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Offline French_Fabrice  
#1 Posted : 20 November 2022 18:16:17(UTC)
French_Fabrice

France   
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,480
Location: Lyon, France
Hello Markliners,

I'm currently planning to convert the Snow Plow of Marklin 26830 kit (dated 1999, contains also a BR52 loco), with a recent Loksound 5 decoder.
This snow plow was also sold as a separate item #49963, some years later, with a different livery, but I think it is the same as mine (except the color).

I was lucky to find a sound project at ESU which matches a snow plow : Schneeschleuder Xrot-9214
I did all necessary changes in the sound project, and now it is ready.

I've recorded the snow plow (unmodified with old MM decoder) in the CS2, and played a bit with the functions:
F0: 2 lights over 3 lit in the lighting bar (lights on each side)
F1: sound + snow plow rotates at full speed (no way to reduce the speed) and motor is making some noises, because of way too quick rotation
F2: Change the rotation direction
F3: Whistle
F4 (+F0): Lights at each side shut and central light on.
Note: the lights are yellow LEDs.

Now the question:
The light bar is inserted above the snow plow and has 2 metal bars which touch 2 contacts in the PCB. I'm a bit perplex about how it runs ?
As there are only 2 contacts, I'm guessing one is + and the other is -. But how is it possible that when pressing F0, I get 2 lights on and F0+F4 I get only the 3rd light on (others are off) ?
The only explanation I can find is in the light bar, the central light is mounted in a reverse way (+ and - swapped), compared to the 2 others ... ?

Some shots:

UserPostedImage
Snow plow with light bar on top

UserPostedImage
Light bar front

UserPostedImage
Light bar back

UserPostedImage
PCB

Can anyone confirm my assumption about the wiring of the light bar ?
If I'm true, would I need a relay to switch the polarity of both metal bars ? (sorry to be so dumb in electronics)

All your inputs are welcome.

Cheers
Fabrice

PS:
I've already seen a project by Moritz, where he modified the electronics, but this is not what I'm looking for https://www.marklin-user...---Conversion-of-Decoder ThumpUp
I've also searched at Ross' articles, but unfortunately the one referring to 26830 is about the BR52, not the snow plow - However, it gave me ideas for the BR52 conversionThumpUp
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Offline Ross  
#2 Posted : 20 November 2022 20:25:50(UTC)
Ross

Australia   
Joined: 25/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 881
Location: Sydney, NSW
Hi Fabrice,

Thanks for the mention. I have two snow plough sets and have yet to do these conversions so I will look with interest what you come up with, good luck.
Ross
Offline bph  
#3 Posted : 22 November 2022 00:00:49(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 1,004
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Offline French_Fabrice  
#4 Posted : 22 November 2022 07:50:55(UTC)
French_Fabrice

France   
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,480
Location: Lyon, France
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post


Hello,

Very interesting !!!
Thanks a lot.

Fabrice
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bph
Offline bph  
#5 Posted : 22 November 2022 10:48:14(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 1,004
Originally Posted by: French_Fabrice Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: bph Go to Quoted Post


Hello,

Very interesting !!!
Thanks a lot.

Fabrice


I used that board in my upgrade, and it works nicely.
https://www.marklin-users.net/forum/posts/t46568-26830-Schneeschleuder---rotary-snowplow---mSD3-upgrade

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Offline French_Fabrice  
#6 Posted : 22 November 2022 12:53:16(UTC)
French_Fabrice

France   
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,480
Location: Lyon, France
I didn't see your thread !

Thanks a lot again !
Fabrice
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bph
Offline French_Fabrice  
#7 Posted : 21 December 2022 14:15:29(UTC)
French_Fabrice

France   
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,480
Location: Lyon, France
Hello Markliners,

I've ordered the PCB from John Soldeert. https://johnsoldeert.nl/...dapters/sneeuwruimer-mtc

I've also found a sound project at ESU which fits perfectly.
The Loksound5 decoder 58419 has been programmed with the ESU decoder tester 53900 and Lokprogramer 5.1.10 and it works fine.

But...
After wiring the PCB and inserted the decoder, it has run one time (and not immediately at first power on ??? ).
When the motor was running, the Ledbar was fine and lit correctly, and the sound was also OK.
I've noticed that at slow speed steps ( <4 over 28), the motor has some jerks. At high speed steps, the motor seems to run correctly

However, since this first time, I'm no more able to run it again with the use of the Lokprogramer ??? Nothing runs !

I've verified all soldering points, tested the conductivity of various tracks on the PCB, all is OK.
To be sure the decoder wasn't fried, I've moved it to the decoder tester and it works absolutely fine.

As a last try, I've unmounted the motor from the snow plow, wired the 2 wires from the motor to the pcb, and provided + and - directly soldered from the Lokprogramer device, and changed the decoder with a Lokpilot5 (no sound).
Motor settings are the default settings from ESU.
And started to test...

I've experienced exactly same behavior: At 1st power on, nothing... Then after approximately 30 sec, the motor starts to rotate, Led bar was fine. I've also experienced same jerks at low speed.
If I stop the lokprogramer virtual drive then restart it, most of time nothing. However, If a rotate manually a few revs the motor axle with power off, then power on and retest, I was lucky let's say 4 times over 10 (motor and ledbar OK).

My current status is I'm suspecting the motor to have trouble, OR the motor parameters are completely incorrect for this type of motor (parallelepipedic DC motor).
If the motor has trouble (internal short sometimes ?) that may explain the decoder doesn't react... some kind of safe mode, to prevent the decoder from frying.

I know forum member "bph" had some success with this pcb, and a MSD3 decoder. Would it be possible for you to post the various values of the CV related to the motor you have used ?
Other suggestions are welcome, because I'm completely in the dark...

A last attempt would be to replace the motor, but not available at Marklin. Anyone knows where such a motor could be ordered ?

Many thanks in advance
Fabrice
Offline bph  
#8 Posted : 21 December 2022 17:26:04(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 1,004
Hi
I don't remember any particular motor issues when I did the upgrade. So you are probably right in suspecting the motor itself.
With the msd3 I got decent results with the DC hard setting and the automatic decoder calibration, so I left it at that. As for a spare motor, the motor in one of the latter might fit. E166361, is listed as available on the Märklin site.

Here are the values from the decoder after the calibration: (i know that the calibration sequence was probably never intended to be used on the snow blower, but it did improve the motor running a little bit....).
http://www.hovland.net/bilder/mj/fres1.jpg
http://www.hovland.net/bilder/mj/fres2.jpg
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#9 Posted : 21 December 2022 17:39:15(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,128
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: French_Fabrice Go to Quoted Post

I've experienced exactly same behavior: At 1st power on, nothing... Then after approximately 30 sec, the motor starts to rotate, Led bar was fine. I've also experienced same jerks at low speed.


I would try lubricating the motor bearings before doing anything else. A tiny drop of oil will often work wonders with these sort of motor problems.
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Offline French_Fabrice  
#10 Posted : 21 December 2022 17:45:26(UTC)
French_Fabrice

France   
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,480
Location: Lyon, France
Hello,

@bph: many thanks for the screen shots, and the motor reference. I'll try to adapt them to Lokpilot, and I'll probably order a new motor.
@kiwiAlan: yeah, a drop of grease will not be harmful, you're right. As it was stored for 25 years in its box, that may help...

More news to come after CV adaptation.

Cheers
Fabrice
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bph
Offline French_Fabrice  
#11 Posted : 23 December 2022 08:38:38(UTC)
French_Fabrice

France   
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,480
Location: Lyon, France
Hello Folks,

Well, CV value update has provided some smoother operation (no more jerk) of the motor, with the Lokpilot decoder, but again it doesn't work all time, even with a drop of grease.
Tried to do same thing with the Loksound decoder -> no way, no reaction ?

A new motor is ordered from Marklin.
More news after receiving the new motor...

Merry Christmas
Fabrice
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Offline French_Fabrice  
#12 Posted : 27 December 2022 18:17:58(UTC)
French_Fabrice

France   
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,480
Location: Lyon, France
Hello folks,

You know what: it was a crazy story Cursing

I've received the replacement motor (E166361):
-Size is the same
-except the plastic part surrounding the axle is 5mm in diameter while the motor cradle is 4mm Crying
-As it is plastic, I can file it, but it's boring...

...
And I did a test with the motor on the bench (not inside the loco)... and guess what : nothing with loksound 5 Confused
At this stage of investigations, I was thinking my old Windows XP Virtual Machine wasn't able to drive the loksound 5 (the last possible version is 5.1.10), even if the decoder tester was absolutely fine with the Loksound 5 ???
...
I've set a new Virtual Machine with Windows 10, reinstalled the lokprogrammer v5.2.2... same nothingness Blink
...
I've decided to pick a Lokpilot 4 (no sound) I had in stock, setup some basic programming... and miracle it was running all times Cool.
...
At this stage, the status was:
-All OK with lokpilot 4 (no sound): PCB, motor and lights, either with version 5.1.10 or 5.2.2 of the lokprogrammer software
-OK 4 times over 10 with lokpilot 5 (no sound): PCB, motor and lights, either with version 5.1.10 or 5.2.2 of the lokprogrammer software
-Always KO with loksound 5: PCB, motor and lights, either with version 5.1.10 or 5.2.2 of the lokprogrammer software
-All 3 decoders OK with decoder tester 53900

Crazy, isn't it ?

So what is remaining:
-The loudspeaker of the loco ? maybe some short ?
-The PCB itself is OK, because it runs with LP4
-The motor of the snow plow is different from the motor on the decoder tester, but again, the motor of the snow plow works fine with LP4
...very few other alternatives Confused

And finally, by re-reading the specs of the various decoders, could that be a power draw issue ?
The power block I use to power the lokprogrammer is 12V, 500mA... Mmmh, not a lot !Huh In the past, when I was testing some smoke devices with the lokprogrammer, it had frequently power cut off because of too much power drawn.

And, after digging in the stock, I found a 12V, 2.5A power block for LED ribbon- with the right plug...
...Drum roll...
YES, that was it BigGrin . Loksound 5 is now fine with the PCB Woot

All that mess because of a not enough powerful power block RollEyes !

In summary, the original motor is fine, the new one is also fine but with an issue to insert it, the PCB is fine and the Ledbar too...

Now, I'm going to rewire all in the snow plow, put some additional LEDs, and set it definitely.

Next post to come: A video with all stuff running (I hope).

Cheers
Fabrice


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Offline bph  
#13 Posted : 27 December 2022 23:05:33(UTC)
bph

Norway   
Joined: 04/08/2018(UTC)
Posts: 1,004
Hi
yes, sometimes things are a bit frustrating and strange.....

good that you managed to solve the problems, and it might help others. And it is always nice to have a spare motor.


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Offline French_Fabrice  
#14 Posted : 02 January 2023 19:23:28(UTC)
French_Fabrice

France   
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,480
Location: Lyon, France
Hello

1) Happy new year to all
2) I have encountered issues when putting the snow plow on the programming track of the CS2 Crying
2.1) The reading of the decoder was fine (DCC address 6405), and a new loco was registered Cool
2.2) but when trying to activate the lights, they got blocked (no possibility to shut down them), and no sound Cursing

I'm suspecting either my ESU Loksound5 decoder is broken, or there is something wrong in the decoder eprom.

In order to eliminate bad programming inside the decoder, I think to do a reset of the decoder, but my question is: how do you erase the sounds ?
Does a reset done with the ESU lokprogrammer completely wipe out the sounds ?

Cheers
Fabrice
Offline kiwiAlan  
#15 Posted : 02 January 2023 19:48:40(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,128
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: French_Fabrice Go to Quoted Post

Does a reset done with the ESU lokprogrammer completely wipe out the sounds ?

Cheers
Fabrice


No, the only way to change the sounds loaded in the decoder is to load new sounds. Doing a reset only changes CVs to the default values - but be aware that when you loaded the sound file there is a check box in the lokprogrammer software that can set up the CV values as written as new defaults.

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Offline river6109  
#16 Posted : 03 January 2023 12:52:13(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,752
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
if you have a lokprogrammer you can take the decoder out of the snowplow and connected directly to the lokprogrammer, there you should find out whether the decoder is ok or not, if the decoder is ok you should investigate the wiring and do this with a multimeter before putting the decoder back.,
another tip is when working on a loco and you have a lokprogrammer it is always wise to read the decoder first, if there is anything wrong with the wiring the decoder will not read.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline French_Fabrice  
#17 Posted : 31 January 2023 22:14:43(UTC)
French_Fabrice

France   
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,480
Location: Lyon, France
Hello Folks,

Well, it was a rather complicated story, and I'm still unsure of the exact cause of the issues I encountered...
Now, it runs fine.

The story:
1) When I programmed the Loksound5 on the bench with the Lokprogrammer and the decoder tester, all was perfect: sound, lights, motor
2) When I put back the Loksound5 into the snow plow, and put it on the bench (no decoder tester), the issue was the power block seemed to be not powerful enough ? After switching the power block to a 12V, 2.5A, and plugged into the Lokprogrammer, all went fine again.
3) I then put the snow plow on the programing track of the CS2 , recorded it and started to play with the various functions. To make the story short, each time I lit the external lights (F0F+Aux3), the decoder was stuck
4) I've dimmed the LED value to 3 (over 31). Most of the time, it was OK, but from time to time, the decoder got stuck when I lit the external lights. No issue with "projector" light (F0F+Aux4). All other functions (firebox LED, 2 cabin LED lights, various sounds) were OK, and motor was also running
5) I finally decided to swap the decoder, by using my last stock Loksound4 (M4) decoder I recently put in Ae 8/14 loco (37591)
6) I've reused the original BEMO loksound4 project for Snow plow found at ESU, overwrite the Loksound4 with the BEMO project, and changed all necessary parameters
7) Snow plow was OK on bench... and snow plow was OK on programing track of CS2 BigGrin
8) I then picked the Loksound5, found the sound project for Ae 8/14 at ESU (V5), programmed it, put the decoder LSV5 into that big loco... and ALL is fine again.

Conclusion:
-Both decoders are fine (LSV4 and LSV5)
-I suspect the PCB from John Soldeert to be not fully compatible with ESU LoksoundV5, or something else but I don't know exactly what ?

Anyway, I'm happy with my conversions and they run fine.
I'll try to record a video of various functions of the snow plow, and post it later.

Cheers
Fabrice

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Offline Piquet  
#18 Posted : 08 August 2023 19:58:14(UTC)
Piquet

United Kingdom   
Joined: 11/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 11
Location: England, Chippenham
Hi Fabrice,
I have read this thread with interest as I have a similar situation. The 'magic smoke' escaped from one of the chips on the original decoder! Why, I don't know. So now I am faced with replacing the decoder. Like you, I have thought about fitting a LokSound decoder. While I have a pile of V4 LokPilots, I need to buy a new LS. Again, like you, I was puzzling over the head and work lights. In the end, did you use any supplementary pcb's or just the LS, and, if so, how did you work out the lights?
While I have an ESU Lok Programmer and can fit decoders, I am not familiar with the more intricate elements of electronics.
Paul
Offline French_Fabrice  
#19 Posted : 08 August 2023 21:39:24(UTC)
French_Fabrice

France   
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,480
Location: Lyon, France
Hello Paul,

I've replaced the original PCB with this PCB: https://johnsoldeert.nl/...apters/sneeuwruimer-mtc.
I've added a firebox red led + 1.5K resistor on aux2, and also a 3528 LED with 1.5K resistor on Aux5 and repeated same led+resistor on Aux6, to lighten the cabin
Then I've programmed an ESU LokSound V4 decoder with a project from ESU: It is located at http://projects.esu.eu/p...rder=date&country=ch . Find the project named "Schneeschleuder Xrot-9214" and adapt it to your needs.

My function mapping is as follows:
F0,Not F4: Dual lights (f0F+aux3)+dynamo (F1 required to hear dynamo sound)
F1: drive sound (snd)
F2: Smoke (aux1)
F3: Firebox (aux2)
F0,F4: Projector (f0f+aux4)+dynamo (F1 required to hear dynamo sound)
F5: LoudWhistle long (snd)
F6: SharpWhistle long (snd)
F7: LoudWhistle short (snd)
F8: SharpWhistle short (snd)
F9: cabin1+2 (aux5+aux6)
F10: Door open/close (snd)
F11: Centrifuge slow (snd)
F12: Centrifuge fast (snd)
F13: Centrifuge deep snow (snd)
F14: Turn of the centrifuge (snd)
F15: Slow+abv off (logic)
F16: Water pump (snd)
F17: Injector (snd)
F18: Air pump (snd)
F19: Coal shoveling (snd)

For some unknown reason yet (see my previous post), LS V5 wasn't running perfectly on the track, while it was running fine on the workbench with the LokProgrammer. Too high voltage issue ?Confused

Good luck
Fabrice
Offline Piquet  
#20 Posted : 09 August 2023 22:24:20(UTC)
Piquet

United Kingdom   
Joined: 11/10/2015(UTC)
Posts: 11
Location: England, Chippenham
Thanks Fabrice. I'll have to get the relevant decoder from my usual supplier (which will be a LS5 though), and that special pcb from Holland.
Paul
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