 Joined: 22/11/2019(UTC) Posts: 48 Location: Kona, Hawaii
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I'm looking for suggestions regarding the best Marklin Steam Loco that is able to pull the longest consists. I have an 88012 that I use to haul my "Orient Express" and I really like the combo. Problem is I max out at 5 carriages before the Loco starts slipping. I also have an 8890, which is the same 4-6-2 wheel arrangement, but it can easily haul 6 or even 7 carriages. I realize what is happening is that the 8890 is quite a bit heavier than the 88012, so of course it has more traction and can pull more without slipping. Any suggestions on the best Marklin Steam Loco hauler? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!! Thanks! 88012  8890  Here is my 88012 hauling my "Orient Express' consist of 5 carriages. Here is my 8890 hauling my "Orient Express' consist of 6 carriages.
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Joined: 02/10/2013(UTC) Posts: 843 Location: West Texas
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Hello, great locomotives.
The problem associated with the steamers you have is the coal tender which adds to the number of wagons which must be pulled. Most also lack the weight needed.
If you don’t mind the tank locomotives, they will pull many more wagons. Careful comparison by members of this forum have established the best puller is the BR 94, but I will let Chris tell you about this one. That is Marklin model 88942 or other similar models.
I don’t have one, and when I find one, it is very expensive. Most good things are, I guess. I haven’t given up hope of adding one to my collection.
If you want a decent steamer which can pull many wagons, consider a tank locomotive, the absence of a coal tender makes a big difference.
Best wishes, take good care.
Dwight
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 Joined: 23/05/2021(UTC) Posts: 252 Location: England, Guildford
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I found that the Gt 2 4x4 class 96 Mallet was the strongest puller. There are four versions of this heavy freight steamer, 88291 is an example.
Of course, it is almost like two separate locos which accounts for its ability to haul up gradients.
I haven’t got a cast bronze loco but I wonder if they are heavy enough to pull exceptionally.
ChrisG
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Joined: 02/10/2013(UTC) Posts: 843 Location: West Texas
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Hello, yes I forgot about that one.
I have heard it cannot be used with catenary since it swings wide on turns. This is another expensive model, and hard to find. I like it though.
Take good care
Dwight
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Joined: 09/10/2015(UTC) Posts: 581 Location: England, Cambridge
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Originally Posted by: Zme  If you don’t mind the tank locomotives, they will pull many more wagons. Careful comparison by members of this forum have established the best puller is the BR 94, but I will let Chris tell you about this one. That is Marklin model 88942 or other similar models. As Dwight says, I am a huge fan of 88942 and the variations thereof. It's a really smooth runner and pulls like a champ. On may main layout it will pull 6 or more 8730/8731 bogie coaches up the 2% gradients without any problems. I tried recently on my new layout (also 2% gradients) and it did less well with 8720/8721 style bogie coaches - I think four or five was its limit - but I have to say I didn't really test rigorously. There seem to be a number of factors that affect pulling power, and I don't have an exact equation, but the important things seem to be : - Weight - not surprisingly the heavier the locomotive the better - Pony trucks - Add drag and also, because they're sprung, subtract from the effective weight bearing on the driven wheels. The fewer you have, the better - Centre of gravity - I've not got far with this, but it's common for a locomotive to pull uphill more in one direction than the other. Probably not a problem if your layout is all on the flat. - Tenders - I don't have any tender locomotives, but as far as I can see they only add dead weight. I have it in my mind that the wheels are mounted differently to most trucks/coaches and don't run as freely, but I may be wrong on that point. I'm sure someone who knows better will enlighten us both. So, the formula for a steamer that has good haulage would be a tank loco that has some weight and and no pony trucks. 88942 fits that description fairly well and my experience is that it performs excellently! Hope this is of help Chris
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Joined: 22/11/2019(UTC) Posts: 48 Location: Kona, Hawaii
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Thanks for all the great responses!! As far as using a Tank Locomotive I can understand why and how it can be a better hauler. And for a freight consist it would make a lot of sense. But remember I'm looking at a Locomotive to front the illustrious "Orient Express". It needs to be massive and glorious!! That is why I chose to use either the massive and unique 8890 or the very detailed and beautiful 88012. Both of these Locos would also be prototypically correct for hauling the Nostalgie Istanbul Orient Express as a "special" train during the late 1970's. How about the different variants of the BR50 that Marklin has in Z scale? How good are the BR50s in hauling? We have the original 8884, the more detailed 88842 & 88843, and the new yet to be released 88846 which looks really nice with its new tooling and all brass body. What other BR50 variants does Marklin produce? Any discussion on the BR50s or possibly other similar Locos would be appreciated. Thanks!! 88846  8884  88842 
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 1 user liked this useful post by Jags
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Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,480 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
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All those Br50s you show have cab tenders, which I expect would be kept for goods trains. The Br50 in general, is a goods loco, and wouldn't normally be requested to haul a passenger train on a main line.
But for your problem, I would first look at having a regular maintenance schedule for your coaches to ensure the axles are properly lubricated. It makes a big difference to the rolling resistance of stock, and I see no mention of this even being investigated to improve matters.
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Joined: 22/11/2019(UTC) Posts: 48 Location: Kona, Hawaii
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Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan All those Br50s you show have cab tenders, which I expect would be kept for goods trains. The Br50 in general, is a goods loco, and wouldn't normally be requested to haul a passenger train on a main line.
But for your problem, I would first look at having a regular maintenance schedule for your coaches to ensure the axles are properly lubricated. It makes a big difference to the rolling resistance of stock, and I see no mention of this even being investigated to improve matters.
Well for my scenario regarding the use of Steam Locomotives for the Nostalgie Istanbul Orient Express, things are a bit different. The time period for my layout is about 1980. And of course, by 1980 there were pretty much no Steam Locomotives in standard service use. The Nostalgie Istanbul Orient Express began service in the late 1970's as a "Tourist Train". Most of the time it would be hauled between cities with the normal Diesel and Electric Locos of the time. However, it would also be hauled by whatever Steam Locomotive was available in whatever city it may be at for short special runs and also photo ops. So, for the Nostalgie Istanbul Orient Express, it would be quite common to see it being pulled by either Freight or Express Steam Locomotives. And these would usually be "Museum" Locomotives. They used whatever was available as long as it looked good! So using a BR50 to haul the Nostalgie Istanbul Orient Express in 1980 would not be out of place or unusual. Like I've already mentioned, my 88012 can haul 5 carriages with no problem. My 8890 can do 6. This is shown in the videos I posted. I would like to have a Steam Loco that would be able to haul 7 carriages as that would allow me to put together a proper consist as shown in this photo:  Ultimately my Nostalgie Istanbul Orient Express should actually have 9 carriages. I know that there will be no Steam Loco that will be able to haul that long of a consist. Even my big Diesel Locos can't do that many carriages. What I will do when I want to run the 9 carriage consist is to use a double BR218 Loco combo. This is prototypical for the Nostalgie Istanbul Orient Express as is shown here:  I have tested this, and it works great and looks even better!!  As far as maintaining my rolling stock, I do that all the time. If I was having trouble there, I wouldn't be able to haul the consists that I already do. I do have a good maintenance schedule already in place. So once again I would like to hear back from BR50 Steam Locomotive owners how well they can haul. I'm hoping that they can handle the 7 carriages I would like to be pulling. Thanks!!
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1 user liked this useful post by Jags
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Joined: 02/10/2013(UTC) Posts: 843 Location: West Texas
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Hello.
I believe there is a tank locomotive which has the streamline panels but don’t know the number right off. I don’t know if this was used to pull the orient express.
While the Br50 looks impressive with all the drive wheels I doubt it will do that well. I have a Br55, br 18 and 03, but they just don’t perform that well. Maybe with a traction tire it may improve things.
I like the double traction 216 or 218. Definitely will pull.
Take good care
Dwight
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Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,480 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
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Originally Posted by: Zme Hello.
I believe there is a tank locomotive which has the streamline panels but don’t know the number right off. I don’t know if this was used to pull the orient express.
Sounds like you are thinking of the Henschel-Wegmann Br61 loco. I don't believe it would have hauled the Orient Express train at all while streamlined, as they were dedicated to the Henschel Wegmann train between the wars. I can't recall if marklin did a Henschel-Wegmann train in Z.
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Joined: 22/11/2019(UTC) Posts: 48 Location: Kona, Hawaii
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Originally Posted by: Zme Hello.
I believe there is a tank locomotive which has the streamline panels but don’t know the number right off. I don’t know if this was used to pull the orient express.
While the Br50 looks impressive with all the drive wheels I doubt it will do that well. I have a Br55, br 18 and 03, but they just don’t perform that well. Maybe with a traction tire it may improve things.
I like the double traction 216 or 218. Definitely will pull.
Take good care
Dwight Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Originally Posted by: Zme Hello.
I believe there is a tank locomotive which has the streamline panels but don’t know the number right off. I don’t know if this was used to pull the orient express.
Sounds like you are thinking of the Henschel-Wegmann Br61 loco. I don't believe it would have hauled the Orient Express train at all while streamlined, as they were dedicated to the Henschel Wegmann train between the wars. I can't recall if marklin did a Henschel-Wegmann train in Z. I believe you both are thinking of the Marklin 88610. German Federal Railroad (DB) class 61 express tank locomotive with streamlining. https://www.maerklin.de/...etails/article/88610/105
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Joined: 02/10/2013(UTC) Posts: 843 Location: West Texas
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Hello, you are right, thanks.
I just located a set also (81436) and the description mentions it only had limited runs between Berlin and Dresden and other routes before and after the war.
The set includes the locomotive and four passenger wagon. I wonder how it does pulling this train.
Thanks for remembering this. Some of the later streamlined models were switched to a plastic shell, rather than the earlier all metal ones.
Take good care. This might sound like a bad suggestion, but a couple of the older 216 (8874) or 218 models together, would pull your entire collection. This might be time period correct and a common model used for many purposes.
Dwight
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Joined: 22/11/2019(UTC) Posts: 48 Location: Kona, Hawaii
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Originally Posted by: Zme Hello, you are right, thanks.
I just located a set also (81436) and the description mentions it only had limited runs between Berlin and Dresden and other routes before and after the war.
The set includes the locomotive and four passenger wagon. I wonder how it does pulling this train.
Thanks for remembering this. Some of the later streamlined models were switched to a plastic shell, rather than the earlier all metal ones.
Take good care. This might sound like a bad suggestion, but a couple of the older 216 (8874) or 218 models together, would pull your entire collection. This might be time period correct and a common model used for many purposes.
Dwight Here is a "Z Train Weekly" article on the 81436 set: https://ztrainsweekly.co...61-001-henschel-wegmann/ As far as hauling capabilities are concerned, I do own quite a few different Marklin Z Locomotives and I have tested most of them in hauling passenger consists. All the Locomotives can haul 4 passenger carriages with no problem. 5 is doable with all the Locos but the 4-6-2 Steam Locos do start to struggle a bit. The Diesel Locos have no problem with 5 carriages. My 8890 Steam Loco can also do 5 carriages with no problem, but I believe this is due to the extra weight of that Loco. My 8890 can also do 6 carriages but not 7. The Diesel Locos can all handle 6 carriages, but some do start having a bit of trouble with 6. Once you get up to 7 carriages you need one of the bigger diesel Locos like the Ludmilla or V300 to handle that consist size. At this point you need to double up the locos to be able to do 8 or 9 carriages. And even doubled up it starts to get difficult again once you get up to 10 carriages. Freight cars are a different story. I believe the shorter length of those cars makes a difference. As you can see in my video my Ludmilla can haul 13 container cars. Of course, the actual capability of any Loco you may have is dependent on the specifications and condition of that specific Locomotive. So, take these numbers as a general guideline. If anyone has experienced different numbers with their Locos please share your experiences so that we can better get a grasp of what the different model Locos can actually do. Thanks!
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Joined: 02/10/2013(UTC) Posts: 843 Location: West Texas
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Hello, I think this topic has been covered in previous posts.
You might be able to search for them. There was great information in the posts.
Thanks
Dwight
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Joined: 22/11/2019(UTC) Posts: 48 Location: Kona, Hawaii
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Originally Posted by: Zme Hello, I think this topic has been covered in previous posts.
You might be able to search for them. There was great information in the posts.
Thanks
Dwight Yes, I have been searching all kinds of terms and haven't found anything. That is why I started this thread. Thanks!
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Joined: 22/11/2019(UTC) Posts: 48 Location: Kona, Hawaii
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For those of you that may be interested. Here is a series of videos showing various BR50s and other Freight Locos hauling the Nostalgie Istanbul Orient Express in the later 1990's. Like I said, as a Tourist Train they would use whatever Steam Locomotives were available. I also found a photo of a BR95 Tank Locomotive hauling the Nostalgie Istanbul Orient Express in May 1982. 
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1 user liked this useful post by Jags
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 Joined: 12/05/2021(UTC) Posts: 152 Location: Jakarta Raya, Jakarta
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Originally Posted by: Jags I'm looking for suggestions regarding the best Marklin Steam Loco that is able to pull the longest consists. I have an 88012 that I use to haul my "Orient Express" and I really like the combo. Problem is I max out at 5 carriages before the Loco starts slipping. I also have an 8890, which is the same 4-6-2 wheel arrangement, but it can easily haul 6 or even 7 carriages.
I realize what is happening is that the 8890 is quite a bit heavier than the 88012, so of course it has more traction and can pull more without slipping.
Any suggestions on the best Marklin Steam Loco hauler? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!
Thanks!
If you can find 8892 with its original 3-pole motor, then you'll have yourself a good steam loco hauler. CMIIW, but my observation of that engine was that it could pull my whole rolling stock back then (5 4-axle and 6 2-axle cars). My 8892's motor has been replaced with a 5-pole one since then, and it couldn't do the same job as before. So, 8892 with 3-pole motor is another option for your search. |
Oka aka W. Kapriandi
Märklin Z scale (mini-club) purist but not a modeler!
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Joined: 23/05/2021(UTC) Posts: 252 Location: England, Guildford
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Did they expect the (full size) class 61 to haul in either direction, ie without the need to turn ready for return trip?
Sadly the Z gauge one only has a coupling hook at one end, one of my good intentions is to attach a long Märklin coupling to the front bogie of mine - Rokuhan do long ones.
ChrisG
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 Joined: 20/02/2017(UTC) Posts: 298 Location: Flanders!
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Originally Posted by: Mman Did they expect the (full size) class 61 to haul in either direction, ie without the need to turn ready for return trip?
Sadly the Z gauge one only has a coupling hook at one end, one of my good intentions is to attach a long Märklin coupling to the front bogie of mine - Rokuhan do long ones.
ChrisG Yes that loco run both ways. I have the set and the loco in black. They are quite heavy. Have yet to test hauling with it!!!
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Joined: 20/02/2017(UTC) Posts: 298 Location: Flanders!
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"Because it was planned to run the train in shuttle services to a tight time schedule, it was necessary that the engine could run at top speed in both directions. This resulted in a tank locomotive rather than the tender locomotive design otherwise used for long-distance high-speed links. In order to be able to attain the high running performance aimed at, locomotive and coaches were designed to be especially light, albeit the coal and water supplies had still to be sufficient for a one-way trip on the planned route."
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Joined: 02/10/2013(UTC) Posts: 843 Location: West Texas
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Hello, hope all is well.
I don’t know if the Class 61 or 96 were used on the orient express, but it would be interesting to hear how strong these locomotives are in pulling wagons. I have tried the Br78 and 85, but have found the Br 74, gram for gram, a respectable puller for 2 axle wagons. The three or four axle wagons are another story. It just lacks the weight needed on my layout with a hill. The 78 and 85 have more weight but it is spread out over more axles and front and rear pilot trucks
Since the orient express was created in 1883, does anyone know if two axle wagons were used? I don’t think the Br 95 has been modeled by Marklin yet. It is similar to the 86 or 85.
Take good care.
Dwight
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Joined: 22/11/2019(UTC) Posts: 48 Location: Kona, Hawaii
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Originally Posted by: Zme Hello, hope all is well.
I don’t know if the Class 61 or 96 were used on the orient express, but it would be interesting to hear how strong these locomotives are in pulling wagons. I have tried the Br78 and 85, but have found the Br 74, gram for gram, a respectable puller for 2 axle wagons. The three or four axle wagons are another story. It just lacks the weight needed on my layout with a hill. The 78 and 85 have more weight but it is spread out over more axles and front and rear pilot trucks
Since the orient express was created in 1883, does anyone know if two axle wagons were used? I don’t think the Br 95 has been modeled by Marklin yet. It is similar to the 86 or 85.
Take good care.
Dwight The Orient Express I am referring to is the Nostalgie Istanbul Orient Express which provided service in the 1980's as a "tourist train". All sorts of Locos were used to haul that train. Here is a video from 1985 showing the Nostalgie Istanbul Orient Express being hauled by a "triple header". Two class 52s and a class 93!! It's quite impressive!!
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2 users liked this useful post by Jags
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Joined: 23/05/2021(UTC) Posts: 252 Location: England, Guildford
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Stirring stuff, but what are they burning in the firebox - old oily rags?
ChrisG
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Joined: 20/02/2017(UTC) Posts: 298 Location: Flanders!
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Originally Posted by: Mman Stirring stuff, but what are they burning in the firebox - old oily rags?
ChrisG The darker the smoke, the less efficient it is running. That video is mental.... :o
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Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC) Posts: 8,480 Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
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Originally Posted by: parakiet Originally Posted by: Mman Stirring stuff, but what are they burning in the firebox - old oily rags?
ChrisG The darker the smoke, the less efficient it is running. That video is mental.... :o They are certainly working hard ... I believe the Nostalgic Orient Express had such demand for tickets that they always ran maximum length 15 car consists. I have a book on the restoration of the coaches that will look out and see if some of the pictures can be reproduced.
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Joined: 20/02/2017(UTC) Posts: 298 Location: Flanders!
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Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan
They are certainly working hard ... I believe the Nostalgic Orient Express had such demand for tickets that they always ran maximum length 15 car consists. I have a book on the restoration of the coaches that will look out and see if some of the pictures can be reproduced.
Yes, but when the smoke is black they blow out unburned fuel. So it's a bad sign. When all the fuel is burned they have more heat, more steam and more power. Ofcourse, it is a dying art..
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