December 2022 19:08:25(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: mvd71 Go to Quoted Post
If you haven’t used it for a number of years the oil may have gummed up around the motor and gears preventing it from turning.


I wouldn't do that without removing at least the brushes, and preferably the armature, you are most likely to spin a wheel on an axle if the motor is gummed up.

Take the motor apart before trying to move the wheels.

To do this, in the first photo, on the left and right of the milky white brush plate you can see two brush holders that have fine springs in them holding the brushes in. carefully lift the springs and remove the brushes.

Then undo the two black screws holding the brush plate to the chassis. It should lift up without needing to detach any wires, but if the oil has dried in the bearing it may take a bit of pulling. The magent winding may also come away as it is wired to the brush plate, and same two screws hold it in place.

Now lift out the motor armature. It should come out reasonably easily, but dried up oil may jam it in the motor bearing in the chassis. Depending on which motor bearing has the more dried up oil the armature may try and come away with the brush plate.

Now you can try turning the wheels with your fingers. They may turn, or may need some oil in the axle bearings and on the gears to free everything up. When the wheels turn freely you can reassemble the motor by reversing the steps above, and don't forget to oil the motor bearings.

Before putting the brushes back in you can try turning the wheels with your fingers again. You should be able to make the motor armature spin quite freely. Now put the brushes back in and try some power on it.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
Offline Olius  
#4 Posted : 23 December 2022 19:13:14(UTC)
Olius

France   
Joined: 23/12/2022(UTC)
Posts: 4
Location: Hauts-de-France, Lille
Mike, thank you for your reply. I actually cleaned the gears and motor allready so I know it´s not a jamming issue. I suspected the wiring because when I opened the motor housing for cleaning both of the wires detached from the frontend of the loco. I solded them back but it did not help. The small spring got some damage to it also in the process Confused Any ideas?

Originally Posted by: mvd71 Go to Quoted Post
If you haven’t used it for a number of years the oil may have gummed up around the motor and gears preventing it from turning.

Put your thumb on the driving wheel that the gears go to and see if you can turn it. If not, or if there is a lot of resistance, you may need to take it apart to clean and re lube the gears and motor.

Cheers,….

Mike
Offline kiwiAlan  
#5 Posted : 23 December 2022 19:24:59(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Olius Go to Quoted Post
Mike, thank you for your reply. I actually cleaned the gears and motor allready so I know it´s not a jamming issue. I suspected the wiring because when I opened the motor housing for cleaning both of the wires detached from the frontend of the loco. I solded them back but it did not help. The small spring got some damage to it also in the process Confused Any ideas?


Ah, OK, I think I see the problem. On the side view photo, the little piece that toggles back and forth when the reverse mechanism operates should sit vertical when the reverse mechanism releases. At the moment it has quite a lean towards the front of the loco, which means it is fouling on something, and contacts that control the motor direction are not making contact with the piece that toggles.

thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
Offline Olius  
#6 Posted : 23 December 2022 20:38:04(UTC)
Olius

France   
Joined: 23/12/2022(UTC)
Posts: 4
Location: Hauts-de-France, Lille
Thanks kiwiAlan, The toggle between forward/backwards works fine so it could definietly be an contact issue. I have been trying to figure out the spot you mean in the front but can´t seem to find it. Could you perhaps point it out to me by editing the sideview photo?

Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Olius Go to Quoted Post
Mike, thank you for your reply. I actually cleaned the gears and motor allready so I know it´s not a jamming issue. I suspected the wiring because when I opened the motor housing for cleaning both of the wires detached from the frontend of the loco. I solded them back but it did not help. The small spring got some damage to it also in the process Confused Any ideas?


Ah, OK, I think I see the problem. On the side view photo, the little piece that toggles back and forth when the reverse mechanism operates should sit vertical when the reverse mechanism releases. At the moment it has quite a lean towards the front of the loco, which means it is fouling on something, and contacts that control the motor direction are not making contact with the piece that toggles.



Offline kiwiAlan  
#7 Posted : 23 December 2022 23:33:38(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Olius Go to Quoted Post
Thanks kiwiAlan, The toggle between forward/backwards works fine so it could definietly be an contact issue. I have been trying to figure out the spot you mean in the front but can´t seem to find it. Could you perhaps point it out to me by editing the sideview photo?



OK, have a look at this ...
Untitled.jpg

The green arrow is pointing at the piece I am talking about. It should be vertical when the reverse mechanism is not activated.

The orange arrow is pointing at a steel pin that is mounted on the brass piece that moves back and forth when the reverse mechanism is activated. It should push the inverted W shaped slot in the top of the piece the green arrow points to, tilting it slightly so the contacts disengage, and makes it turn to the other contact.

In this second picture you can see the items I am talking about ...
Untitled.jpg

The orange arrow is pointing at the steel wire where it is inserted into the brass piece, and the green arrow is pointing at the inverted W.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
Offline Olius  
#8 Posted : 24 December 2022 12:39:11(UTC)
Olius

France   
Joined: 23/12/2022(UTC)
Posts: 4
Location: Hauts-de-France, Lille
Ok, I Got it, thank you kiwiAlan. The w shaped toggle seems to make contact after I bent it a bit. No effect though, the loco still won´t run. I attached a video, (turn on audio as well Bored ) Could it be that I have solded the black wires in the wrong order? 3104a.mp4 (2,024kb) downloaded 13 time(s).

Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Olius Go to Quoted Post
Thanks kiwiAlan, The toggle between forward/backwards works fine so it could definietly be an contact issue. I have been trying to figure out the spot you mean in the front but can´t seem to find it. Could you perhaps point it out to me by editing the sideview photo?



OK, have a look at this ...
Untitled.jpg

The green arrow is pointing at the piece I am talking about. It should be vertical when the reverse mechanism is not activated.

The orange arrow is pointing at a steel pin that is mounted on the brass piece that moves back and forth when the reverse mechanism is activated. It should push the inverted W shaped slot in the top of the piece the green arrow points to, tilting it slightly so the contacts disengage, and makes it turn to the other contact.

In this second picture you can see the items I am talking about ...
Untitled.jpg

The orange arrow is pointing at the steel wire where it is inserted into the brass piece, and the green arrow is pointing at the inverted W.


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