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Offline JDennis  
#1 Posted : 20 January 2022 21:17:53(UTC)
JDennis

United States   
Joined: 04/11/2017(UTC)
Posts: 89
Location: Minnesota
As some of you might know, I'm just getting going on converting my whole system to digital. Have converted half dozen or so locos with fairly good but not always perfect success. However, quickly coming to the point I need to be able to tweak and program the decoders. Tried searching the forum past posts looking for this info but didn't find what I was seeking. So, bunch of probably dumb questions follow:

First is the setup needed to do this work. I see the Marklin 60971 programming tool, which then can be plugged into your PC using the downloadable software?

Works for many Marklin decoders, but how about ESU?

Am I correct that the decoder has to be out of the loco to do this?

Is it possible to program the decoder in the loco with the unit on the track using a CS or MS unit?

I read about using a "programming track," which I take to mean a short track section connected to a CS or MS unit. Is that right? Is it possible to connect the programming track to the pc somehow and use the Marklin programming software?

Is there a good guide somewhere that describes a bit better the actual process of doing the programming, the meaning of the various CV values, how to get it to do what you want, etc.?

If I can get a better picture of this stuff, then I'll drive you guys crazy with some more specific questions later. Thanks in advance.

Dennis
Offline JohnjeanB  
#2 Posted : 20 January 2022 22:07:59(UTC)
JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,015
Location: Paris, France
Hi Dennis

The are no dumb questions Dennis we all began sometime.
Originally Posted by: JDennis Go to Quoted Post

First is the setup needed to do this work. I see the Marklin 60971 programming tool, which then can be plugged into your PC using the downloadable software?

One possibility is to use a CS2 or CS3 and the other is to use a Märklin Loco programmer 60982. This is a USB dongle that plugs on your computer is association with a free s/w "mDecoderTool3" you may download from the Märklin website. All this works only with Märklin decoders
For both solutions Märklin offers a sound database (you enter the model number of the loco and you get a decoder project including sounds, outputs
Originally Posted by: JDennis Go to Quoted Post

Works for many Marklin decoders, but how about ESU?

You must purchase an ESU LokProgrammer 53451 and a power supply
Originally Posted by: JDennis Go to Quoted Post

Am I correct that the decoder has to be out of the loco to do this?

With Märklin the decoder may remain inside when you use a CS2 or CS3 to program from the programming track. With both Märklin and ESU lokprogrammers you need to remove the decoder from the loco. Programming is faster in this case (5 mn instead of 40 mn
Originally Posted by: JDennis Go to Quoted Post

Is it possible to program the decoder in the loco with the unit on the track using a CS or MS unit?

Yes with a CS2 or CS3 unit. With an MS2 you may change parameters but not fully reprogram Sounds, firmware, etc
Programming is only one loco at a time. Never connect the programming track with the main track. Programming is a delicate process that CANNOT BE interrupted.
Originally Posted by: JDennis Go to Quoted Post

I read about using a "programming track," which I take to mean a short track section connected to a CS or MS unit. Is that right? Is it possible to connect the programming track to the pc somehow and use the Marklin programming software?


Yes a couple of rails connected to the programming output are enough. Better have buffers on both ends in case the loco starts full speed. No programming trck with an MS2
Originally Posted by: JDennis Go to Quoted Post

Is there a good guide somewhere that describes a bit better the actual process of doing the programming, the meaning of the various CV values, how to get it to do what you want, etc.?
If I can get a better picture of this stuff, then I'll drive you guys crazy with some more specific questions later. Thanks in advance.

There is the big Märklin book on using a CS3
You have plenty of videos in English and German to show how it is done.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlXlx4Qz34A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3RT0pEtu_c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZ45SGR2gZM
I hope this helps
Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
hump yard
Offline pederbc  
#3 Posted : 20 January 2022 22:28:29(UTC)
pederbc

Sweden   
Joined: 11/06/2007(UTC)
Posts: 139
Location: Eslöv, Sweden
You do NOT need to remove the Decoder from the engine when using the ESU programmer!

Peder
Offline JDennis  
#4 Posted : 20 January 2022 23:01:16(UTC)
JDennis

United States   
Joined: 04/11/2017(UTC)
Posts: 89
Location: Minnesota
That is great info, guys. Thanks so much for the replies. Great answers and hopefully points me in the right direction on some of this stuff. Jean, those videos are fantastic, especially the RJF one. (He's always a wealth of info.) That will take more than a few minutes of study. The other two are a little more challenging, since my sprichst-ing of du deutsch is pretty well limited to "wie geht's" and "noch ein bier." But one can still pick up a lot from watching. BigGrin
Offline JDennis  
#5 Posted : 21 January 2022 00:32:01(UTC)
JDennis

United States   
Joined: 04/11/2017(UTC)
Posts: 89
Location: Minnesota
OK, so been reading a bunch more stuff and trying to put a few more of the pieces together. If you'll bear with me for a moment, let me describe a particular issue I'm having to see if I'm starting to see through a bit of the fog:

Have a BR103 TEE loco in which I've upgraded the motor and installed a 60977 decoder. The dealer was to have installed the sound files for that loco. In addition to the basic stuff, this loco has a single light midships (the cab light). (My lights are LED that are isolated from the chassis.) Soooo ... when I wired it up, I took the Aux1 lead and an orange lead and connected those to the cab light. Now, based on what I read in the 60977 instructions it looks like the Aux1 would normally be mapped to the f1 button, and so figured that f1 would control the cab lights -- but of course, it does not. Furthermore, I would normally expect the f3 button to control the horn/whistle -- which of course, it does not.

Soooo, I'm thinking that a) in the process of reprogramming the sounds for this specific loco, perhaps the dealer "unmapped" those two functions (f1 and f3); and b) regardless of how they got this way, the only way I'm going to get them working correctly is to put this decoder on the 60971 programmer and fix those two things. Or alternatively, is the Mobile Station capable of reprogramming those functions?

Or (just as likely) am I just completely off base on what's going on here???

And again, I thank you in advance for your help.

Dennis
Offline H0  
#6 Posted : 21 January 2022 07:05:28(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 14,525
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: JDennis Go to Quoted Post
Or alternatively, is the Mobile Station capable of reprogramming those functions?
The MS2 has very limited mfx programming capabilities and won't be much help.
You can disable mfx in the MS2 and program the settings using DCC, but that will be very cryptic, especially if you do not know the current settings. Better don't give it a try.
Any Central Station can be used to make the mapping using mfx.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline JDennis  
#7 Posted : 21 January 2022 15:24:50(UTC)
JDennis

United States   
Joined: 04/11/2017(UTC)
Posts: 89
Location: Minnesota
Thanks, Tom. Worked with the MS2 a bit last night and indeed its programming capability is quite limited. Ordering the 60971 this morning. Suspect once I get to work with the MDT programming utility for a bit it will help me understand a lot more about how the data is structured in the decoders and how the whole system works. Ahhh, goodie. Another new adventure!
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