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Offline xxup  
#1 Posted : 12 February 2022 04:54:36(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,463
Location: Australia
Firstly, it looks like this:

UserPostedImage
Image borrowed from https://swissbahn.ch

This loco has a clicking sound at medium to high speeds. The frequency of the sound changes with the running direction. Initially, I thought that I had solved the problem when I found that one of the plastic clips that holds the motor down was broken. After waiting for many months for two replacements, the noise is still there.

The motor was removed and the remained of the loco pushed along the local dealer's smooth C-track (I use M-track, but it can be hard to use for this sort of diagnosis). You can feel the click and it seems to be in the running gear, but there is nothing obviously wrong. By chance, another one arrived at the dealer's place and, it too, has a clicking sound that is slightly different in frequency.

Has anyone else experienced and fixed this problem?
Adrian
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Online kiwiAlan  
#2 Posted : 12 February 2022 11:40:41(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,101
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
You can feel the click and it seems to be in the running gear, but there is nothing obviously wrong. By chance, another one arrived at the dealer's place and, it too, has a clicking sound that is slightly different in frequency.

Has anyone else experienced and fixed this problem?


This sounds like the wheels haven't been assembled correctly. I wonder if the driving 'flywheel' is at the correct angle in relation to the track wheels. It would only need a slight misalignment to cause an 'overcenter' clunk on the connecting rods without actually jamming the drive.

Offline xxup  
#3 Posted : 12 February 2022 12:09:32(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,463
Location: Australia
Hmm.. Good thought, but how do I set them up correctly?
Adrian
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Online marklinist5999  
#4 Posted : 12 February 2022 14:09:16(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,119
Location: Michigan, Troy
My adbvice is if it's running, leave it! You might make things worse by trying to fix it. Sometimes things just are as good as they can be. It also could only be the plastic idler crank rod clicking.
If it begins to lock up, then you have to do something.
At least you don't have to wory about a piston rod being ejected out the engine block from a broken wrist pin, or a spun crankshaft bearing.
Offline cookee_nz  
#5 Posted : 12 February 2022 15:50:47(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,953
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
Hmm.. Good thought, but how do I set them up correctly?


If you remove the coupling rods from both sides, do you still get the noise?
Cookee
Wellington
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Offline xxup  
#6 Posted : 12 February 2022 23:45:43(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,463
Location: Australia
Good idea Cookee, but I might only remove one side at a time.
Adrian
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Offline Purellum  
#7 Posted : 12 February 2022 23:59:13(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,500
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
The motor was removed and the remained of the loco pushed along the local dealer's smooth C-track

............ You can feel the click


Please describe "feel the click" BigGrin

Was the same pushing force needed all the time, or could you feel any spots - related to
wheel rotation - where it got just the slightest harder to push it?

I think I would remove both motor and slider, and then try again, really slowly pushing,
using only one finger, to see if the are any "hard" spots on a wheel rotation.

And then remove the coupling rods, and try again if pushing feels the same Cool

Per.

Cool



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I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

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Offline Ross  
#8 Posted : 13 February 2022 03:36:10(UTC)
Ross

Australia   
Joined: 25/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 872
Location: Sydney, NSW
Hi Adrian,

I have that loco and there is no clicking.

Check the traction tyres are not split as this can cause clicking sounds.

Ross
Offline mike c  
#9 Posted : 13 February 2022 04:49:58(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,890
Location: Montreal, QC
I concur that the coupling rods are likely the source of the clicking. My guess is that one of the rods may be rubbing against the other part as the locomotive moves, causing a clicking noise and a slight tick that can be felt. To check this, use a Lokliege or test bench to test the locomotive while it is inverted and observe the rods as they move.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline xxup  
#10 Posted : 13 February 2022 12:12:10(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,463
Location: Australia
Thanks guys, I now have a way forward. I will let you know the findings.
Adrian
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Online kiwiAlan  
#11 Posted : 13 February 2022 14:41:18(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,101
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
Hmm.. Good thought, but how do I set them up correctly?


I would remove one of the bolts securing the rods. Then run the loco to see if the clicking stops. if it doesn't, replace that bolt, then take the same bolt out of the other side (unless you can identify the side that clicks) and try again. Keep working you way around the bolts one at a time until the clicking stops.

You may also want to see if there are two clicks per wheel rotation, as both sides could produce a click but it not be obvious. You may need to run the loco very slowly to pick this this up.
Offline xxup  
#12 Posted : 13 February 2022 23:01:48(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,463
Location: Australia
The loco only makes the clicking sound when it is at the higher speeds - no noticeable click at slow speed.
Adrian
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Offline xxup  
#13 Posted : 01 October 2022 14:07:06(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,463
Location: Australia
I managed to get back to this problem today. It got worse and the same problem appeared in a second identical model after a short running time.

UserPostedImage

The gear is split. At first it is a small crack, which widens with the torque applied to the gears in one direction. After a while, it widens to this gap you see in the image above. When this happens, the sound happens in both directions and you can actually feel it by rolling the chassis along the track after you have removed the motor. You can't see the crack looking down the wheel from under the loco, you need to look from the gear side - very hard to see.

My theory is that there is a slight imbalance between the gear driven by the motor on the other and the wheel pushed by the rod from the other geared axle (the one with the tyres), which causes stress at the gear leading to the crack (and very slight click) that grown into a large gap and a much louder click.

Needless to say, it looks like the part is no longer available. Both 36331s are now dead.

A potential solution is to remove the idler gear that runs off the axle with the broken gear so that that axle is driven by the rod from the other axle (with the tyres) and not by the motor.
Adrian
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Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#14 Posted : 01 October 2022 18:12:55(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,865
Location: CA, USA
I have a different theory- the famous "plastic pest"

The seetal crocodiles from roughly the same era suffer from the same gear malady, although they are better known for their antics with the frame castings.

A thought- is it the same wheelset that the current 36333 uses? Or 36353/36332?

For repair, one not permanent idea that could work is thin superglue application then rapidly pressing the gear back together, and fast-drying it with accelerant? That might just sort it, and then perhaps a very thin surface coat (without getting it into the gears!) to try and bond/hold everything longer term?

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Offline mike c  
#15 Posted : 01 October 2022 20:17:53(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,890
Location: Montreal, QC
There are a number of parts which are not available as spares, but the item may still be available for factory repairs.
I would try emailing Maerklin and also try one of the Swiss service people to see if they have this in stock.
https://www.maerklin.ch/...service/reparaturservice

Regards

Mike C
Offline JohnjeanB  
#16 Posted : 01 October 2022 20:28:06(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,114
Location: Paris, France
Hi Adrian
From what you describe it seems to me:
- there is a design flaw or production flaw that requires the installation of the plastic gear with excessive constrain that leads on some models for the gear to shear.
Indeed Märklin does not provides the part for this 2008 locomotive 36331.
Usually Märklin does have these parts in stock but insists on doing this repair themselves.

What to do?
Find a similar gear: same diameter, same number of teeth same axle bore (the module may be deducted. Difficult but not impossible.
Here is an example of a gear provider https://ttn-shop.com/marklin-part_00-457-2-0.php

Another less orthodox repair:
- remove the faulty axle and separate the parts (wheels, axle, gear)
- gently drill the gear so that it slides smoothly on the axle
- glue the gear in its correct position
- reinstall the wheel paying attention to the precise quartering.

I hope this helps
Jean
Online kiwiAlan  
#17 Posted : 01 October 2022 20:33:41(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,101
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: xxup Go to Quoted Post
I managed to get back to this problem today. It got worse and the same problem appeared in a second identical model after a short running time.

UserPostedImage

The gear is split. ...


That is nasty. It looks like the hole is the gear has been made a too tight fit on the axle, with the result the gear could not withstand the stress.

I wonder if the gear is a separate part to the wheel, in which case a spare part for a later model, and access to a wheel press would be the way to fix it. But I would also carefully measure the hole and axle diameters and talk to someone with experience of interference fits in metals to see if they are appropriate.
Offline xxup  
#18 Posted : 01 October 2022 23:56:50(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,463
Location: Australia
Thank you for the feedback guys.

My dealer is going to have a chat to Marklin on Tuesday to see if the later parts will fit the earlier models.

Failing that, I will explore that gear site. However, I am convinced that this is a design flaw coupled with a poor material choice.
Adrian
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Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#19 Posted : 02 October 2022 01:33:49(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,865
Location: CA, USA
Keep us posted- I'm staring nervously at a few locos in the display case...
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Offline mike c  
#20 Posted : 02 October 2022 02:29:50(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,890
Location: Montreal, QC
The Ee3/3 shares the design of the wheels/axles with the Seetal De 6/6. I wonder if the parts are the same?

I still think that contacting maerklin directly or one of their Swiss service depots is the best option, as they likely have parts for in-house repairs.

Regards

Mike C



Offline 5HorizonsRR  
#21 Posted : 02 October 2022 17:39:58(UTC)
5HorizonsRR

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,865
Location: CA, USA
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post
The Ee3/3 shares the design of the wheels/axles with the Seetal De 6/6. I wonder if the parts are the same?

I still think that contacting maerklin directly or one of their Swiss service depots is the best option, as they likely have parts for in-house repairs.

Regards

Mike C



That would be a quick explanation. (and the seetal parts are n longer available either, so it kind of adds up)

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Online marklinist5999  
#22 Posted : 03 October 2022 16:34:32(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,119
Location: Michigan, Troy
Are newer Seetal parts available since the first issued model under Kngsbridge which had the zinc pest problesm? Marklin upgraded the design afterward on new issues.
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