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Offline mrunix  
#1 Posted : 30 September 2022 23:44:03(UTC)
mrunix

Sweden   
Joined: 18/02/2022(UTC)
Posts: 24
Location: Uppsala lan, Uppsala
Hi

I have only a MS2 today, now looking at CS3, CS3+ or a used CS2.

The CS2 is half the money of the CS3+, what is the difference one could notice of these two?

Is it worth the money to get the CS3+ or should I get the CS2 and hope for a CS4 in a year or so then move up?
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Offline dickinsonj  
#2 Posted : 01 October 2022 01:13:27(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,676
Location: Crozet, Virginia
The CS2 is cheaper but it runs much slower with its old hardware and the screen is marginal. The CS3 is a major upgrade in almost every way but as you know, it cost a good bit more. As an owner of a CS2 I have always found them to sell for more than what they are worth. I keep mine just to use as a slave to my CS3+.

I think the value is in the CS3, maybe not even the CS3 plus which adds things many people do not need..
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline marklinist5999  
#3 Posted : 01 October 2022 01:14:13(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,075
Location: Michigan, Troy
The CS3's both have full screen fuction/icon activation. The CS2 has buttons on each side for several. The 3's may have a slightly better processor. They also include a third pop up Loco controller with the latest update. You use a finger, or stylus/mouse to use it. Your MS2 will plug into the front as an auxiliary controller.
The CS3 plus has an ethernet connection on the bottom for S-88 feedback connectivity. This elimnates the need for an external Link S-88 between the CS2, or basic CS3 and the S-88 feedback decoders. The S-88 Link requires a seperate power supply. The CS3 plus has it built in for the S-88 decoders. You need a terminal box like your MS2 uses to connect it to a CS2, or to connect a CS2 with a CS3.
Keep in mind that a used CS2 will have no 2 year warranty. Hope I was helpfull!
P.S. there are also recent Marklin digital club webinars posted on Youtube for the CS3's.
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#4 Posted : 01 October 2022 01:23:48(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,084
Location: Paris, France
Hi Mrunix

I had 2 CS2 (60215) now replaced with one CS3 (60226) and here are my thoughts:
- the CS2 (especially the late 60214 and 60215 with galvanic insulation) was an excellent unit and very innovative (may be more than the CS3)
- the CS2 cannot be repaired today. Any failure results in the replacement of the CS2 by a CS3
- the CS3 screen management is totally different (same size but higher definition, different tactile detection capacitive on the CS3 making rapidly the use of a mouse.
- the CS2 capacity was reached (no more extension capability) while on the CS3 the memory has increased by at least a factor of four.
- the new Märklin software will strangle more and more the CS2. On my CS3 I could add a 32 GB memory card.
- the handling of external devices on the CS2 was linked to previous generations (the old flat cable 6088 detector, the old 6015 / 6017 booster) while the CS3 is firmly anchored to new generation devices.

Why not the CS2?
- one of my CS2 has died because of the incapacity to finish the booting-up and many CS2 have died this way. This is due to a solid state massmemory with an increasing number of mistakes. This cannot be repaired (unavailability of some circuits.
- the other CS2 I have is fully functional EXCEPT that both its outputs (Programming / main tracks) have died (cannot drive any loco).

So, to summarize: if you have a CS2, keep it, excellent unit, but I would not advise to buy one unless at 25% of a CS3 price or below
Also avoid purchasing early CS2: 60213 and early 60214 (no 5A capability but only 3A capability, no galvanic separation causing may failures).

Cheers
Jean
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Offline Eurobahnfan  
#5 Posted : 01 October 2022 03:06:48(UTC)
Eurobahnfan

United States   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 407
Location: Stockton, CA
Thanks Jean! I have a CS3 on order… happy to know I made a good choice 😁
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Offline mrunix  
#6 Posted : 01 October 2022 07:50:51(UTC)
mrunix

Sweden   
Joined: 18/02/2022(UTC)
Posts: 24
Location: Uppsala lan, Uppsala
Thanks alot for all input, its ofcourse tempting when price is half of CS3 but I belive you all that CS3 is the best of these 2.

CS3 is also very old 6-7 years if I understand it right, should not a CS4 arrive soon, no rumours out of that?
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Offline mrunix  
#7 Posted : 01 October 2022 07:51:52(UTC)
mrunix

Sweden   
Joined: 18/02/2022(UTC)
Posts: 24
Location: Uppsala lan, Uppsala
Originally Posted by: Eurobahnfan Go to Quoted Post
Thanks Jean! I have a CS3 on order… happy to know I made a good choice 😁


Did you order CS3 or the CS3+?
Offline STE-BM  
#8 Posted : 01 October 2022 11:15:33(UTC)
STE-BM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 18/02/2020(UTC)
Posts: 35
Location: England, London
Hi MrUnix,

Not sure where you are based but in case BesserePreise ships to your country it’s worth you checking their site to buy a CS.
The CS3+ is 21% off from that store.
CS3 at 592€.
Otherwise I do agree with you that based on the retail price the CS3/CS3+ are very expensive and a CS2 might look like an alternative.

I’ve been looking at prices recently and theirs were substantially better than other well knows sellers and made a cs3+ more palatable.

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Offline mrunix  
#9 Posted : 01 October 2022 13:11:30(UTC)
mrunix

Sweden   
Joined: 18/02/2022(UTC)
Posts: 24
Location: Uppsala lan, Uppsala
Originally Posted by: STE-BM Go to Quoted Post
Hi MrUnix,

Not sure where you are based but in case BesserePreise ships to your country it’s worth you checking their site to buy a CS.
The CS3+ is 21% off from that store.
CS3 at 592€.
Otherwise I do agree with you that based on the retail price the CS3/CS3+ are very expensive and a CS2 might look like an alternative.

I’ve been looking at prices recently and theirs were substantially better than other well knows sellers and made a cs3+ more palatable.



Yes they had good prices, 5% off compared to Trainshop.se in Sweden where I am based.

I will give it a though.

Thanks


edit. I checked other stuff tracks and turnabouts at BesserePreise and they have good prices, Thanks for the tip :)

Edited by user 01 October 2022 16:33:38(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Offline marklinist5999  
#10 Posted : 01 October 2022 13:24:18(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,075
Location: Michigan, Troy
No news nor much talk of a CS4. I think the CS3 is rather capable going forward, and with many users operating it via a web based route control or software like Rocrail they rarely need to touch it. It is contrlled by those, I think. Unless marklin decides a larger screen is in order, or they improve the "world of operation" cab driver graphics or other.
The Roco Z21's don't have screens, you use a tablet, phone app., or a p.c.'s screen. They have the best cab driver graphics.
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Offline mrunix  
#11 Posted : 01 October 2022 14:40:44(UTC)
mrunix

Sweden   
Joined: 18/02/2022(UTC)
Posts: 24
Location: Uppsala lan, Uppsala
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
No news nor much talk of a CS4. I think the CS3 is rather capable going forward, and with many users operating it via a web based route control or software like Rocrail they rarely need to touch it. It is contrlled by those, I think. Unless marklin decides a larger screen is in order, or they improve the "world of operation" cab driver graphics or other.
The Roco Z21's don't have screens, you use a tablet, phone app., or a p.c.'s screen. They have the best cab driver graphics.


If using a system like Rocrail will it matter if I have a CS2 or CS3, I mean will something work better using CS3 or is it all up to Rocrail?

Edit. never mind the CS2 question as I see that the CS2 that was on sale was 60213:B which according to this thread means a very old CS2.

So its mearly a question of CS3 or CS3+, since I have a Mobilestation from the startup set and a CS3 Link 88 needs a PSU then I can resuse the one I have and could safe a lot of money if I understand it correctly?
Offline blid  
#12 Posted : 01 October 2022 15:02:06(UTC)
blid

Sweden   
Joined: 02/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 228
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
If you are going for computer control the CS3 is a very expensive way to go. However, I have not had a reason to investigate the market so I have no suggestions. Just as a possibly outdated example I know Littfinski, LDT, had a DiCoStation.
OneGauge Marklin and MTH, ESU ECoS 2.1 on LGB tracks. MTH 3-rail 0-gauge, DCS on GarGraves tracks. Z: Rokuhan tracks, analog or DCC+TC Gold.
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#13 Posted : 01 October 2022 15:22:33(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,084
Location: Paris, France
Hi
Originally Posted by: blid Go to Quoted Post
If you are going for computer control the CS3 is a very expensive way to go. However, I have not had a reason to investigate the market so I have no suggestions. Just as a possibly outdated example I know Littfinski, LDT, had a DiCoStation.



All opinions are good. As a Rocrail user, yes to use the CS3 only as a conduit between your computer and your layout seems make little sense BUT the CS3 serves many other purposes:
- program the loco parameters
- program the sounds of the mSD2s and mSD3s
- to watch the current drain (and detect all abnormalties
- to collect all sensors and watch / simulate them
- and much more I forget

Besides, as I use it with a 60101, it delivers 5 A to my 32 locos permanently connected (No booster).So definitely I never regretted the CS3 I purchased.
Cheers
Jean
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Offline mrunix  
#14 Posted : 01 October 2022 16:38:40(UTC)
mrunix

Sweden   
Joined: 18/02/2022(UTC)
Posts: 24
Location: Uppsala lan, Uppsala
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi
Originally Posted by: blid Go to Quoted Post
If you are going for computer control the CS3 is a very expensive way to go. However, I have not had a reason to investigate the market so I have no suggestions. Just as a possibly outdated example I know Littfinski, LDT, had a DiCoStation.



All opinions are good. As a Rocrail user, yes to use the CS3 only as a conduit between your computer and your layout seems make little sense BUT the CS3 serves many other purposes:
- program the loco parameters
- program the sounds of the mSD2s and mSD3s
- to watch the current drain (and detect all abnormalties
- to collect all sensors and watch / simulate them
- and much more I forget

Besides, as I use it with a 60101, it delivers 5 A to my 32 locos permanently connected (No booster).So definitely I never regretted the CS3 I purchased.
Cheers
Jean


A PSU question, why do Märklin recommend the 60VA PSU for H0 instead if the 100VA, is it a sequrity issue when short circuits happends during derail or why?
c
Offline JohnjeanB  
#15 Posted : 01 October 2022 16:49:22(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,084
Location: Paris, France
Hi
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
No news nor much talk of a CS4. I think the CS3 is rather capable going forward, and with many users operating it via a web based route control or software like Rocrail they rarely need to touch it. It is contrlled by those, I think. Unless marklin decides a larger screen is in order, or they improve the "world of operation" cab driver graphics or other.
The Roco Z21's don't have screens, you use a tablet, phone app., or a p.c.'s screen. They have the best cab driver graphics.


My cristal ball is as good as yours but:
The CS2 60213 was launched in 2008 and lasted until 2016 (8 years)
The CS3 / CS3+ were launched in 2016 and could last until 2024 (8 years)

Yes there are influencing factors (availability of components, etc but:
- Chances are Märklin is already working on a new generation
- likely date 2024
- warning signs of new generation released soon: when the CS3 will be included in mega start sets

Just my thoughts
Jean

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Offline blid  
#16 Posted : 01 October 2022 16:51:42(UTC)
blid

Sweden   
Joined: 02/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 228
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Yes, you are right. But if you always have a lot of consumers and a current draw close to max (5 amp) the power might be turned off before some serious dammage. According to Marklin the 60101 is for OneGauge.
OneGauge Marklin and MTH, ESU ECoS 2.1 on LGB tracks. MTH 3-rail 0-gauge, DCS on GarGraves tracks. Z: Rokuhan tracks, analog or DCC+TC Gold.
Offline Eurobahnfan  
#17 Posted : 01 October 2022 17:03:03(UTC)
Eurobahnfan

United States   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 407
Location: Stockton, CA
I’m not too concerned about a CS4 potentially coming along soon… my IPad is 8 years old and still going strong 😉. Even if I build a newer, larger layout, I think the CS3 will serve my needs for many years. BTW: I chose the CS3 rather than the CS3+ as it seemed a better fit.
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#18 Posted : 01 October 2022 17:19:36(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,084
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: blid Go to Quoted Post
Yes, you are right. But if you always have a lot of consumers and a current draw close to max (5 amp) the power might be turned off before some serious dammage. According to Marklin the 60101 is for OneGauge.

Yes, yes. This topic has been covered to death already:
- yes Märklin advises to set to 60W (3A) all boosters
- yes, functioning with 5 A is very safe even for HO (Some competitors to Märklin offers 8 A modules)

BUT
- yes the answer-back signal from MFX locos is weaker because on an increased number of Märklin locos on the same circuit. No big deal, you may have to register new locos on the programming track. This is no problem.
- yes many signals cannot stand 5 A but EVEN 3 A are too much (Märklin dixit, read the Märklin documentation). I use NO insulated sections thanks to Rocrail.
- yes Märklin prefers selling more boosters (60175) and their power supply (60041)
- yes Märklin prefers not to be involved with any {legal} side effects on high currents (5A) on flimsy wirings on some layouts

I am using a 60101 power supply since 10 years and never observed anything adverse on tracks, wheels
It has to be said that the overcurrent detection is working just great never leaving the high currents destroy anything
Just my 2 cents worth

Jean

PS I am a French Engineer in Linear and digital electronics, having exported my designs to the USA, Canada, China, etc
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Offline Copenhagen  
#19 Posted : 01 October 2022 17:19:45(UTC)
Copenhagen


Joined: 23/04/2019(UTC)
Posts: 369
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
If it hasn't been mentioned; if you get a CS3 your Mobile Station can be connected to it as a slave.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#20 Posted : 01 October 2022 17:32:23(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,082
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
The 3's may have a slightly better processor.


The cs3 definitely has a better processor - it is a quad core processor where the cs2 has a single core processor. This is a major reason why the cs3 is so much faster than a cs2.

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Offline mvd71  
#21 Posted : 03 October 2022 06:41:04(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,709
Location: Auckland,
I’ve had all the versions of central station, and if something happened to my current cs3, I think I would upgrade to a 6021
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Offline Eurobahnfan  
#22 Posted : 03 October 2022 07:13:26(UTC)
Eurobahnfan

United States   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 407
Location: Stockton, CA
I still have my 6021… and don’t intend to part with it. When all else fails, I know it will still be there for me 😉. (Looking forward to my CS3 just the same)
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Offline marklinist5999  
#23 Posted : 03 October 2022 16:31:59(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,075
Location: Michigan, Troy
I still have my 6021 as well! The large white transformer I got with it (no speed knob) that I though had fried wasn't. I opened it up to test the resistors, and fuse, and a wire to the board had worked loose from it's solder point. Easy fix.
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