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Offline Frostie  
#1 Posted : 23 February 2009 01:21:33(UTC)
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Frostie

United States   
Joined: 08/08/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,614
Location: Birmingham,Alabama
I am running a Kaiser set of coaches which is very heavy on my layout. However, I must run this set - beautiful.

Layout has 4% grade with Woodland scenics set 8 feet = 4 inches of rise. Elevation is also twisty

The S10 2681 (decoder ???) Locomotive needs to have power increase to full power at start of incline followed by decrease after top of hill is reached.

Then I run with a Brawa S2/6 (lokpilot 3.5) and no speed adjustment necessary.

Is the big difference going to be the Decoder ??

I should be receiving the Brawa S9 within a week or two, and am surious as to how it will pull.
Train Collection Insured by "Croc's" with "Big Boys" as Backup"
CS/MS Digital Era 1/2
Apple Man iPhone / Macbook Pro / iPad - the end of the windows PC occurred on April 4, 2010.
Love those Era 1 Tank Locomotives - the more the merrier.

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Offline 7gauges  
#2 Posted : 23 February 2009 01:29:29(UTC)
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7gauges

Canada   
Joined: 10/12/2002(UTC)
Posts: 329
Maerklin had a fix, which didn't involve the decoder or tyres - it was to put a a form fitted lead weight under the cab roof of the engine. That is to say that is what I was offered - I put some lead wheel weights for automotive tyres in the Boiler and solved the problem that way. Hauls pretty well now - and that's including the much newer and heavier "Salonwagen fuer die Kaiserin" 43620.

http://cgi.ebay.de/M%E4-...MSfp=TL090221184005r9091 .
Collecting / Fixing and Running trains since 1966.
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Offline mvd71  
#3 Posted : 23 February 2009 07:13:53(UTC)
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mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,929
Location: Auckland,
This sounds like the problem is with the decoder, if it has a 6080 type decoder then there will be no load compensation and any increase/ decrease in load results in a change of speed.
The scenario you describe, of a heavy load on an incline requiring full power sounds like a 6080 decoder(or equivilant). The lokpilot decoder has load compensation, hence the reason it has no problems.

If you fit a lokpilot or another marklin 609* type decoder it should fix the problem.

Cheers...

Mike.
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Offline Frostie  
#4 Posted : 23 February 2009 13:57:34(UTC)
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Frostie

United States   
Joined: 08/08/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,614
Location: Birmingham,Alabama
That is what I thought, but I wanted some confirmation.
Train Collection Insured by "Croc's" with "Big Boys" as Backup"
CS/MS Digital Era 1/2
Apple Man iPhone / Macbook Pro / iPad - the end of the windows PC occurred on April 4, 2010.
Love those Era 1 Tank Locomotives - the more the merrier.

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Offline RayF  
#5 Posted : 23 February 2009 15:11:51(UTC)
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RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,870
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
The 2681 already has a 6090 decoder which is load regulated.

This type of loco is known to suffer from traction problems associated with the centre of gravity. I would try the extra weight in the cab before changing the decoder.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline jvuye  
#6 Posted : 23 February 2009 15:21:02(UTC)
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jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,883
Location: South Western France
I agree with Ray.
4% may be a tough order for that loco and its heavy train though...
The motor in the S10 is pretty small and has limited torque and the gearing ratio is a bit off (too fast) in my humble opinion.
So mine is basically a shelf "Queen" for an "Emperor"'s train...(ggl)
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline perz  
#7 Posted : 23 February 2009 20:30:12(UTC)
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perz

Sweden   
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,578
Location: Sweden
I can confirm the implicit statement from Lutz: The original 2681 S10 does not have a regulated decoder. I don't have this model but it is a well known limitation with this model and a number of other 37xxx models from that time.
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Offline RayF  
#8 Posted : 23 February 2009 22:12:42(UTC)
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RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,870
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
You learn something new every day. Is the decoder not a 6090? The whole point of the 6090 over the earlier 6080 was the load regulation in the 6090. Perhaps the early models with a Faulhaber motor could not be made to work with a 6090 so they used a "one-off" decoder instead?

I would be interested in further details if anyone knows the history of this model.

Ray
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline perz  
#9 Posted : 23 February 2009 22:37:45(UTC)
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perz

Sweden   
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,578
Location: Sweden
Here is a pair of links with further information:

http://home.arcor.de/dr.koenig/digital/efauli.htm
http://www.bogobit.de/decoder/dectype.html

Search for "2681" in the second one to find the relevant section.

Personally, my experience with these "regulated" but not regulated decoders is from the 37645 Tegernsee MaK diesel, which has a similar decoder and motor concept.

However, in the S10 it is not only the decoder but also the gear and the weight that cause the problem, if I got it right from the other posts here.
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Offline RayF  
#10 Posted : 24 February 2009 00:13:20(UTC)
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RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,870
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Thanks, Per. It seems to me that Marklin had trouble with providing regulation for the small faulhaber type motors until they brought out the 60905 variant. I will bear it in mind when I look at these types of models.

Ray
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline H0  
#11 Posted : 24 February 2009 00:22:01(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,451
Location: DE-NW
The old M* catalogues differentiate between "adjustable" and "regulated" propulsion.
The MaK loco mentioned above is one example of "adjustable" propulsion.
Some locos are regulated even though the catalogue reads "adjustable".

The 6090 decoder has load regulation - at least with M* 5pole motors.

The first batch of 37190 was "adjustable", the second batch was "regulated".
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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