Any feedback on Busch infrared sensor ?

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French_Fabrice		#1 Posted : 09 April 2022 20:50:43(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,489 Location: Lyon, France		Hello Markliners, Does anyone have any feedback on infrared sensor made by Busch, item #5720 (or #5962) ? https://www.busch-model.info/000005720.4 I've found a wiring diagram at LDT http://www.ldt-infocente...sbeispiele/page_1936.pdf , and I'm very tempted to use some, essentially when doing changes that were not in the layout plan... Any advice is welcome. Cheers Fabrice

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JohnjeanB		#2 Posted : 09 April 2022 23:10:20(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 3,559 Location: Paris, France		Hi Fabrice Sorry I will not answer directly your question. I have used IR emitter diodes and transistors with components found on ebay for well under 5 € The IR emitter is powered with a 1 kOhm resistor in series The IR receiver (a transistor in a regular 5 mm diode package) plugged directly to a Märklin 60881. I use it to detect couplings which other sensors can't and it operates the decoupler rail at my mini hump yard Here it is in operation . The emitter is down pointing upwards and a bit of black straw (McDonalds) while the transistor is on a little mast pointing downwards in an oblique way It works very fine but you are is high impedance so you may want to have a capacitor in parallel for noise reduction. I made a test for disturbances from ambient light: none UNLESS you bring a powerful LED lamp towards the receiver. The light is around 900 nM I think. Here is a detail Cheers Jean
		My layout videos latest vid marshalling yard My Layout

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Danlake		#3 Posted : 10 April 2022 09:31:15(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,571		Hi Fabrice, I have been using Azatrax sensors for years with good success and very affordable. As reliable as contact tracks. http://www.azatrax.com/i...odel-train-detector.html Best Regards Lasse
		Digital 11m2 layout / C (M&K) tracks / Era IV / CS3 60226 / Train Controller Gold 9 with 4D sound. Mainly Danish and German Locomotives.

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French_Fabrice		#4 Posted : 10 April 2022 17:02:20(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,489 Location: Lyon, France		Hello, Thank you for your inputs. I'm going to try to setup some. I'll report here. Cheers Fabrice


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French_Fabrice		#5 Posted : 18 April 2022 21:43:05(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,489 Location: Lyon, France		Hello Friends, Here is the feedback of the Busch Infrared sensors (5720 and 5962): It works absolutely fine ! Except I had some trouble at the beginning of the setup: -The first emitter / receiver didn't work at all ??? -After many tries, I used a lamp directed to the receiver, and miracle, the sensor on Rocrail was lit -My first conclusion, was probably the emitter was defective or the IR beam was too small -As I have also the bigger sensors (5962) available, I installed a pair of them to replace the small sensors... and exactly same result, nothing ! -And finally, I decided to swap the 2 wires connected to the emitter... and guess what: it works ! -Then I reinserted the small pair of IR sensors, swapped the power on the emitter, and it worked like a charm Just a few minutes ago, I've found the explanation: -the 16V AC power coming from the big accessory transfo is connected to 4 Viessmann rectifiers 5215, at various places of the layout. Each rectifier provides around 22V DC -many Viessman LED lights are already connected to the rectifier, and correctly wired and never had trouble and respecting the color code (Yellow and brown INPUT become respectively green(+) and white(-) OUTPUT - my own color code) -except when reading (again) the 5215 doc, it is clearly stated that the green and white have the polarity inverted, i.e. the + is white and - is green... Final explanation ! As a result, the schema provided by LDT is correct regarding the emitter (and of course the receiver connected to a RM88). I've put a 1K resistor on the emitter, and no issue. End of the story ! 3 pictures: First small set of 5720 IR sensors. They stay on the layout with a bit of yellow glue pad 2nd set of sensors, with same trick Overview of the new siding track connected to the TT. Now I plan to add a motorized water crane Viessman 5132 besides this track. That will be a bit difficult to drill because there are many wires below... Follow-up with water crane in the Trossingen III thread, I hope before the end of month Cheers Fabrice

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MHJ87		#6 Posted : 19 April 2022 08:02:16(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 02/03/2020(UTC) Posts: 50 Location: Hunter Valley		Hi all I have been reading this thread with some interest, as I can see some applications for the technology, particularly where a contact track may not be optimal due to space constraints. I have looked at the Asatrax and the Busch products online and understand how they work when linked directly to signals or accessories. What has eluded me is how to make them talk to the CS3+ and ultimately Rocrail. In post 2 from Jean that he has them connected directly to a 60881 to operate the uncoupler and I understand that he operates his layout with Rocrail. Also, I understand Fabrice uses Rocrail as it is mentioned in post number 5 when running his trial of the sensors and links them through an RM88. What I would like is to see a wiring diagram showing all of the components and how they are interconnected. Unfortunately, I am not finding the material from the suppliers overly user friendly. Kind Regards Michael


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French_Fabrice		#7 Posted : 19 April 2022 09:02:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/05/2011(UTC) Posts: 1,489 Location: Lyon, France		Hello Michael, Look at post #1 and pick the wiring diagram from LDT, it is correct. I think you can substitute the LDT-RM88 by a Marklin 60881. Plug the green wire of the receiver in the "T" input, and the other wire in any input 1 to 16. About the resistor computation for the emitter, the specs from Busch are IMAX=20ma, and Voltage drop = 2.3V. Thus, the formula to compute the resistor value is R=(Your DC Voltage - 2.3)/0.02 . Pick the fist normalized value ABOVE resistor value computed. Example: if your DC voltage is 12 V, then the resistor value is (12-2.3)/0.02 = 485 Ohms. The next normalized value is 560 Ohms, so pick this one . Last word: in the LDT doc, it is stated that the occupancy report is inverted, i.e. the sensor is ON when nothing crosses the beam. You'll have to manage it with your software (most of them allow you to invert the signal). If you don't use a dedicated software like Rocrail, Railroad&Co or Itrain or any other, I don't know if the CS2/CS3 is able to trigger an event on the descending flank of the signal (something crosses the beam) ? Cheers Fabrice


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MHJ87		#8 Posted : 20 April 2022 00:58:02(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 02/03/2020(UTC) Posts: 50 Location: Hunter Valley		Thank you Fabrice After looking at the wiring diagram again and reading you comments the missing pieces fell into place. I should be able to move on and run some tests soon. Kind Regards Michael


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